Speaking with Niki Webster; Cookbook Author, Food Consultant & stylist, & Holistic Health Coach

Today I am speaking with Niki Webster. Niki is a cookbook author, freelance food consultant, recipe creator, food stylist, photographer and qualified Holistic Health Coach. Niki shares her easy and accessible plant-based recipes packed with fresh seasonal organic veg on her award-winning food blog Rebel Recipes. Her debut cookbook 'Rebel Recipes' was released December. Niki has a social media following of over 300,000 and works with a range of household brands including Sainsburys, Riverford and Kenwood. She is the co-host of the podcast What the Focaccia and regularly teaches workshops and appears on panels.

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with cookbook author, food consultant stylist Niki Webster. Key points addressed were Niki's Web site, blog and new cookbook titled Rebel Recipes. I also had the chance to ask Niki about her perspective regarding the Vegan scene in the UK, where she is based, as well as about some of the core philosophies and values she has based all of her cooking, writing and podcasting around. Stay tuned for my interesting chat with Niki Webster.

 

[00:00:35] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:33] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Niki Webster. Niki is a cookbook author, food consultant and stylist. You can find out more regarding everything that she does. Her cookbook, as well as her podcast on w w w dot rebel recipes dot com. Welcome, Niki.

 

[00:01:51] Hi. So thank you for having me.

 

[00:01:54] Absolutely. I am so excited to cleanse you everything that you're doing. We've spoken to your good chum. Bettina recently on this podcast. I'm very happy to get the other co-host on the podcast as well as I love nepotism and kind of friendly relationships like that for everyone listening. We're going to go over a quick bio for Niki to kind of garner a sense of who we're speaking with today. But prior to that, I'll give you a roadmap for today's podcast so you can kind of follow the trajectory in which I will be basing the large portion of my inquiries from. I'll first ask Niki to describe a little bit about her academic background and occupational history, so can garner a sense of what her history has offered her up until this point. And then we'll look at her personal history and rhetoric regarding her Vegan or plant based journey and where it brought her to now and then. We'll turn towards unpacking her website, blog and podcast and we'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, hi, how founding time period, all of those. And then we'll turn to the ethos and the philosophy behind her work and how the threads kind of pull through her podcast, her book, her recipes, all of those good things. And then we'll get into some of the particulars just around the Vegan culture and a lot of the issues that she's brought up on her podcast. I've had the pleasure of listening to quite a few of those, and I would love to kind of climb through some of those core tenants and get Niki's opinion on a lot of those things. That will wrap up our half an hour podcast so quickly. As promised, a bio on Niki. Niki Webster is founder of Rezac Rebel Recipes. She is a cookbook author, freelance food consultant, recipe creator, food stylist, photographer and qualified holistic health coach. Niki shares her easy and accessible plant based recipes packed with fresh, seasonal organic veg on her award winning food blog, Rebel Recipes. Her debut cookbook, Rebel Recipes, was released in December. Niki has a social media following of over 300000 and works with a range of household brands, including Sansbury River, Ford and Kenwood and Kenwood. She is the host of the podcast. What the Focaccia and regularly teaches workshops and appears on panels and What the Coccia is the podcast. I was listening to and referring to and I hope everyone jumps on and checks that out. I will have Niki kind of drop. You can find that on her website, rebel recipes dot com. But I'll have her kind of enumerate more of those. Those podcasts in a minute. But Niki, I'm hoping you can start us off talking about your academic background, occupational life and some of your Vegan story as it transpires through both of those.

 

[00:04:32] Yeah, of course. Okay. So in terms of my academic background, I think like many people, I can really go to where you have an interesting route to, actually owes the Bloods it up now. But I basically went to university and I studied sociology and criminal justice, completely unrelated to anything I'm doing. Yeah, but there were just subjects I would sort of secret interest in and I love doing. And then I sort of finished university, went back home, had absolutely no money. So I just needed to get a job. So I basically worked in a bar and I got a job as a graduate trainee at a breakfast roll company.

 

[00:05:15] And yes, basically I did graduate for you. Always get a broad understanding of the business. Some Chinese and I thought that was sort of a good place to start coming from the bases.

