Speaking with Celine Ikeler about her bakery and company: Karma Baker

Today I spoke with Celine Ikeler founder and owner of Karma Baker. Karma Baker is a wonderful little bakeshop that makes only amazing vegan and gluten-free desserts and breads.  After years of creating and developing recipes, she opened Karma Baker, based in a suburb just north of Los Angeles, and after a steadfast local following Karma Baker has now gone national with delivery across the USA. https://Karmabaker.com

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:10] Hi, I'm Patricia. And this is Investigating Vegan Life with Patricia Kathleen. This series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Our inquiry is an effort to examine the variety of industries and lifestyle tenants in the world of Vigen life. To that end, we will cover topics that have revealed themselves as common and integral when exploring veganism. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who like myself, find great value in hearing the expertise and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals, you can find information about myself and my podcast at Patricia Kathleen dot com. Welcome to investigating Vigen Life. Now let's start the conversation. 

 

[00:01:13] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today we are speaking with Celine Eichler. She is the creator and owner of Karma Baker. Welcome, Celine. 

 

[00:01:23] Hi. Thank you so much for having me. 

 

[00:01:25] Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of climb through your shop and everything that you guys offer there for everyone looking to get a hold of Celine or discover more. You can contact her or find out more about her shop on Karma Baker dot com. I'm going to go through a quick bio of Slainte before I start peppering her with questions. But before that, a roadmap for today's podcast and vodcast. For those of you listening and tuning in today, we'll first look at Slainte academic background and professional history to kind of develop a platform for her personal background. And then we'll look at unpacking Karma Baker's history and the origin of the story. And then we'll get into the nuts and bolts of the who, what, when, where, why, how of the business, and then turn to the ethos and the philosophy behind it. And then we will look at goals that simply may have for Karma Baker over the next one to three years. Those are changing dramatically for everyone given the current social and business climate of today. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that Celine may have for those of you looking to get involve patron of her services and store. And also possibly emulate some of her success. A quick bio on Slainte and Karma Baker. She is the original Karma Baker starting about 15 years ago with a desire that everyone should be able to enjoy the bliss that only delicious baked goods can generate. After years of creating and developing recipes, she opened Kofman Baker, based in a suburb just north of Los Angeles. A wonderful little bake shop that only me that makes only amazing vegan and gluten free desserts and breads, no eggs, no dairy and no wheat anywhere in sight. Seline has fast become one of the most successful and influential bakers in Southern California. Now she is offering a wonderful solution for people that are not so lucky to live near Karmah, Baker or one of their many partners. They deliver many of their products to your doorstep without being damaged while maintaining freshness. So if you live in the United States, you can now enjoy the revolution that is Karma Baker and we'll climb through all of those ins and outs and through the services that you offer Silene. But I want to I'm hoping you can start us off with talking about your academic background and early professional life that brought you to the opening Karma Baker. 

 

[00:03:38] Yes, sure. So I started out as an artist. I think a lot of bakers actually are all also artists at heart. I went to art school in San Diego actually, and neighbors. If you and I went right into a career in animation. I worked in animation in Chicago for a little while and then in Los Angeles for about 15 years. I think working on animated movies that the whole digital aspect kind of at the forefront of, you know, when we started using computers at all and especially for digital imaging. So that was really fun. I loved it. It was very creative. And, you know, anything that's innovative and cutting edge, a new and difficult is kind of my thing. So in that day, we were, you know, learning as we went figuring it out as we went creating things to make it work. Right. And now that I look at it, I think it's exactly what I've had to do with the bakery. After my career in animation, I had two kids and ended up finishing my my last movies and my daughter was two and moved out to the suburbs and it just was a mom for. Twelve years I was a home mother baking at home for my kids. No vegan, no allergies in sight really other than my daughter's next door neighbor had a very, very severe allergy to so many things. Wheat, dairy, eggs, soy, certain kinds of fruits and vegetables, all nuts, you know, really, really extreme anaphylactic shock kind of reaction. Yeah. So, you know, scary. Too bake for her. Scary to have her in my kitchen even, you know, that kind of thing. And that opened my mind. My, well, originally opened my heart because I couldn't handle that. She couldn't eat anything. Fine. You know, there was just no food for her. So I started figuring out how to make stuff without eggs and dairy and wheat. Not easy. There's been many before me who have, you know, stumbled into the field over the years. 