 

[00:05:29] I literally was so broke I just had to get a job. So an opening came, became available in multi departments with breakfast or company, and that sounded eminently more exciting than the projects and the things I was doing working in the factory and various things at the time. So I am very sort of I'm quite determined, criticized when I put my mind to something, I sort of go all out and try and get it. And that sounds like a better option. So the marketing. That sounds exciting. No, I'll go in and see what that's all about. So what's the role? And yet I really liked it. It was tiny. That was it. The company was in sort of transition and turmoil and also sort of thrown deep end. And I had no idea what was doing. But it just seemed like a fun, exciting, interesting, relatively creative role. So. So, yeah. So I stayed in marketing. I worked in that role for a couple of years, sort of changing roles as a product management and brand management role. And then, yeah, sort of got him to a stage where. Wanted to progress further. I was only young. Opportunity is also getting a little bit ahead of myself, I felt like I knew everything, knew absolutely nothing. Yeah, and then. Right. Well, I've had enough. I'm not not moving forward enough, so. Well, I'll move on. So at that time, I'd started seeing a guy he would he was at you need finished duty.

 

[00:06:53] So he was living in Birmingham.

 

[00:06:56] I'm from Shropshire. That means anything to you. I mean, I was living in Birmingham, finishing at eight. So I went to looking for the jobs and the recruitment company that I was looking jobs through, said Nicky. Would you like to. We'd be interested. Working agreements. I had absolutely no idea about recruitment. I think they were luring me in with the promise of huge bonuses. Lots of hot work. I've never been afraid of hard work. So the challenge was quite appealing to me. And yes, I basically went to work in recruitment, sales, recruitment for about 18 months. I think it was in the end. But honestly, it was such a horrific shock to my system. Yeah. I was genuinely awful at it initially. And but I you know, I'm I like to absorb things. I like to be good at things if I can be. So I you know, I work really hard. It's so intense. We need to work twelve hours a day. Yeah. You know, it's a sales role. So it was it was difficult. But it honestly, I feel like it changed my genes, my career trajectory. I would say just for the fact that I got the opportunity to pay off all of my student loans, which, you know, I felt a weight off. No. Yeah. I mean, kids leave school and they have loads of major debts, basically. And and it sort of is relatively prohibitive to what you can actually do. And I didn't feel right for you having all these debts. So I basically paid it all off and then decided much to my mum's horror because I was you know, I've always been maybe a little bit rebellious and naughty and didn't necessarily do the things that, you know, people expect me to do. And. And so I just got myself in. A situation is more financially secure. I had a stable, if not exciting career improvement. Yeah. Right now, my boyfriend. So I was just going one evening were to go traveling for six months. So, yeah, much mum's horror. She was just, you know, up in arms and said, how can you do this? But we're off. So spent went to Asia and India for three and a half months and feels a bike traveled round the whole of the south coast, although the end of India. And. And then, yeah, I did a huge tour, really three 1/2 months in India. And then we went over to Thailand for Christmas. It's very exciting. And then went to Cambodia like Vietnam, back to Bangkok, flew to Nepal to track him in the Himalayas and then went back down through northern India. So brilliant.

 

[00:09:35] That's was right track. Well done. I mean, he know so young. Yeah. Absolutely. And those countries are not frequently picked, at least not by the young Globetrotters I talked to today. You know, that's an amazing journey.

 

[00:09:48] It was. And this is I still find it quite sinding in six months. My boyfriend and I only spend fifteen hundred pounds each.

 

[00:09:59] Excellent.

 

[00:10:01] I mean, that's a book unto itself. That's an advisory board at the very least.

 

[00:10:07] That included it need to the flights and visas. We were it was it was one big sort of negotiation and anything that's really where my no comments talking about my recipes and things. But that's that's one of the things that really instilled my sort of, you know, passion for the food and different cuisines. And, you know, vegetarian never would've been sort of vegetarian begin for a long, long time. But, you know, those countries, they just did the most amazing, you know, vegetarian food. So that was just such a joyous experience, I think, even though we spent so little money. Most of the most that time is actually deciding what we're going to eat every day. So that was a highlight there. That was so inspirational. So anyway, I came back from traveling again, once again, this pending situation, and then went back home to Shropshire. And I hope Ryan's going to see what I can get back into marketing. And and so I did. I worked in a in a dairy company, yogurt company and a brand management position for a couple of years. That company was sold. And then what went to work in salad? What there for a number of years. So, yes, it's sort of produced by healthy eating. And I moved around a little bit from management, then sort of marketing. Mok's manager and I specialize in social media and digital marketing.

 

[00:11:31] Nice. Were you Vegan when you were traveling throughout India and Asia?

 

[00:11:35] Yeah, vegetarian, but sort of Vegan because I've got a dairy allergy. So. So yes, I would have said I was vegetarian, but mostly vegan because, you know, I've always had an issue with dairy. So even though I can sort of tolerate it a little bit and sometimes how to avoid things. Yeah. Most vegetarian.

 

[00:11:58] It's foretelling.

 

[00:11:59] I was talking to you off the air and I listened to a podcast or somewhere where you were mentioning, you know, as a child, your introduction, your baptism into curry paste and how you were putting that on everything because it was like this new found first spice, you know, in the kitchen as you kind of walked into the kitchen and were introducing yourself to that whole scene that you ended up in India, you know, kind of eating.

 

[00:12:20] But I always tell people my relationship with being Vegan changes so drastically with every new country I go to. And it's the investigation of the local cuisine of not just the local cuisine, the local agriculture.

 

[00:12:34] You know, I was in Fiji recently and cassava is just not something they serve a great deal in the United States, at least not on the West Coast where I live and researching cassava and the differences between the nutritional differences between that and a potato and why that kind of plays into how you cook it slightly differently and how the locals use it. And it's just it's always growing. My relationship with it. And so it's for you to have traveled through all of these countries. I think people think of a lot of Asian and Indian cuisines and and don't realize how many, like just sharply Vegan, naturally Vegan recipes there are, as well as how many ingredients kind of augment, you know, Vegan cooking today all over the world. So I think it's an awesome baptism into what you did. I'm curious, what was the springboard into this? You know, you you career travel back to your career, what took you into this entrepreneurial? I'm going to launch my role. I'm going to start creating recipes. How did that all come together?

 

[00:13:32] Yeah. I've been into cooking and food for ever.

 

[00:13:37] I've just been the biggest foodie. And, you know, you you mentioned meats. I'm starting to use curry paste, things like that. I've just I've just got this really sort of strange taste buds, I think. And even though it's grew up in the UK, you know, my mom was my mom's a great cook, actually, but it's just very traditional, sort of, you know, in U.K., British cuisine, potatoes and meats and vegetables and use this funds a little bit now. But, you know, definitely growing up digital and I just didn't find exciting tool. I just find it super bland because I was I've never, ever been interested in eating meat and I always have a dairy allergy.

 

[00:14:17] You know, it was just a bit limited, you know, what I could eat. So that's where the sort of, you know, this whole world exploded when I suddenly discovered concretized. Sounds really simple, but. Oh, my goodness, I can get food. I find that Blanton's suddenly exciting. And then. Yeah, so I suppose it is driven by me always sort of cooking for myself and having to create the food I like to eat. So yes, we've been cooking these recipes and I've been thinking about starting a blog for quite a long time before I actually start today, because I think, like, I would just have never crossed the nation and why would I do it would be would be interesting. All of this sort of physical barriers haven't gone along. How can I get one? You know, I'm really busy working with Chris, really important. Just things just busy.

 

[00:15:07] So when they get press donated.

 

[00:15:10] For many years, few years, and then and then suddenly there was just more of a sort of burning urgency to actually do it. And, you know, as things get to the stage where if you don't do it is actually unbearable, you know, mentally that you just have to do so.

 

[00:15:27] So, yes, my my husband is a graphic designer. He builds websites among many things, many, many hats like me. And so finally, I persuaded him kindly make my first Web site. And yeah, I just started to put things online. I sort of because I had a background in food marketing and digital marketing, I sort of sort of knew I was doing. So I decided to, you know, software platforms at the same time. Instagram five years ago was not that huge right now, right? Yeah. But I loved it because I'm incredibly visual, sort of creative person. So for me, even though the things I was putting on that were. Hideous, freezing. Awful. But excellent, really lovely creative outlet. Yeah. And just something that I could see myself doing for myself because, you know, doing all sort of stuff at work, which was fine. The job was good. But I just I was feeling increasingly more frustrated that I just had to work for myself. And, yeah, it was getting uncomfortable even. Yeah. I was rationalizing at that stop. That job is good. It's provides a steady income. You know, I've worked hard to get AM, but I've just really wanted to work for myself and see what I could do it.

 

[00:16:49] Yeah. And that's I mean, it's an interesting point I like from your background. I don't talk to a lot of it. I think maybe some are more well versed than they like to give credit to.

 

[00:16:59] I think that the great fear with chefs is that you'll take away from the recipe design and things of that nature. If you talk about the stylization or the visual aspects of the food, they bring photographers in. You know, they have it done. But that part is very unspoken. For the cookbook and I like your attention to and you're honest, you know, candor with the idea that you like stylization of food and, you know, and menu design and recipes, it's like you're not afraid of that design aspect. And I'm really curious because I haven't had the honor of cracking your cookbook yet, which I promise you I will do in the near future.

 

[00:17:34] But I wonder when you went to create that. How much of the conversation was about. I like it.

 

[00:17:41] There must have been some kind of a rapport between the two because you're visually and stylistically in very in tune with, you know, the appearance of food and stylizing food.

 

[00:17:52] How much of the creation or the direction or the route that the cookbook take took was based on that aspect as opposed to the recipes? You know, was it was there any conversation that directed the flow or which foods made it in which you didn't? Because you're so keen to be open and honest with some of those visual aspects of food?