 

[00:05:51] But it's definitely a labor of love teaching yourself trial and error, you know, creating out of true necessity, you know, and creating something that wasn't there before to make something else, you know. So that's kind of how I got started. 

 

[00:06:09] It started you off on the trajectory. So once you started baking these things, what was the impetus for kind of switching into? 

 

[00:06:18] You can make things without allergens. It sounds like, you know, an insight of these this little girl. However, there is also like a switch over and like you did you have this gluten free aspect. It wasn't a natural trajectory. Did you just start saying, I can do so much more with so much less? Did you start extracting ingredients because you felt like it? Or was it a goal driven? 

 

[00:06:42] Well, she was allergic to wheat, dairy and eggs, and they were the hardest with baking. So right off the bat, I had, you know, my work cut out for me and Gluten-Free Flours at the time, especially, you know, there were a few mixes, but they didn't have they had the area or they had egg powder or they had nuts or they had been flour. You know, they had something that she couldn't eat. And so that's where that will I'll just make my own blend. Yeah. I don't know why I thought that was a viable option, but it really just, you know, I really had no limits around that. I thought, well, I'll just figure out, you know, there's all these blends. One of them has got to be the right combination that doesn't have some of that other stuff. 

 

[00:07:21] So do you have like of a source that you considered like this, this key source to go to? Because when you start an endeavor like that, it's daunting. Right. Anyone, even people who are really familiar with baking or goods or anything like that, when you start taking away things like flour or getting into flour alternatives from, you know, chickpea to rice to you. 

 

[00:07:41] Then the differences in how they bake and they behave differently and all that you're talking about blends when you start off. Was there a source of like a cookbook or a person or a guide or anything like that? They kind of helped you navigate those early stages. 

 

[00:07:55] I definitely did a lot of searching, you know, Internet searching, looking for blogs. There were people that did a lot of dairy and egg free and then there were people that did gluten free. Nobody was really doing the whole thing, though. You know, that was that was kind of the trick was marrying the two. Because if you're doing gluten free and you have eggs, you're you only have half the battle. You know, the eggs do all of the binding and the lifting and the magic texture. But if you don't have eggs already, that's a little bit tricky and you don't have any lift from gluten, you know. Now you're doing it on your own. So there was one. Erin Mckenna has a check. She has a bakery out in L.A. and I think in New York City. I think with her original, she had a cookbook at the time. And I and I think it was one of the first ones I picked up and was like, what is arrowroot? What is this? 

 

[00:08:49] And so, you know, that her book was probably very helpful in the very beginning of deciphering the different flowers and trying to find, you know, what replaces the bean flour. You know, she and most of her recipes have been flour base, which Sophia or I could not do. So that was a crucial step. 

 

[00:09:11] What brought you to finally? It sounds like you started experimenting and just baking for yourself in a vegan manner. But what brought you to make the leap between is very different to eat vegan and then want to have a vegan business. 

 

[00:09:25] And you were right. It's a different beast. 

 

[00:09:29] What was the final push and when did you launch? Baker OK. 

 