 

[00:18:13] Yeah, I think that's really interesting. And I suppose my whole business, unsuccess, my business is stems from from online and from Instagram, which is clearly a visual platform round. And so it's all intrinsically linked. So so, yes. I mean, I don't get lots of thoughts on that, actually, because. Yeah.

 

[00:18:38] Everything I make. I'm sort of thinking about it from a visual perspective. And I I think I can pretty much make most things attractive because a lot of the food I chose to eat in my cookbook and online. They're quite brown, actually. I mean, I eat a lot of lentils and curries things because I always want to post authentically what I'm eating. And that's the essence of it comes I can write about things that visually and also assuage people's Marxian plan in terms of sort of, you know, online. And I know that lots of craters absolutely create food purely for the visual aspect, because I know that that's popular. And that's part of that business model. And it is in my mind, and I will think that I need to make this look attractive. However, it is still a bite. For me, the taste in January wasn't eating and having sort of a, you know, documenting. This is what I'm eating. This is what, you know, on a day to day basis rather than creating specific content.

 

[00:19:44] And it does. And I think that to actually have a lot of conversation between each other in an unspoken way. Bettina, your buddy and I were talking about I'm eating seasonally, you know, and she converted me.

 

[00:19:57] I feel like I talk to so many nutritionists and vegans a week that you couldn't possibly introduce a new idea. And bam, there it was with Bettina. And she said, you know, I'm even with the greenhouse's, even the ability to eat year round. It doesn't taste the same. She doesn't believe it does the same thing for your body, which I don't now either. And she's like she was talking about genuinely tasting, you know, a strawberry in season. And what that tastes like from a responsible farm and comparing that to the difference of one grown year round.

 

[00:20:27] And I was thinking when I hung up with her, even the vibrancy like I was at the market, you know, strawberries are in season. And she was right. They have never. If you look at the most vibrant, saturated foods in real life. Right. I r l then you are looking at things that are very much so in season and then that's having a conversation with the visual, with the taste. You know, if it's looking vibrant and you haven't shoved chemicals all over it to get it that way, it's going to taste beautiful.

 

[00:20:55] Yeah. Because you absolutely eat with your eyes. So, I mean, it looks vibrant and juicy and gorgeous. You're gonna wanna read it, but I can. I completely agree. You know, I'm a huge fan of, you know, organic veg boxes. I said, what about it all the time? Because it's just such a sort of superway, super easy way of knowing first and knowing what's in season. And secondly is having this gorgeous seasonal product.

 

[00:21:21] It's all organic, all grown, perfectly delivered to you. And it's like an education in itself because, you know, with it, with a weekly box, it's. It's fresh. It's you know, it's hopefully, you know, locally ish. If, you know, it's always a bit of a challenge in the UK because it's not the water supply climates. It's so but obviously it's something that we're benefiting from losers'. I you've raised muchly. Yeah.

 

[00:21:46] Yeah. You're literally getting the best on produce at the moment, so it's just the best time. And that in itself is super borrowing. That's again how I tended about recipes I would take. The raw ingredient for me is sort of the the veg, the seasonal veg, and then basically create sort of, you know, recipes around that. And that's it. I use that sort of guide, how I how I develop. And then it's yeah, it's not only fresh, but it's healthy, it's in season and it's like a Yes. Little roadmap of how to eat seasonally. And I'm curious about that.

 

[00:22:18] I was wondering how one, because you're kind of guided by your own light. So the curation process, it sounds like what's in season and then do you take any following feedback? Do you ever hear fans say, listen, I want you to show me how to cook this? Like how much of it is directed by what you're doing and what you think is cool at the time? And if it is just all based on you? Where do you get your influences? Do you go out? You talked. I mean, obviously, the pandemic has put a damper on these kinds of inquiries. But prior to that, do you do you kind of expose yourself to influences that will then curate what you're making? How does all of that come to be with what you're creating right now?

 

[00:22:57] Yeah, it's sort of a combination of everything I'd say, because I've been sort of developing continents Vegan recipes for quite a while now. I do I do sort of know what people want from me.

 

[00:23:08] So but of course, that in itself is driven by those type of things I like to produce and eat, so. Yeah. So, yes, it sort of feeds into each other. I think people have come to expect from me a certain type of recipes so they know they're going to get the whole food recipe. It's going to be natural products can be seasonal VegFest commercially can be organic, it's going to be pulses, it's going to be, you know, veg based food. You know, that's the center. So they sort of expect that. And then I'm always having a conversation myself with, you know, maybe I should be doing a few more cakes. They may make or Rakestraw. They may want chocolate. But it's you know, I mean, I'm sort of instinctively drawn to them. Some people so passionate about baking. They love making all the desserts. But it's not something I typically eat that much. Yeah. I don't I don't I don't really do it. So it maybe is producing things quite selfishly. But then I also think it's coming from a place of natural food. Whole Foods and, you know, seasonal veg. So hopefully if I can make it tasty enough, which I'm always trying to do, sort of inject layers of layers of flavor and spices. And also, I think that that's what food is quite accessible. You know, store cupboard is quite cheap.

 

[00:24:26] You know, if you if you've got the basics pulses and some grains and some nuts and seeds and then you add some nice seasonal veg. But, you know, that's cheap. But not, you know, big batches of food. And you make it delicious. It sort of takes quite a few boxes.

 

[00:24:41] Absolutely. How many of your recipes did you take for your cookbook? Rebel Recipes from your website. Rebel recipes? About 25.

 

[00:24:52] Yeah, I went in publisher. They felt that that was because some recipes in which some recipes over the years just have just superseded popular. So I think it's nice for people to have it in a Walker handheld format rather than accessing online.

 

[00:25:10] What are your baptismal recipes? And when I mean that, I mean from non vegans. What do you like to serve most? On a personal level or recommend other people make who are kind of getting societies and communities? A big conversation happening among Vegan and non vegans that isn't angry is one of like, how do I introduce them to this? Without that, there's a great deal of fear with people who think that, you know, they're going to be missing out on dairy meat. All of the things that they've been used to. Do you have, like go tos that you recommend for yourself or for others that people make?

 

[00:25:43] Yeah, I think it's you sort of have to think about making people really satisfied and happy. So, for example, if you set someone up, you know, big place of salad, it might be healthy and might look gorgeous and be very vibrant and might be seasonal.

 

[00:26:00] But I don't know, I wasn't necessarily going to be really satisfied from that. So I really loved the big, hearty sort of comfort foods type dishes.

 

[00:26:11] So I would, you know, probably have a really lovely spiced curry or something or stew, but then not just that, because that's good in itself. And you can be feel comforted and happy, but then you have some layers of flavor. I mean, I always have big with great big feasts. So that is a problem I have. I can't just create one day she'll have to think is my main dish. And then let's just sneak three others and some flatbread and some crunch. And I think that's, you know, some tips and then a bit of salad and then some people.

 

[00:26:41] And I think that's what, you know, people are missing. Sometimes when I'm not eating meat, that's sort of like different flavors and textures. And so if you have that's something that's like big and hearty and comforting and you've got some, you know, vegetables and roast veggies and pulses, but then you've got something sharp, that pickle, and then you've got some flatbreads mochi up and you've got some creamy hummus. I mean, you could feel pretty excited and satisfied by that meat because it's just the amazing texture combination.

 

[00:27:10] Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

 

[00:27:11] And I think that one of the negative associations people have with veganism, which I'm not sure where it stems from.

 

[00:27:16] I think it comes from the early punk movement that was in the 80s where a great deal of people expressing the Vegan philosophy were very, very like anorexic looking white boys walking around. And so I think that that was like somehow, because I feel like one of the negative associations is that vegans don't eat where. Pound for pound my meals and the amount of food I consume because it's so much, you know, raw and whole fruits and vegetables. It's actually quite, quite much a great deal larger than someone who's actually eating meat or cheeses, which are dense and kind of like on your plate, you know. And so I think that this huge abundance visually of food is kind of this like.

 

[00:27:55] And now we feast, you know, kind of flips that on its head, which is delightful. I'm wondering with that. So I forgot to go over for all of my nerdy little founders out there. The logistics of can you just run us to rattle off really quickly when the website was founded? Did you have co-founders? Did you take any funding to found it? And what was originally the content of it?

 

[00:28:17] Yep. Founded in 2015.

 

[00:28:19] And it was basically all just purely myself and just done at the same time as my marketing job. So for the first 18 months, I was doing it alongside some needed income.

 

[00:28:29] So just working really hard, getting used to sort of exercise at six a.m. for work. And then I just swapped it. And so instead I would get up and create content. Yeah. And then. Yes, of successively creating content constantly. And as I said, pretty badly initially. But I really wanted to work. You know, I studied hard to, you know, make myself look a bit more appealing. And then. Yeah, and then it was quite slow initially. And what I said was working at the same time. And then I got better gain, more followers, more opportunities preparing.

 

[00:29:08] I want this organization over the award, which is amazing, about sort of eight months after I started, which was just incredible. And yet things to Rome, really.