[00:09:34] So I was baking for Sophia out of pleasure. And then I realized that I myself had a runny nose every time I eat. And Sophia's mother's and that's definitely a food allergy. And so we started trying to figure out what it was. You know, maybe it's egg, maybe it's dairy, maybe it's wheat. You know, I had a blood test and that pointed me to five things. Eggs, dairy, all bovine actually is all cow and wheat and not gluten, but wheat. The grain itself and then beans and garlic. So very broad, strange things. And she said, you know, if you get rid of them cold turkey, you might get it back. Your body can learn how to get it back. So I did. I just got rid of all of those. And that's when kind of the baking shift really happened for me, because while I may have been making stuff for Sofia, that was pretty good. I now was the new audience and it needed to be excellent. I don't want to eat a bad cookie. You know, who wants to eat a mediocre cookie? You just want to eat one amazing cookie and be done, you know? So that's when I really kind of upped the production for myself, just really hardcore experimenting and really getting it down. And I created some things that were unbelievable. I couldn't believe I was having such amazing luck. The flour I created lended itself to the vegan aspect of what I was doing. Magically, it was almost like a divine intervention. I just said, you know, I don't know how to do this. So tell me, you know, and I just if I got an idea, I ran with it. You know, kind of constantly putting new things. Play and see. And, you know, the first like four or five things I made were truly like mind-blowing and my friends and family, everyone around me was so like me. This is remarkable. You you you can't not share it. You know, you have to do something. And so at the time I was I was divorcing and, you know, started starting on a new path in life. And I needed to create a business for myself, because that's the first thought I had was I should start a business and then get a job as an entrepreneur that, you know, a very natural thought process, I guess. But I thought, you know, I'll do that. I'm going to start a bakery. I'm going to get this in people's mouths. I'm going to change how they think about, you know, what something without dairy and eggs can taste like. And at first, I wasn't actually interested in a bakery like in the community with a store fronts, that kind of thing. I really just wanted to be quite a bit bigger and reach everybody. The restaurants, cafes, I wanted to be the dessert when they bring out the big cart at the end of your big Italian meal and they say, oh, which one is beginning gluten free? And they would point to mine and say, this is from Kermit Baker. And people say, OK, good, that's what I want, because I've heard that's the best. Right. That was kind of my original. Yeah. You know, the mountain out there for me and sort of with that in mind, I kind of went right to some restaurants and started I started out of my house in January of 2013. And within six months outgrew my own kitchen quickly and rented space at a commercial kitchen that also six months ratatat and and knew immediately. OK. I'm ready to take the plunge and and start my own kitchen. You know, I could tell that that was the direction it was going. The business was almost, you know, the energy behind. It was so forceful. It had a life of its own. I almost couldn't stop it in a way. So then we got the big kitchen that also had a little storefront and and then and grocery stores started coming in and the community started knocking on the window saying, when are you going to open? And. Then I said, oh, my gosh, I want to open that, I just did. You stuck a sign in the door and we became a bakery, kind of with the idea of like an outlet that we'd be baking for restaurants and we would just sell whatever's happening that day. We'd fill in front, you know. And it's different. 

 

[00:14:00] You have. So I mean, I like the angle that you came at. 

 

[00:14:03] I know a lot of small bakeries and things actually always use more times than not start out of reverse. They'll start with their store front and then they'll start approaching restaurants or things of that nature. And so it's cool that you started from that kind of reverse back end moment. And they're two totally different. Be satisfying those different client tells. Well, three, if you're you know, if you're also getting into shipment but going dealing directly with restaurants as opposed to, you know, stores and then also having your own shop front. They have different schedules. They have different needs. Right. Different times of delivery and all those types of things. So managing all three of those. It sounds like it takes three very different hats to do. I kind of want to climb into it because when you get a store front, I think you do more about the philosophical endeavor. You know, when you're going through someone else's restaurant, you're giving them maybe a doctor that you're hoping they convey in addition to it being gluten free and, you know, vegan, you're hoping that they say something about ingredients or they're the love or the attention and the efficacy of that food. But when you have the opportunity to do it yourself, you have your own, you know, bakery. Can you kind of speak to what you tried to infuse the philosophy of the ethos into your staff or the way that it's set up so that you kind of convey your message to the customer? 

 

[00:15:29] Yes. Early early on, when we started hiring employees and I had heard from other people what it's like to work in a kitchen. It didn't sound very nice, but it sounded intense, hardcore, competitive, controlling. It sounded honestly. You know, we've seen lots of shows like Hell's Kitchen and, you know, chopped and, you know, there's so there's so much. Intensity and forcefulness in that environment. And I naively, as I've done everything with this whole business, naively jumped in, but I naively said, we're not going to do that. We're not going to have negative energy. And here we are. We are changing people's minds and hearts and souls around something so delicate and close to their heart. We have to be in our most authentic heart space. We have to have the most best intentions when we are making this food, meaning we have to make sure every every single thing we make is perfect. You know, it tastes perfect, it comes out perfect. And that when we're making it, we're making it with the intention that someone is going to eat it and it they're going to get that with them. There, that's going to come to them. 

 

[00:16:54] So enlightened baking kind of became this philosophy that I started telling my my co chefs and the people who worked in the front. You know, we're doing something differently. Here we are. We are affecting karma. You know, we. And that's the name of the bakery. You know, Karma Baker comes from not so much a karma bakery. You know, we aren't you know, it's not a catchy, fresh catchphrase that, you know, guided us to that name. Karma Baker means that we are taking into account the karmic footprint of the food itself. So where does that butter come from? 

 

[00:17:35] Whereas that egg coming from, what's it been through already before it comes to our door, you know, that that animal that has has a karmic imprint on it, you know? And when we eat that food, it is now in us, you know. And so I notice a lot of people when they go vegan, they calm down. You know, they have a lighter sense about them. You know, I definitely believe it changes you on the inside. 