 

[00:29:22] And I just felt that, you know, there was only so much I could do. I'm just going to sort of take this scary leap and resign and see what happens. And then, yeah, it's just been sort of like up and down sort of rollercoaster, but absolutely amazing. And I think, you know, I always say that. And I sort of felt that if I Johnson did take the chance. I mean, at the end of the day, I could, I'm sure, get a Moxham job again. So it is when you take the risk that exciting things happen and if you sort of have confidence that you have the sort of work ethic sort of to work. And I was literally, I think most people's saying yes to absolutely everything. Yes, I can do that whether I can. But I'll I'll give it a go. Make it your house. All sorts of crazy things. And some things work. Some things were not so good. But, you know, it's all a learning process. And yeah. And then it's just sort of evolved and things have definitely changed over time. But yeah.

 

[00:30:23] Well, to that end, I kind of want to pull on that thread a little bit just because I you know, you're across the pond and I can go on and on about the Vegan community here over the past 10 years and the change it's currently even undergoing this incredible spike. I actually really adore being on the flagship, as it were, of know the second wave of veganism in this. Because I think it's exciting to see things change and manifest, and this is where the podcast. This podcast is built out of the rhetoric and the growing change of Vegan worlds. But I want to know about the UK, which I haven't. I'm. I visit Ireland a great deal. And so I know a little bit about their scene. And I was just in Australia and Fiji and bunch of those places.

 

[00:31:02] But the UK, it's interesting. I've spoken to about 30 people so far for the podcast and about seven or eight of those have been people located in the UK and they talk about. So there's been two schools of thought. One of them was that they felt as though, you know, the US had a greater threshold and strong stronghold on the Vegan culture and the UK was kind of behind, if you will. And taking notes from it. And conversely, I've spoken to a great deal of Americans that believe that. Well, they had one of the first institutions in, you know, just outside of London that was certifying and talking about the philosophy of the Vegan culture and had like an actual certification program in Vegan dietary cuisines and things like that. And so they believe that the UK was the four founder of it. And neither of that's important as to who was really the granddaddy or grandmother of the whole thing is not here or there for me. What I'm curious about is right now and the past, you know, over the span of your professional life, what is the growth and tone been like for the Vegan culture? I know it was neach and tiny and small, but what has it been as of the past five years in your eyes as it relates to food and your industry?

 

[00:32:19] I think it's it's been so interesting, firstly, because when I started on my channels, my blog. It was absolutely in that initial stage. There was no one talking about it at all.

 

[00:32:31] And, you know, a few people across the world that I had the pleasure of connecting to to make me feel less weird. But, yeah, tiny.

 

[00:32:43] And then I don't know. It was like for me, it felt like a wash, just an explosion. And I felt those you know, there's some resistance in the press. And then it just it was like a tidal wave of acceptance, I think, in the U.K. And now it's unbelievable.

 

[00:33:01] Of course, you know, there's been no restaurants or anything for the past few months, but. Pretty much all restaurants, you know, even in obscure areas now that they've got. Vegan options. These markets are incredible. My friend Derek Sonna has been instrumental in developing the Tesco Vegan range. And then all the other retailers pretty much followed suit and they've got huge ranges. So from our perspective on all lines, eating natural foods. Yeah. And I provide recipes that don't necessarily aren't necessarily replacement for meat. But if you if businesses are just moving into veganism or you do want something that emulates that sort of meaty taste a little bit, the ranges are huge. So, you know, there's so many options everywhere. I mean, I'd love to live in London. But, you know, directional seed in London is amazing. So, yeah, it's it's exploded. It's sort of secret.

 

[00:34:01] So two time cookbooks, online platforms, everything. What year do you think that that happened? Can you say it like a year or a time period in which you really felt like that that change happened? Yeah, I think it was a couple of years ago that things really escalated. I think the year before it was moving and then a couple of years ago, it just exploded. You personally.

 

[00:34:23] Do you find that with the acceptance you're able to bring in not more centric, but maybe more eclectic or, you know, it's like, let's see, maybe baking like arrowroot?

 

[00:34:35] I mean, I couldn't find it 10 years ago without going, you know, a bit outside of town. And now, you know, those types of things are even coming down in price because of the commonality of Vegan bakers cooking with things like that, that those kinds of thickening agents. But I'm curious, do you find yourself being influenced by it as as a creator? Do you find yourself kind of broadening what you are inspiring people to cook? Like, how has that kind of infiltrated you, the way you cook and your business with this kind of acceptance opening up?

 

[00:35:06] Yeah, I just I.

 

[00:35:09] I don't think I've ever really created recipes specifically for vegans. I've I've always just created. I hope I try. This is my aim.

 

[00:35:19] Really tasty, plump based food, Vegan food that I hope is accessible to everyone. Because, you know, again, this is a huge thing in the UK. And I think this is instrumental in terms of people's acceptance. It's really now, you know, this is Stovall's of people that like die hard meat eaters that, you know, would never, ever eat a Vegan meal, you know, that just quit. And now I know personally people that, like, aren't unique from Monday, I'm reducing my meat content. So that's just for me that indicates the real shift change.

 

[00:35:51] So how would you. So how are they about recipes is. This is some really delicious veg based food. And I hope. Viegas, I like it, but parents don't like it. People that reducing meat will like it.

 

[00:36:04] So it's open to anyone. But in terms of ingredients. Yeah, I think there's a lot more a lot more awareness night because of so much stuff in the process, so much stuff on TV, it's becoming more mainstream. Sort of weird Nishu readings. It's definitely becoming more accessible. I mean, eat. I mean, you know, I mean, there's always been these like plant based milks, but I mean, not from walks.

 

[00:36:24] There's 20 plant based milks, you know, this far. Vegan Jesus. You know, it's just it's just amazing everywhere. And one of the sudsing workshops like what is nutritional yeast? Is it. Is it just the Yeast Munch workshops? They've provided the ingredients. I've got like a little pot of diesel, fresh yeast and like. No, no, no. Right, right. This terrines. People people know that.

 

[00:36:51] Yeah, they do. I agree. And I like that.

 

[00:36:53] I like I like all knowledge, you know, I don't care which can't be subscribed to you, but I want everyone to read the same information so that we can argue adequately, especially when it comes to nutrition and health and things like that, that I think are direct byproducts of the Vegan culture, which is another reason why I think the covered nineteen pandemic has resurged in, you know, acclimated regardless of its roots. And I don't even get into the wet market conversation with anyone other than friends. But the conversation with health has always been here. And I'm glad to have that be like one of the things that's most quickly attached to the Vegan lifestyle. You did drop the word and I usually wait for all of my guests to do it. You said plant based three times. So I'm going to ask you, what is your key and fundamental difference between being plant based and being Vegan and how do you define each for yourself?

 

[00:37:42] Yes, so Vegan for me is a lifestyle choice.

 

[00:37:46] And for me, that's more. That's that is an ethical choice, a move, a commitment to being sort of Vegan in all aspects of your lives, making commitment to have a crew, to feed lifestyle, not one lever, you know, not not having cruelty free makeup and beauty products. And it's it's a much broader lifestyle thing for me.

 

[00:38:06] Plant based is much more centered around having a plant centric diet and embracing, you know, could be Vegan. But it's more about having a sort of, you know, a plant focus. That's OK.

 

[00:38:22] And to that end, does plant based denote health? Because that's been the next connection that everyone's making that the marketing industry has just attached on to that and flown off into the sunset with plant based denoting organic health healthy, those types of things.

 

[00:38:40] Does that work for you to degree?

 

[00:38:44] Because I think that, you know, on a really basic level, including more plants and tump based derivatives and sort of natural products in your diet, for me, that's sort of an easy way to make you a little bit healthier if you're eating natural foods and plant based fruits and vegetables and fruits and things like that.

 

[00:39:00] Vegan. In my mind, it's it's an ethical commitments. You could be healthier. Big Vegan. But it doesn't Nessus. It doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand because you can be a vegan and just eat sort of, you know, processed Vegan food. But, you know, do it for purely ethical reasons, so I find know separate.

 

[00:39:24] Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's important to separate them regardless of how one defines them. They need to be defined. I think it's crucial also to have individuals define and companies how they're using those terms. You know, because I do find that most vegans believe that that title Vegan is much more of a lifestyle and philosophy and those who are not Vegan view it as a dietary restriction. So it's an interesting, you know, disconnect, if you will, that I think is solved by defining terms, which is I think we should do more of across the board in all of society and civilization. Defining one's terms would clarify a lot of things. I want to jump quickly into the podcast. I know we're kind of coming in on time, but I loved it and I loved listening to it. And again, I spoke with Bettina, who is on this podcast series a few weeks back.

 

[00:40:14] And I told you off the air and I kind of want to bring it back on to record right now. What I liked about it is I'm kind of picky with my podcast. It's not just because I'm a podcast host, it's because I care about information and knowledge. And then I also, you know, I care about show person, ship and flow and those types of things. And I really like your podcast. I've listened to four of them. And I think there's seven or eight total that I could find online. And I want to know when it was founded. But I really I have to put it out there that I think that the flow of information is very succinct and different. And you would think that it might be the same. I thought, oh, they're both going to be saying the same thing and simply agreeing with one another. And it's simply not what happens. You just have such different perspectives on things that you bring and augment. And then when you bring your guest on as well, I think it's just this kind of beautiful round table and you're keeping your times tight at like 20 minutes. I have to applaud you for all of those things, but I want to know when you launched it and how you kind of develop what you're going to speak about around it, because you come into some very core topics about Vegan food, Vegan culture, you know, aspects of nutrition, all of those things. So how do you curate the show? When was it founded and how do you continue moving forward?