 

[00:18:04] It changes your DNA, it affects your compassion. And I think. You know, I really think it changes you. You know, it changed me because I didn't go vegan for any reasons other than dietary issues. And and it almost blossomed within me where, you know, I just gave up. You know, beef, eggs and dairy. And within months, I couldn't eat any meat. You know, I couldn't be in the meat aisle at the grocery store. It just changed me into what has happened, you know? Yeah. But that's the kind of thing that, you know, I I tell them our employees. You know, I remind them that there is something much bigger, much deeper, that that's going on in our bakery and in our process. 

 

[00:18:49] And most of them get it. In fact, they're almost a little bit shocked by it because they've never been told. We want you to be happy when you're making food. You know, we want you to feel good when you're working, you know? So that's that's what we all we rest on that idea, that principle. When things are going wrong in the kitchen, we come back to that, you know? Yeah. 

 

[00:19:15] Absolutely. Well, and the majority of vegans that I meet, we're not born into a vegan family. And so I think what's interesting about that is it is an opportunity. 

 

[00:19:24] Anytime there's a conversion into a way of life and veganism as it's that, it's directly addressing the source of fuel that your body lives off of. It spills out into all aspects of one's life. You know, even if it wasn't consciously known to in the beginning. But there's an opportunity with that kind of a conversion for almost a mandate for education. And so what I think is interesting is that people who have become vegan educate themselves, even if they were prolifically, well versed in food and nutrition, they begin to educate themselves even more so wherever they started from. It's this opportunity. And I like to talk to vegans about this because we're especially in the food industries. There's an opportunity to educate anybody. You know, people understanding that it's vegan and probably therefore better for you on some level. How do you address that? You have moments of education, particularly in your in your store. You're talking about, you know, and this education that you give to your employees by just saying, you know, it's the way that we create the food. And it needs to be happiness. It needs to be light and calm and that. Do you take the opportunity to do that with your customers on a conscious level as well? Is there like spots of education or is it just by experience that they're being educated? 

 

[00:20:40] You know, it's a very delicate place to tread. Spreading the vegan philosophy, love and knowledge. Right. It's it's a lot of people are not yet open to being to their food being controlled. Right. So when you when, you know, they say why it why is it big? And some people come in because they're just gluten free and they'll say, you know, why no dig dairy and eggs, you know, and and we'll kind of explain, you know, the philosophy behind it. The one thing that I think speaks to everybody, though, is the environmental impact. And that is the thing that everybody's open to, you know. So. So now we've kind of instead of, you know, pointing to an animal cruelty kind of situation, you know, in explaining the karma bigger name, we we point to, you know, this cupcake is going to save five hundred and fifty gallons of water. They go and they're like. What's that? That's crazy. That's possible how you know and you know, it's Californians especially. We're highly, highly sensitive to our water supply. And and I did not know actually before conspiracy came out that that was even an issue. And I was horrified to find out that people did know about it. People in power and, you know, controlling our food, knew about it and weren't doing anything. So when when I tried to, you know, just reach somebody with that message, they're usually incredibly open and shocked themselves and then open to making tiny changes themselves. You know, because like you said, you know, the bakery is always the one where people say, well, I can not eat me. You know, I can I can eat healthy. But when I want dessert, I wanted to be good, you know? Yeah, I want a banana cream pie and I want ice cream, you know? 

 

[00:22:34] And and that's changing for them because now they've got the opportunity to, you know, maybe I don't need it because of because of this bakery or, you know, that ice cream shop. You know, I think we're all making immense changes. 

 

[00:22:47] Yeah. And I think adults are as equally attached. I think it's masked with children. 

 

[00:22:52] You know, I know I know grown adults. The majority of them adults I know weep for a really great sweet. But they won't say that. They'll say, well, you know, it's the kids like I what am I going to get for the birthday party or the this? They kind of mask it under that as well. And that's fine, too. You know, I think getting children really attached to a great vegan gluten free cupcake is is where you're going to. That's the future. 

 

[00:23:17] You know, it's it's where we're gonna get our market. And I agree with that. I'm wondering. 

 

[00:23:23] I want to talk a little bit about some of the particulars of like the differences between a vegan bakery as you could compare them to your counterparts that are not vegan. So even getting into some of this. My head goes to like the things that you purchase. You know, you got into the arrowroot or talking about things of that nature. Eggs you don't purchase butter you don't you do you think your fridge size is smaller because you're not requiring some of those things that need to live inside a refrigerator and therefore, even like lessening your carbon footprint with how much electricity you're taking up, like how does some of those things change? Do you think for you as compared to a non vegan bakery? 

 

[00:24:05] Well, the first thing when it comes to ingredients is a non vegan gluten free bakery is subsidized by the government. So dairy eggs we eat, they are practically free. They are practically free ingredients. So our ingredients right off the bat. The three major things are fat, our flour and then the multitude of things we use to replace eggs with are not even just double what a traditional bakery is. It is four times as much. So finding our ingredients is the first issue because they are much more natural, much more less processed. They aren't kind of pre pre-made and then sold, you know, a lot of bakeries. For instance, we make our graham cracker crust from scratch. 

 

[00:24:57] So meaning we make the graham crackers and then we find that, you know, a regular bakery goes to a supplier and buys a 50 pound bag of graham cracker crumbs, you know, that has butter, eggs and honey and wheat. Right. For probably about 20 dollars, maybe, maybe less. You know, we are doing it differently. We make our own caramel. We make our own all our own flour blends. We make we make our own sprinkles like we you know, we've had to make and get very creative with finding our ingredients and then getting the price down. So that's probably been our our biggest hurdle really is finding coconut oil in the early days. 

 

[00:25:43] That's our primary fat, you know, finding it in a gallon, finding it in a five gallon, you know, been very difficult. And if you can't find it one or they run out. Yeah, we're a pretty screwed many times, you know. Now we buy it at a fifty five gallon drums. We have them back stores and we have a bunch of own. But you know, and it's we only have one place to buy it from. So hopefully it stays in business. 

 

[00:26:12] The upside is that as vegan and gluten free stuff becomes more mainstream and people are looking for it. The prices come down and the relative competition to make the products comes up. So you have more people who are making vegan caramel say, you know. So those kinds of things, they're not mainstream yet, but they're getting there. So, yeah, as far as fridge space, I would say it's all the same and fortunately it's all there. 

 

[00:26:43] I. I just don't know. 

 

[00:26:44] You know, I know I love that idea. That thinking I've never compared it before. 

 

[00:26:48] We've talked off the record about I worked in as a child well as a 20 year old, which is a child. I worked in bakeries, you know, and in college and things like that. And it is interesting to think of a different universe. I really feel baking is it's it's unto itself. And so it was interesting to think about like, how would that work? I mean, you think of a bakery. It's eggs, sugar, flour. You've removed, too, you know. And so my mind kind of bends even as a vegan as to what that business looks like and the differences between it and and teaching people how to bake that way. You know, bakers there, it's a lifelong profession a lot of the time. And people do that profession forever and send someone to come in and say, I'm a baker and then walk into your place is not going to really know what they're doing for a minute. You know, training everyone up like that, like it's a very unique thing when you're all alone. 

 

[00:27:40] Right. 

 

[00:27:41] I wonder. So can you speak to some of the you do this nationwide endeavor now. 

 

[00:27:47] And I want you to kind of unpack some of that so that everyone listening who does not lived just outside of L.A. can kind of tap into what you're doing and get on and seeing you have a Web site. Is everything accessible there? And what products are you kind of shipping nationwide right now? 

 

[00:28:03] Yeah. Cool. We get we started our Web site five years ago sort of as a potential for shipping online and then also so that people could see our menu and view the ingredients and be familiar with what they're eating and pick up at our store. So we actually had two methods on the Web site for ordering and either picking up or shipping. And the online ordering shipping has always been you know, it's been plugging along. It's been a great experience because we've learned how to ship food the best possible way. We've learned what items do ship and don't ship. We've spent the last year and a half now shipping cakes, so whole birthday cakes all over California and the whole nation. We have a very good success rate with cakes getting there in lovely shape and still delicious and moist and everything, because that is the heartbreak. You know, you can order a birthday cake and everything is on that cake, right? It's the centerpiece. So. So fortunately, we've had a lot of experience working out a lot of the kinks in in shipping and now that this covered crisis has happened. 

 

[00:29:18] Our our online shipping has let me get the number. I feel like it has at least quadrupled. I think it's actually more like 10 times. It's an exponentially growing every week. So we're at about 10 times our normal production for shipping stuff. So we ship cakes now we have five what we call a karma box. So it's a box of specific items. One is our sampler, which is the most popular. It has 10 items that are kind of the bakery's highlights. So our donuts are incredibly popular. Our brownies are very popular. You know, we sell to a lot of the grocery stores around us and in Southern California. So we have a large following just from, you know, the brownies. You know, people still come in and say, I didn't know you were a bakery. I thought, you know. You know. So we sell it. You know, the highlights, the the rockstars from the bakery and in our boxes, brownie box, donut box, cake pops, fun, things like that. 

 

[00:30:20] And then with the virus kind of came a little bit of inspiration, like, you know, everybody wants our cupcakes. And so we decided to pack them in jars, you know, the eight ounce mason jar. And you get the layered cupcake in there, the lid, you know, it Easter was all we kind of launched it. And the you take the lid off and the inside the carrot cake jar is a little bunny diving in. And that was a giant hit. Super cute. Everybody is ordering that as the jars are taking off. And, you know, my favorite thing is the creativity. So I've just designed 12 new flavors of jars to start adding to the mix. They're just they travel so well. They keep so long. And it really is like a true treat. You know, it feels really special. 

 

[00:31:08] It's a feels that feels like add your Everest. I feel bakery and then shipping it. I immediately go to lack of quality control. 

 

[00:31:17] My brain like the issues that I would see the hurdles immediately. Quality control for one. And then add preservatives, infusion to, you know, to get that lifespan and that longevity. Have you been able to navigate that successfully or was it trial and error to get to? Because I know that, you know, on your site, you talk about consistency and the importance of maintaining, you know, that the experience that you really want everyone to have. So how did you kind of address those tips? And was it a learning curve or did you, you know it out the gate? 

 

[00:31:50] Yeah, definitely learning curve. You know, we've always kept in mind that we have one chance to change someone's mind because they're going to take one bite and go, oh, I knew it. This is terrible. Or they're gonna go, oh, wow, this is crazy, you know? So. So, yes, the the integrity in that first bite is everything. So we decided right off the bat to not ship items that we knew we couldn't 100 percent control it, how it would arrive, you know, taste and texture wise. And then the third problem is like it needs to arrive pretty, you know, some of our cupcakes. You know, we tried sending some trial errors, sending out cupcakes that were a bit of a cupcake soup. You know, we had we had a few days like that. But, you know, obviously, you're not going to have a lot of success during that. So, you know, we design things to make them travel. Well, you know, the chocolate our donuts are coat are dipped all the way in chocolate so that when they when they come out of the wrapper, you know, they're sealed completely when they come out of the wrapper. They are not messed up. You know, they look really nice. They keep the keeps the donut fresh inside. You know, the little things like that. We've done sort of curious, how is this product going to get where it needs to go and be the best, you know? So that's been, like I said, five years of, you know, plugging along and calendar and not even taking chances on things that we just knew. That's not going to work and you don't want to go there. 

 

[00:33:22] And I think the word you just used is so perfectly description for it's a curation. You have curated this process. You know, truly is this very thoughtful. And it is an artistic endeavor. 

 

[00:33:32] You know, when you get to this level, particularly, I think all cooking and baking is but on the level that you're functioning on and doing it. It truly is. It's special. It's ah, it's curated. It's thoughtful. 

 

[00:33:44] You know, it's amazing. I want to look at. I know that this has changed a lot and you've brought it up. 

 

[00:33:49] And so you clearly are feeling copacetic with the nature of it, as I think all small businesses have them. We're still all, you know, or everyone is still kind of going through emotions. But you've had a dialog. It sounds like with yourself and even with your company and where it's. Can sintering the pandemic that we're in and the future of it. But I'm hoping you can speak to the goals that you have for the kind of all of the various aspects even underneath it. I don't know if they vary, but for karma baker like for the next one to three years, has the pandemic played into that significantly? Were you already headed there? Can you kind of speak to and do you do that as a company? Do you have three year goals or do you have smaller ones like six month goals? 

 

[00:34:34] Yeah, we have gotten out of the practice of having, you know, two and three, you know, 90 day or one year or three or five year goals. You know, the thing that has happened with our business is that we have you know, we've always had the wholesale going to the grocery stores. We've always had the front and then we've always had the online. And whenever something has happened within the neighborhood, you know, we had giant fires here last year and it practically closed everything down. You know, almost all of Malibu burned down. And we have a ton of customers from Malibu. So our community was missing. But, you know, things like that, we have been able to sort of just move into the direction of what works and and push the business into that place. You know, we always have had this very long flash, short term goal of, you know, giant success. You know, ultimately on the first day when I said, this is what I want to do, I you know, I wanted to be in Starbucks. I want when you go to Starbucks and there's nothing to eat, half of that counter is karma bakers, vegan, gluten free stuff. You know, that's where my head was big. I don't want to be a bakery in L.A.. You know, I want to be a bakery in the world, you know? So I have always had kind of that as my goal out there. And what it takes to get to that goal along the way is a squiggly road, you know, as long as I'm in the same direction on that road. I feel like we are succeeding. And honestly, when Kobe hit and everybody was talking about closing down, all I could think was there is no way we've gone through all this trouble and effort to close down and lose our business from this. It just felt inconceivable that it's not happening. And then and then people started finding us online. So search engines, I don't even know how they'd been finding us, really. But it's it's, you know, dozens of orders every day. You know, it's fantastic. Incredible. Yeah. 

 

[00:36:42] Yeah. Well, I mean, it's that laser view you've got of the Starbucks out there. I think people are that scoped and you can over calls it the secret. Years ago, like you can do whatever you want. 

 

[00:36:53] But I think that that kind of as human beings, you know, that kind of a clear focus and drive is the number one thing. Ninety nine percent of all seeing us, you know, having none of that. That's cool. I like that. That's it's it's it's first time I've spoken to someone that has been that amazingly brave to be like, yeah, it was Starbucks. 

 

[00:37:12] You know, most people get like a little shy. 

 

[00:37:15] They maybe not to themselves, but when they're talking to someone with a podcast, I love that you just audaciousness of putting it out. That's fantastic. So I'm in that same vein. 

 

[00:37:25] I'm wondering if you could speak to the, you know, 2013 you are launching this endeavor. Look, knowing what you know now, what are the top three pieces of advice that you would give? Be good or bad. Stay away from this. Do more of this. What would be the top three pieces that you would give back to yourself? 

 

[00:37:45] So many things. It's almost hard to choose three. And, you know, it's really hard to also because the journey has been the the process. 

 

[00:37:56] And if I took a piece out, I'm not sure we would be where we were, you know, or I don't feel regretful about any of the choices and decisions we've made along the way. I would say, you know, originally, if I could speak to myself, then I would say this is going to be really, really hard. And don't expect it to not be hard. And I would say when you get the most afraid, the most fearful, lean into it and do that more. Whatever that thing is that feels so scary. Pushed through it because that's where change happens. 

 

[00:38:34] You know, that's where when your comfort level gets a little a little shaken, you know, that's when you know, you're doing something bigger than you would have done, you know? Yeah. So we've you know, we've like I said, we've moved into the things. We've kept three avenues of revenue open in order to, you know, move with the water, with the tide. But, you know, maybe I would tell myself to run ahead in one direction and see what happens. Absolutely. You know, sometimes that's kind of where we are right now, you know, with with online shipping. It's it really is the best way for us to reach the most people. And, you know, originally my goal is get this in everyone's mouth, you know, change people's minds. Be there for that person that doesn't have a bakery in your dorm or whose mom can't make a cake or, you know, that's that's who we want to be getting into the mouth. So however we get in their mouth is where I want to go. Right. And the delivery, the online, the, you know, eating at home, the bakery to you. Like I I've always loved that. And I just thought maybe people weren't ready for it, like I was ready for it. So maybe that's changed. And yeah, maybe that's the silver lining. 

 

[00:39:55] It follow suit. You are through and through. You know, leaning into discomfort and all of those things and having this magnificent goal. And I love it. I love all of it. And I'm sure it tastes in your food. 

 

[00:40:07] Everyone's got to jump on. I'm a baker icon. And if for nothing else than to have, you know, this kind of profound person speaking for it and things like that, like you've got taste that nobody nobody can turn that down. You know, you've got to give that a shot. And we are out of time, Celine. But I want to say thank you so much. 

 

[00:40:27] It's been a pleasure. I really appreciate all of your information and your candor today. 

 

[00:40:32] Thank you so much, Patricia. It was wonderful to talk to you. Natalie, thank you for everyone listening. 

 

[00:40:37] We've been speaking with Celine Eichler. And you can find her and all of her delicious food on Karma Baker AdCom until we speak again next time. 

 

[00:40:47] Thank you for tuning in. Stay well, stay safe, eat well and remember to always bet on yourself.