 

[00:41:27] So we started just recording. I think it was October last year, and then it took some time, as I'm sure you know, it's that get the guest Pennsylvanian actually available. And on the show, the producer sort of edited a little bit and then just to cut out the repetitive stuff. And then it launched in January. And then we basically launched one every week for, you know, six, seven weeks. So actually, in terms of the content, it's really quite organic because petite and I know each other really well and have quite a good sort of. Bantry dynamic, sort of slightly challenging each other and definitely aren't sort of too polite and were happy to disagree with each other. I think that's sort of naturally works. And that's really why we thought that we might be okay doing a podcast together. And then we just sort of think about what we would love to hear and what we think the audience would love to hear from the person that were having on the podcast. And of course, it doesn't necessarily always go to plan because, you know, people it's conversation and people, you know, say whatever they want, but that's what we do, really. So it's really quite organic. And we didn't necessarily know know. We didn't. We did. We did it. Yeah. Point intuitively, I would say. So if you think it's good that that's what it is.

 

[00:42:51] I idea. And I'm picky. I think it's magnificent. I always have to preface that I am really pick and picky with my fashion and my podcasts. I cannot I don't have any leeway there, so I really do enjoy it. I hope everyone gets on. Where can everyone find it? You can find it on your website. You guys are on iTunes.

 

[00:43:05] You're on Spotify, all the normal places. Yeah. And it's called something. So a bit cheeky. Yeah. Gotcha. I love it a lot. Yeah. I think it's appropriately titled too.

 

[00:43:19] And it's it's easy to remember. I like that, you know. And the name I'm wondering as we wrap up today, I wish we could talk longer. I always wish that.

 

[00:43:30] But with you particularly so I'm wondering how what you think I do want you to be brazen here, because I think that those are kind of the best answers and people are afraid to talk about the future, particularly more so now. But where do you see some of the biggest changes and movements happening for the Vegan industry in so much as it affects health as as a subsequent effect from diet and and food? Where do you see the next five to 10 years playing out? If you had to kind of surmise from everything you've experienced thus far.

 

[00:44:10] Honestly, I don't know.

 

[00:44:11] I think the world is in such flux at the moment. I mean, I think that, you know, the ground for me, I feel it's shifting by the day. So things which felt normal and you can maybe make prediction last week. Something is happening today and everything's changed, so.

 

[00:44:29] But I do feel that on the whole, people are just becoming way more aware, you know, in terms of society and health, in terms of that diet, in terms of, you know, ethical and moral decisions. And, you know, I think this lockdown situation has given people the headspace to actually think about things in a way that isn't important. You know, what do I want to do?

 

[00:44:52] Am I going to change things?

 

[00:44:53] And you know what's good, what's good for the planet, what's good for me. But, you know, am I do all this stuff and I don't need to be doing it. So I don't know. I'm really hopeful because I think that.

 

[00:45:04] Yes, it's like it's like a weird reset and people thinking things much more.

 

[00:45:10] And also in terms of sort of what food people are cooking more, so they're thinking about what they're putting on the table, having to think about it, you know, three times a day and getting more engaged with it. So so generally, I think I'm I mean, I didn't think, you know, being a strength was going away anyway. But just because people are much more conscious and aware now, I think, ever before. I think you just continue to grow.

 

[00:45:37] I agree with you.

 

[00:45:38] And I think the demystification of food and the the re conversation that people are having with the food that they thought they knew, you know, is is part of that beautiful natural evolution that you describe happening. That is, it wasn't going away before and is probably augmented with the most recent endeavor.

 

[00:45:58] Well, Niki, we're out of time, but I want to say thank you so much for all of your conversation today. I really enjoyed it. And I hope everybody tunes in, listens to your podcast, jumps on your website and checks out your cookbook.

 

[00:46:09] Thank you so much for having me. All of it. Absolutely. And for all of you listening, thank you so much for giving us your time.

 

[00:46:15] We have been speaking with Niki Webster. She's a cookbook author, food consultant and stylist. She just had her first book come out. Rebel Recipes. And you can also jump online. W w. W. Rebel recipes, dot com. Check out her podcast from there as well. She's got a ton of wonderful YouTube, blogs, recipes, consultancy information. There's so many great things. And thank you for giving us your time today until we speak again next time.

 

[00:46:40] Remember to stay safe, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte.