Talking with Katrina Fox; Journalist, Author, Founder & PR consultant

Today I am speaking with Katrina Fox. Katrina is an award-winning journalist, publicity consultant, editor of the vegan business blog VeganBusinessMedia.com, host of Vegan Business Talk podcast and author of Vegan Ventures: Start and Grow an Ethical Business, the first global book providing success strategies for aspiring and existing vegan business owners, and founder of the Plant Powered Women’s Network global ethical leadership community. 

 

Key points addressed were  

• Katrina’s animal advocacy and how her written journalist and book work have all been in effort to aid the core tenants of that advocacy
• We also discussed many common issues vegan businesses have in regards to PR and market engagement and how she has designed tools to dissolve these problems and enable vegan companies to thrive.

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:01] In this episode, I speak with journalist, author, founder and PR consultant Katrina Fox. Key points addressed were Katrina's animal advocacy and how her written journalist and book work have all been in effort to aid the core tenants of that advocacy. We also discussed many common issues Vegan businesses have in regards to PR and market engagement and how she has designed tools to dissolve these problems and enable Vegan companies to thrive. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Katrina Fox.

 

[00:00:43] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:40] Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Katrina Fox. Katrina is a journalist, author, founder and PR consultant. You can find out more about her services as well as everything we talk about in today's podcast at w w w dot. Katrina Fox dot com as well as w w w dot Vegan business media dot com. Welcome. Katrina.

 

[00:02:04] Hello, Patricia. It's a pleasure to be with you today all the way across the pond.

 

[00:02:10] Thank you. Katrina earlier today, I'm excited we could make our schedules work as well. I look forward to diving into everything that you're doing, just talking off the air that Katrina is kind of based her consultancy in an industry that I think is going to blow up and is already blowing up, but perhaps even more so.

 

[00:02:29] For those of you that are new to the podcast. I will give you a brief bio on Katrina before I ask her to further elaborate on that and her history and then get into some of her current endeavors. But before we get to that, a quick roadmap for today's podcast. We will look. As I said, it triggered some of Katrina's past histories, professional, academic, anything that ties into her current story as it pertains to what she's doing now. I'll also ask her to unpack her personal Vegan journey as it pertains to all of the areas that we'll be talking about today. And then we'll look at unpacking Katrina's work in three different sectors. Namely, we'll look at her podcast, her book and her online courses, and we'll see if we can kind of suss out her ethos and business philosophies as they stand within that. Before we do those three things, however, we will also ask Katrina to kind of decipher and self-defined key terms that tend to create heated debate and topic within the Vegan world and community will climb upon those just asking for some personal definitions. So we all have clarity as to how we're defining things. And we'll wrap all of the podcast up with advice for those of you that are looking to get involved with Katrina, as well as maybe some of the predictions that she has for the next five or so years on the horizon. Things have changed greatly over the world landscape with the covered 19 pandemic. So this is an area that's changed a lot for people when they go to look forward. As promised, before I start peppering her with questions, a quick bio. Katrina Fox is an award winning journalist, publicity consultant, editor of the Vegan business blog Vegan. Business Media dot com, host of Vegan Business Talk podcast and author of Vegan Ventures Start and Grow an Ethical Business. The first global book providing success strategies for aspiring and existing Vegan business owners and founder of the plant powered women's network Global Ethical Leadership Community.

 

[00:04:20] Oh, can I Pause you there. Sorry. That must be an old bio. It's actually now called the Vegan Women's Leadership Network.

 

[00:04:27] OK. All right.

 

[00:04:28] There was a trademark issue. So I changed the name. It's called the Vegan Women's Leadership Network. Sorry about that. I thought I'd updated the BIOS ladder first there.

 

[00:04:38] Anyway, better. So well done. She has. Let's see. She's written extensively for niche and mainstream media for 18 years on animal advocacy, ethical business and was a regular Forbes contributor for years specializing in writing about Vegan and plant based businesses. A Vegan of 22 years, Katrina teaches Vegan business owners how to do their own PR and get free media coverage through their signature on through her signature online courses and group coaching program begins in the limelight. A passionate animal advocate, Katrina one, the voiceless, the Animal Protection Institute Media Prize for her article, Speciesism The Final Frontier for Australian National Broadcaster. The ABC is the drum Web site. Her work has been featured in the books Circles of Compassion Essays Connecting Issues of Justice, edited by Wil Tuttle and Plant Power of Women. Pioneering female Vegan leaders share their vision for a healthier, greener, more compassionate world. Edited by Cathy Divine. She lives with her wife Tracey and loves glitter and Internet cat videos. And as I said before, you can find her on W WW Katrina, Foxconn and Vegan business media dot com. So Katrina, before we kind of climb into all of the endeavors that you're currently involved with, as well as a book that I know came out in, I think 2015, I was hoping you could draw us a landscape of where you kind of came from regarding your academic and professional life and your personal Vegan story as it brought you into what you're doing now.

 

[00:06:13] Yeah, sure. So I've always had an affinity with animals, and I actually went vegetarian at the age of 11, although I didn't know the word. I asked my mum what the beef burger was made of that we would eat. And when she told me it was a cow. I was absolutely horrified. And I made the connection between the roast chicken on Sunday and the fish fingers. And so I just said, I'm not eating animals anymore. That didn't go down very well. So I was brought up in class at a working class family just outside of South London in the UK, where I'm originally from. But, you know, I stuck to my guns. It took me a while to get to veganism. It took me till about 1997, 96, 97, to learn about the dairy industry and the cruelty involved in all of that. But once the penny dropped, then, you know, I was all in. And, you know, I've been involved in animal rights activism as well as other social justice issues and in terms of professional career.

 

[00:07:05] For the first sort of part of my earliest of adult life, I basically was involved in performing arts. So my original degrees in performing arts and then around the Yes brand, about the similar time that I went vague and actually I retrained as a journalist. And so it worked on mainstream Masche and specialist trade media throughout my career, freelanced and written all pets on animal advocacy and other topics for mainstream media. And as you mentioned, they had a column in Forbes for a year writing about Vegan and plant based business. So I ran about to 2015 when I wrote the book was really when I tried to meld my I guess my my passion with my profession. And so I wrote the book because there was nothing else on the market specifically for Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs. And I interviewed over 60 Vegan entrepreneurs and waved their insights throughout the book, which is a how to guide on how to start and run a business of any kind to run it on Vegan principles.

 

[00:08:10] Then I decided to start a podcast because I love interviewing people. And once I finished the book, I was like, Oh, I've finished my interviews. I want to carry on interviewing people. So that's why I launched the podcast and then the blog. So I didn't really, to be perfectly honest, I didn't really have a business plan per say. I just kind of I just was drawn to doing these things. And I thought, well, I'll just kind of put them out there and I'll work it out as I go along. I'm not necessarily recommending that as a strategy, although I do know other business owners who have done something similar with different businesses. But that's just the journey that I went on. And then I created the course. I realized people needed to know how to get into the media and do PR.

 

[00:08:47] Not everyone's got a budget to hire a publicist or a PR firm. So that's why I created the online course. And now I do consulting and coaching and just working with my ideal clients, which I love, which are a Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs.

 

[00:09:02] Yeah, it's interesting you so you have this kind of gateway. It is as a young child into the vegetarian life, you know, through compassion and animals. What was do you think it was the same kind of moment of compassion and animals that led you on your Vegan journey, or was there a distinct difference between that and how it impacted? Because you have this unique view of, you know, being able to approach it from a business standpoint, too. And there's obvious relationships and correlations about sustainability that tie into good business measures and things like that. But what was the churn from you into switching from vegetarian to veganism, or was it kind of a natural progression?

 

[00:09:38] I only wish I would've done if I'd have known then what I knew about the dairy industry back when I was a child 11, I would have stopped eating dairy and stopped wearing an and all of it. So it was definitely my I've definitely come from. I know some people. I know you're gonna talk about terminology. I mean, a little bit. But if veganism is about doing the least harm as as is practically possible. You know, in terms of not using, abusing or exploiting or commodifying animals. And that's a paraphrase of the UK Bacon Society's definition back in I think it was around nineteen forty five. So that's basically ice by two veganism as a philosophy, as a way of living, of doing the least possible harm. So eliminating animal products as much as you practically can from your life. So I've been involved in feminist movement and when I was at college, at uni and when I was on an animal rights demonstration, actually about vivisection, about kittens being bred for baby section in the UK. And a lovely school teacher was on the coach of the bus taking us up to this demo in Oxford. And I pulled out my sandwich. I still would you like a Vegemite and cheese sandwich? And she said, Oh, no, I'm Vegan. I don't eat cheese. And I said, Oh, it's vegetarian. Cheese is no animal ran in it. And then she explained to me about the dairy industry and about all these myths of happy cows and what actually happens to cows, you know, the female reproductive system being hijacked and forced, you know, forcibly inseminated babies taken away from. And I was just shocked. And I was I was extra shocked because as a feminist that really, you know, as someone who obviously believes in, you know, women having. Body autonomy. I was just horrified and shocked and I thought, how did I not know this? How did I miss this? You know, I've been involved in and around sort of animal rights for a little while back in the late 80s. But I kind of I don't somehow miss the bacon memo then. So it was very much an ethical decision. And once I knew I was one of those people that pretty much went Vegan straight away. I mean, obviously, there were some things that needed to be phased out gradually but quite quickly. And I was obviously a privileged enough to do that in terms of shoes, you know, switching out the leather shoes. But food wise, it was pretty much I got home and I said to my wife, Tracy. Right. I said, we're now. I said, well, I'm vague. And I said, if you want cheese, you'll have to buy it yourself. I was responsible for doing the food shopping. And we kind of went from there. And I can tell you, it was 24 years ago now. I think I went Vegan. And back then it was it was quite tricky, especially in terms of the cheese. They were tasted rubber back then. So it's been pretty exciting seeing that developments that were going on, but very much an ethical decision for me.

 

[00:12:15] Yeah. And I have your your fellow country mate, Bhavani and I spoke some number months ago about cheese. Actually, I kind of I think I went off on a terror. Just Vegan cheese has been one of those things that in at least in my humble Vegan tenure of under a decade and the Greeks, God bless the Greeks because they were the first people that got, you know, Vegan cheese right for me. And I think it was their perception of olive oil and things like that. But it's over the past five years, it's the change of Vegan cheese has been astronomically to my life.

 

[00:12:46] It's so brilliant, isn't it? And we recently now in Australia, like Pizza Hut and Domino's of Pizzas with the Vegan cheese on. And it's just so nice. So I'm I deliberately have one, you know, like at least a couple of months just because I can I can lie after 24 years, I can finally have pizza with cheese on again. So yeah. And it's just amazing, all the brilliant products that are coming out that are, you know, just so realistic, full of flavor and just. Yeah, it's game changing.

 

[00:13:14] Speaking of products, this is a good gateway into kind of defining some terms. And I'd like to kind of jump right into the hottest one, which is how do you get between Vegan and plant based? What do each. What does each term mean independently to you and how do you define them?

 

[00:13:30] Yeah, it's an interesting one. I wrote a whole article for Forbes on that because it is such a, I guess, a hot potato. So Vegan as always. I think Vegan up until now, until it became I guess started to become more mainstream, more mainstream, started to accept a little bit more, became a little bit more, quote, trendy. It typically always meant, you know, the ethical side of things that you as someone who you know, who didn't eat or consume or where you know, any products that involved any kind of use of animals or animal ingredients, etc. Then when it started to kind of take off, people started to describe themselves as Vegan, whereas actually they were plant based. So the difference really for me in terms of plant based, plant based is when you eat it, it's very much based on food, because generally think about plant based shoes, for example, a plant based fashion, but it's typically what you eat. And it's kind of about you. It's not you know, typically people go plant based for health, for example, or perhaps for the planet. Some people might go plant based for the animals, but typically it tends to be, you know, for your own reasons. And it's very centered around food. So someone could be eating plant based but still wear leather. So that could kind of give a little bit of a differentiation. Now, unfortunately, what's happened is some companies, while using the term plant based to say, oh, it's mainly plants. And that's really frustrating because, you know, for most with plant based simply meant that you don't eat any kind of animal product. But now they're trying to kind of twist plant based a little, which is why personally, I love the word vague and because it literally kind of means, you know, you don't eat. I mean, sometimes people again, sometimes people are using the term Vegan when they mean plant based. So it can be a little bit of a mix up. But for me, Vegan is he knows it's someone who lives by the philosophy of veganism. So, you know, you eliminate animal use, ingredients, products, etc from all areas of your life, whereas plant based is more about eating food. And then of course, there's whole food plant based, which is people who don't eat, they don't have oil or gluten or a whole bunch of other stuff. To me, that's quite different to veganism. And how do you do?

 

[00:15:42] If I look at foods, I always say it's it's I feel like my Whole Foods brothers and sisters are the ones that talk about whether or not it's head of factory and like the Whole Foods people, if it's been industrialized or more than likely going to kind of shun it, you know, anything that had to be extracted or.

 

[00:15:59] Yes. Or processed. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of. Yeah. There are other terms that you or other ways you clarify Whole Foods. It's not really. I mean, I just see I mean, I see a whole mix actually, even on the whole food. Based, you know, like I subscribe to a male to live a plant based meal delivery service and some of the products that they describe as whole food plant based, you know, some of them got like some white rice or some basmati rice in. And I, I get a bit confused about that because I thought only brown rice is, you know, no. So I think, again, it tends to be different definitions. But I guess at one end of the this the stream around that is, you know, like like I say, no salt, no sugar, no oil, no gluten. For me, that's quite restrictive. And I, I don't like whatever people want to do as long as not eating animals. I don't care. But, you know, I will not post photos of my salad or my fruit shake because people know that. And I, I kind of want to get people over the stereotypes of what eating vague and particularly is. So I will post my pizza with its MLT egg and cheese. I will post my cheeseburger from all Vegan, you know, a burger joint, you know, because then people can kind of go, Oh, I can go Vegan, I can still eat burger, I can still have pizza, I can still have a bacon steak. You know, I can have all of these kind of things, you know, be on me. I've just got their new TV commercial out, which is brilliant and I love it. And the burger I got, it just looks like a regular burger. Thank goodness. Finally, you know, it's not some little lentil pâté that we've had since, you know, the whenever 70s and 80s. So, yeah, I'm kind of I will tip an oral poached chocolate cakes like naughty stuff. And it's not all I actually do eat really healthily. If you look to my social media, you would think I only eat junk food, but I don't. But I post that because I want people to know that, you know, they don't have to go from having their steak and chips to only eating salads and lentils. You know what I mean? They can still have their favorite foods. And arguably, you know, no one's trying to claim that, you know, these kind of things are all necessarily healthy. But I would still argue they're healthier than having the animal products, you know, the animal based counterparts anyway.

 

[00:18:14] And the founder of Impossible Burger did come out and say exactly that. You know that as well. It might be processed. It's definitely leaps and bounds ahead of the. Yeah. Alternative. I'm wondering, you your your industry, you help clients kind of define themselves and in addition to, you know, finding resources and getting good PR out and things like that, but it seems like you would do some advising work about really capturing or meditating on what, you know, one's product design and things like that. And you've mentioned this kind of it seems to be an industry based as well as kind of just individual company based. But whether or not people identify with the words plant based or Vegan, some people believe that Vegan is powerful and helpful. Others believe that it's exclusionary. And it's this kind of politicized term. It seems like I've spoken with a lot of Vegan clothing designers and handbag designers and they're very attached to the term Vegan leather because they said plant based leather doesn't actually make a lot of sense, which is funny because they're leather's directly. It's pineapple, the apple leather whose. But they specifically say Vegan leather, usually to get away from PMU, you know, the polyurethane that that isn't sustainable and environmentally friendly. And I'm wondering when you go to advise your clients this this role where you kind of help them qualify and quantify and you begin the PR process with them. Is this a conversation you're frequently having and is it industry based or is it very company by company based as to what term you help them identify with and use?

 

[00:19:46] Yeah, I've got a whole chapter about it in my book, as well as well as writing the article on Forbes, where I expanded on it somewhat. And it really does depend on the business, I always say. And I asked people that question on my own podcast, Vegan Business Talk, why they choose to use the term Vegan or plant based or otherwise and why. And there's no wrong or right answer. It really depends on the company. It's definitely it's not industry wide because, for example, you've got me Kerschner Chinna, who uses Vegan loud and proud. She's got a big tattoo on her arm. You know, she is all about branding and marketing. The packaging is got Vegan up front because she wants to demystify the word Vegan and have it be associated with lovely things. In her case, you know, amazing Chazen and Vegan butter. And then there are others like beyond maids and other brands that specifically don't use Vegan, or they might have it in tiny letters. And that's an option, I think, for products that are package. You can have the word Vegan in very small letters on the back for people like me who want to know it's big and who will look for it. But then you can have plant based, you know, as the, you know, one of the key descriptors. So it really does depend on it depends on a couple of things. Who your market is. So, for example, my wife, Tracy's a clinical hypnotherapist, psychotherapist, doesn't have the word Vegan on her website anyway. She has sheep and cattle farmers come to see her. And depending on what they're coming to see her, she's also a natural path. You know, she's got quite a few of them on to Vegan, a plant based diet. So it does depend on who your target market is in terms of what words use and also as a founder, what your mission is and what you were comfortable with as well.

 

[00:21:20] Yeah, absolutely. It does it does seem like it would be case by case. It's weird, though, as that's changing. I feel like there's going to be even a third term proposed, I think, plant based with vegans. Now, most of the at least the passionate vegans that I know, they they don't like the term plant based because at least in the United States, it's become very kind to fortified. You know, in the 90s, in the 80s, all of these these fortified cereals and things where they were ripping it out of its stripping it of its real content and then just shoving vitamins and minerals back in there and the same things, plant based. You flip over over a package and it's not Vegan at all. You know, they've they've thrown. They've infused it with some kind of a plant based material.

 

[00:21:59] And so, yes, that's that's what I meant when I said earlier about the term plant based is, you know, it's starting to become twisted and hijacked. So. Yeah, yeah. And they could well be. I mean, we're seeing a little bit of not necessarily with food, but plant powered, you know, there's the whole free from movement. So sometimes, you know, we've seen animal free. Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens in terms of terminology. But I guess I mean, for me personally, like for my own business, obviously I love the word Vegan because it's kind of in everything that I do, but everybody's different. And at the end of the day, if it gets people to stop consuming animals, use whatever term you like.

 

[00:22:39] Yeah. That's the goal, right? Yeah. The humane washing in greenwashing. In fact, that has been kind of come up and labeled by I don't know if it's GenZE or the millennials, but I love looking at the sociology behind all of those terms. I want to turn now to unpacking the kind of the three cause of what you do. So first one to unpack what you've gotten into the book a little bit. But I was hoping as an author when you were writing it, you know, I find coming from a family of authors that there's there's two scores, at least in my lineage, and there's ones that couldn't possibly stand to think about the audience because they would never publish. And then there are ones that keep the audience in mind the whole way through. And I was wondering if you were keeping your audience in mind when you wrote it. And if so, if you can pull out five or six of the main core tenants that you really hoped the take home would be.

 

[00:23:28] Sure. Well, I definitely have my audience in mind, so for this particular book. So it's it's my first book on my own. That is it. I have coauthored and I've also coedited a couple of anthologies in a completely different field. So I've been published by mainstream media, by mainstream publishers, traditional published in the past. For this particular one, I basically because I wanted to move into this field, I started hanging around with entrepreneurs who were asking me how do I get people to get into the media? And then I thought of the people I really want to help Vegan entrepreneurs. I must be a book about that. And there wasn't. So I thought. Right. I guess that's a sign from the universe. I need to write it so because it was a very practical book. I very much had my audience in mind. So my audience was mainly aspiring Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs. But I also wanted to have enough in there for existing Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs as well. So for those who haven't yet set up a business, you know, it's got all the stuff about how to set up the structure, what your Y is, you know, staff. And then there's also marketing, PR and branding, which is helpful for anyone who's starting out. But also a lot of the existing Vegan entrepreneurs. I've found those particular chapters quite helpful. And also, I waved in as I did over 60 interviews with Vegan entrepreneurs in all different sectors from across the globe. And I waved some of their insights throughout the book. So so I very much have my audience in mind. And that the aim really is to I guess one was to inspire more people to start a Vegan run business, because basically, I think I say in the beginning in the intro, my mission with this book is Vegan World Domination One Business at a time, because I think as an animal activists, which I do consider myself, I think it's so, so important we've got to have Vegan products easily and accessible both financially and physically so people can get these products. We've got to make it as easy as possible for people to be able to buy their Vegan makeup, skin care, fashion, food, etc.. So that was one of the key things that I wanted, was to inspire people, to give them ideas. So that's why I interviewed quite a few of the Vegan entrepreneurs, because some people would say to me, I want to start a business, but I'm not sure what kind. So that kind of Gibson's my ideas. And then basically the book is really kind of a step by step guide for people to get going and to at least avoid some of the pitfalls. I think as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, of course, you're always going to make some mistakes. But I think when you equip yourself, you know, with as much information as possible, you can at least avoid some of the key pitfalls, too, you know, to go ahead and start a business and run it on Vegan principles. Yeah, it was your advice applicable to people with products or products and service, all products. And so I wanted it to be very universal. So whether you were making products in any sector, you know, any kind of product, not just food and also. Yeah, for people who are offering services as well. So there's quite a range of interviews with with a mix and mix of entrepreneurs from from all different sectors, service providers, product makers, etc..

 

[00:26:38] Did did the book give birth to the online course or coincide or was it. How did that like how did that all play out timeline wise?

 

[00:26:49] Yeah, I think I sort of touched on earlier. I really didn't have a plan, to be honest. You know, sometimes you just get a gut feeling that you've got to do something. And I just knew that I had to do the book. And I gave myself a deadline of a year from conception to publication. So that was a really full on year. And once the book was out, I mean, I think I did put like a thing at the back a bit like, you know, you can contact me for a consult, but I hadn't really built the business around it. And so the podcast came next. And then the Web site came and I started producing, you know, some extra content, some blog posts. I took some extracts from the book and turned them into a blog post to kind of put them out there. And then I, I, I thought, right now I'll add an online course in there. So that's the kind of the timeline. So it kind of, I guess, really stemmed with the book. Then the podcast consulting and coaching, which I've added some of the coaching packages of, actually added quite recently. But I've been doing the know the consulting and I've done some done for you PR services as well. So do you still, though, it's kind of happened organically and I guess it sounds like it's working.

 

[00:27:59] So that's good. Did you do one consulting? Do you still take clients on on a one on one or is it turns me.

 

[00:28:06] Yeah. Yeah, I do. So basically, if somebody does a lot of free information on the website, on the blog and in the podcast as well, people.

 

[00:28:15] So they get a you know, it's basically the podcast is a free training tool really, because, you know, entrepreneurs that I interview were very generous in sharing their challenges and their strategies to success. There is a lot of free information there. But if someone wants. Taylored, one on one advice on an as and when basis, so there's no long term commitment, they can just book like a one off hourly consult with me. We do that by Zoome video. And then I will take on a limited amount of one on one coaching clients. If it's if it's a fit because that's obviously a lot more intensive where I'm working with them, I might be looking at their copy, giving them no strategy and tips and advice and we get on regular calls and stuff. I may introduce them to some of my connections, you know, try to get them. I don't really did the dunk for you PR in terms of the coaching services, but I've recently got, for example, one of my clients, a regular column on Vetch economist because she's a specialist in a particular field. So, yeah. So that's that's kind of what I do at the moment. And then there's the online course and plus the new project, the Vegan Women's Leadership Network is is something I'm doing as well, which is a membership, global membership based ethical leadership community for Vegan women to help them become leaders. So we have live webinar trainings, just the members, the premium members for that. So what a busy.

 

[00:29:38] It sounds like it. What about female identified or non binary individuals? Can they join the Vivienne's women literacy course?

 

[00:29:44] Basically, anyone who supports it can join. It's very inclusive. My partners involved trends, activism. She's a trans woman, so I'm very, very inclusive. And I've written that's the other areas I've published in and written about. Right, for the gay press. And I was one of the first journalists in Australia to write about non binary people and sex and gender diverse people. So, yeah, it's a very inclusive network.

 

[00:30:08] Yeah, it sounds like it. I can't wait to look into it further. And I like like I said, I like the new name even better. Getting into Vegan business talk. Your podcast. So when you. I like to talk to other podcasts. I think it's fantastic because in the States in particular, but I find globally still I consume podcasts, you know, versus wait. But I think that it's and it's still the Wild West. It's still very you know, it's anything goes. Any time, any subject, any format, people can start off very formal and within a season become very informal. It kind of spans the gamut. Do you have a structure to yours? How do you cure rate it? How many times a week or a month did you release it? And when you started out, did you have any of those things figured out?

 

[00:30:54] Yeah, it's evolved a bit over the years, I will say. I mean, I started there. I think it is about 2016. So it was. Yeah, early 2016, I think. And the book was published late 2015. That was a few months in between. I think initially I kind of went, right, I'm gonna do this. And I think I kind of, you know, was doing it weekly. As time has gone on, I'd shifted it to fortnightly, which I know Americans don't always know what a fortnight is apparently. So it's every two weeks. I just I didn't know there wasn't a term in America. And then sometimes it's gonna allow kind of some podcast host to have seasons. And I think that in a way that's quite clever, like you do a season and then you have a pause. But I've kind of gone away through I've kind of had a couple of hiatuses, like I had one recently when I was launching the Vegan Women's Leadership Network, and now I've come back to it. So I'm aiming to put out show every couple of weeks in terms of the structure. I'm actually I'm actually changing that a little bit as well. Previously, I would prerecord the bio on my own and after I'd done the interview and have the bullet points and then I would also have some news at the end. But from going forward, it she from the next interview that I'm doing, which is very shortly, I'm changing that slightly. I'm gonna do some it's similar to what you're doing where I actually introduce the guest on the show itself and I'm missing out the news because there's so many. Back when I started the podcast, there wasn't a lot of Vegan news out of Vegan business news outlets particularly. And now there is there's like a plethora of the mainstream media covering a lot of Vegan business news. So I'm missing that, BEYDOUN. And that's going to actually be less work for me to do. And the real value, I think, is in the interviews, you know, people typically say they can kind of get the news anywhere, but the real value is in the interviews. So basically, my my my criteria is that businesses ideally would have been running for about three years. And the reason for that is because this particular podcast is giving other big and entrepreneurs insights into your challenges and success strategies that don't typically interview startups unless they've been in business and run their own business in other areas. And the reason for that is I think it can be quite easy to start a business, but maintaining it over a period of time is a lot more challenging. And I think you you've just got more to give and more to share when you've been running your business for a little while. So that's my key criteria. But other than that, you know, as long as the business, the whole brand is Vegan completely bagan. And you've been running it for around about three years. I would typically interview. Entrepreneurs in all sectors, service providers, product makers, sometimes have specialists, some as well like specialist marketing or CEO, etc., people on to share. I will always try and source those first from the Vegan community. But I did. I think I had one woman on who wasn't Vegan, but she was a. really mega food scientist that I had on about three years ago. So I will occasionally have non Vegan guests on if they have know if I can't find their expertize anywhere else. And I feel like they've got a lot of value. The Vegan business owners can use. So, yeah, that's my structure at the moment as is. I'm just kind of shifting it a little bit going forward.

 

[00:34:09] And is your audience. Is it intended for Vegan business owners themselves or for everybody to educate?

 

[00:34:16] It's mainly for Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs, both aspiring and existing. Sometimes I might have. I've heard interview quite a few investors. You know how to get funding. It's a very practical podcast. Like, I really kind of we really kind of focus on, you know, what were their challenges when they started out? What are the challenges now? How are they handling them? What marketing strategies are they using? How is it funded? If they've got investment, how did they get investment? It's very practical. It's literally like they're almost like little mini training courses almost, but they're done in kind of interview format. So it is very practical. So I'm not sure that anyone who's I mean, look, if someone's got an inkling or, you know, perhaps in the back of their mind and they're nowhere near getting started yet, but they know that maybe one day they would like to start a Vegan business and run a business and run on Vegan principles, they might tune in, but otherwise it really is for. Yeah. Aspiring and existing Vegan business owners.

 

[00:35:14] Nice. Absolutely. All right. I wanted to quickly unpack the Vegan Women's Leadership Network. So you've just kind of it sounds like, you know, you've just kind of built, launched, renamed it rebranded maybe. Tell us what it is. What is the network for? I mean, that you've clarified that it services everybody who's who wants to be included. But what does it do? What is the network about it? Does it meet? What's its functionality, all of that?

 

[00:35:41] Yeah, sure. So basically I pre launched it in the middle of a pandemic. So pretty much during lockdown. I I've been working with a business coach and because I knew I wanted to do something else in addition to baking business media. And so it kind of we came kind of full circle as I have been involved in the women's movement and feminist movement. So we kind of came up with this idea and it was gonna be a physical event in London, actually, original plan. But then obviously Cobbett 19 happened. And so I thought, right, I'm going to look prelaunch. I'm gonna see if there's. I knew it had to be sustainable because in the past, I've launched projects out of pure passion, but they haven't been sustainable. And I end up getting burnt out. And then, you know, things come to an end. So I knew that this had to be sustainable. So it's a paid a membership based global ethical leadership community for Vegan women. And it's to provide them with resources to help them become leaders in their field, whatever that looks like for them. So it's not it's for big business owners and entrepreneurs, but it's also for people who work in the corporate sector, work in a job, working entertainment, sport, any sector work for NGOs. And what we provide. So I put it out there. I put the prelaunch out there just to see if it was staged. I thought if I get a certain amount of women by this date, then I'll go ahead with it and get the, you know, the website and membership site. Bill and I got the numbers. I was pleasantly surprised even during lockdown, you know, when people were losing their jobs left, right and center are still able to attract, you know, a number of women who said, yes, this is so needed. This is the perfect time to be launching this. So got the Frontin website and the membership POOLESVILLE. And essentially what we have at the moment, we have regular virtual meet ups via Zoome, and that's proved to be really popular because the women are really getting to know one another. And this collaboration is happening left, right and center. People are really supporting one another. And then we've got live webinar trainings on a number of topics around kind of leadership, self leadership, quite broad there. And we've got the front facing website. We have got something else coming up, which I can't say quite at the moment. But that's gonna be, I think, quite exciting. And yeah, and we're we're looking we're also working with VegFest UK. We've partnered with them to elevate women's Vegan women's voices.

 

[00:37:58] So providing, you know, Vegan women with opportunities to present and to speak. And I'm hosting a couple of panels with Vegan women. One's on Bakan Women in business. One's on how to find your voice as a leader in the bacon and animal advocacy movement. So it's really about supporting Vegan women, elevating them, providing them with resources and connecting with them so that they can collaborate.

 

[00:38:22] That sounds exciting. And it's just in its infancy. That sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. Will you after there is add and add a cure? Will you go to back to opening up to like a physical event, or do you think you'll keep it virtual just because this is the space you're in now?

 

[00:38:41] Well, it's an interesting one, because, I mean, I do like virtual because it is like this community is very global. Yes. The majority of women at the moment from the US. But then there's plenty of women from the U.K., all different countries in Europe, Asia Pacific. Women are joining. So I like the virtual obviously is is good because it's easy in some ways. You just kind of get on your computer and get get women together. But I'm certainly not ruling anything out. I mean, I say I love I do love to go to to go back to my hometown of London. I love to go to New York. So, you know, I am certainly not ruling out some kind of physical event, either a stand alone event or being part of a bigger show, because, you know, it is nice to just kind of hang out with people and physically meet them. So I think down the track when we you know, I'm not sure when that will be, but I think we will do some kind of fiscal events as well.

 

[00:39:36] Exciting. All right. Well, we're almost running out of time. Katrina, which is to save a million questions, but I want to get to fire questions. And I neglected to tell everyone in the roadmap. But we have a lot of you writing in and asking us questions. And we have a team of people that have put them together in different categories. And so I'm going to we've combined a lot, but I'm going to just get a few that people who write in who want us to ask people of your expertize in specific about the Vegan world. And one of the first ones is what is the number one mistake you see most Vegan businesses making? I think this was more. We had a bunch of questions about ones that have products. So products across the board. But what do you feel like? What are the number one PR mistakes that Vegan businesses that you run into make, not putting aside a budget for marketing and PR?

 

[00:40:24] I see a lot of Vegan businesses putting a lot of time and effort into their product, which of course you need. Do you want to get a good quality with it? Is a product out there or if it's a service, you want to make sure you're giving value to your clients, whatever you do. But a lot of them, I'd say a second mistake would be underestimating budget required. I think you always need to at least triple what you plan to spend. Whether that's, you know, for machinery, equipment, etc.. But put some kind of budget aside for marketing and PR. Yes, you can do a lot organically, of course, and everyone jumps on social media and what have you, and that can be be good. But I think it's always good to have some kind of budget, whether you use that for paid ads or for PR or for some kind of digital marketing. I think that's really important because you can have the best product to the best service in the world. If no one knows about it, then you got a business.

 

[00:41:13] Okay. And along the same lines, you've had a lot of people write in and say, what is the number one thing that a small business, small Vegan business can do on their own to really help their bottom line with PR like this, some bad technique or a tool or posting or anything along those lines?

 

[00:41:29] Yeah, I think learn how to do your own PR so so that you can actually pitch yourself to media. So, you know, certainly, yes, you can hire a publicist or a PR firm if you've got that kind of budget, which is several thousand dollars a month. A lot of small businesses don't have that. So learn the tools and techniques and tips. You can get that information for free on the Internet. Obviously, you know, little plug, you can do my course, but, you know, you can find that information out on how to pitch to the media and get into, you know, find out what target media is best for you and and how to approach journalists, because that can really help, I think, getting media coverage. And, of course, having a presence on social media. Make sure your way, your audience is and show that behind the scenes stuff and tell your story. You know, see, I'm not just kind of every post is by this, by this, by this, but showing people who you are. Brand storytelling, I think is really important nowadays as a founder, don't you can no longer afford to hide behind your business. You know, you're no longer the faceless founder. You need to be there front and center. Let people know who you are. And remember, not everyone will love you or your product. And that's okay. You're not trying to serve everyone. Nobody can serve everyone. You're trying to attract to you the people who who feel passionate about you and your brand and will want to support you.

 

[00:42:51] Right. Right. And I will say to kind of further that plug that I did appreciate your I'm you to take three minutes, maybe two and a half minutes on YouTube, kind of explaining Vegan, Vegan business, media, like the course and what it means in the limelight begins in the limelight and and what the course was about. And a quick synopsis that really imparted a great deal of information. I felt like what you were going to give your people, including interface, you know, and and how there's question and format, but it's this more loose for the calendar online and things like that. I think it did a good job of answering that for anyone who's thinking about it. And you can jump on it seems great. Absolutely. We do a lot of people right in asking if I'm OK. A lot of going along the same lines. Social media do end this kind of delineation between founder and. Yes, I don't think the younger generations think that that needs to or even could exist anymore either, which I agree with you, I don't think it can or would a lot of people wonder if they should be linking up their business and their their personal accounts. This kind of communication between the two people talked about, you know, linking one to the other or probably closing one down. There was a lot of questions as to what you would advise on that level, because it's a Vegan business and they've been a Vegan individual.

 

[00:44:08] Yeah, it's an interesting one. And again, I think it comes back to the terminology question that you asked, and there's it's going to be different for everyone. So, for example, I do know people who have got their own personal, but they have a personal Facebook account and they've just got a handful of literal family and friends like people that they know. And that's just for sharing their personal stuff. And then they've got their business page, which is totally separate and that that can work for them. But then like someone like me, I've got my personal Facebook. Everything I post is public and I've also got my various pages. And I think when you're, I guess, a personality, for example, then. I think what you can't assume that people won't find out what you've posted on your personal side. For example, if, say, you were running a Vegan brand and then you posted a pay, I don't know, the weekend you or a plant based branch to send in the way. Can you post a picture? You've been trophy hunting or whatever on your personal Facebook. That's obviously going to be, you know, a complete mismatch. And just because it's on there, like someone may still see it on screen, grab it. Same if you're going into groups, for example, say you're hanging out and Vegan groups on Facebook, for example, as you as you want your personal account, then people will screen grab it, even if it's a so-called private group. So I think you need to be wary of or be aware of what you put on your personal social media. Don't assume that what you put on. So when your personal stuff won't somehow be connected with your business because it can be so, just be wary. But having said that, I do think it's nice for people like if you are willing to put yourself out there. It can be nice for people to say, oh, look, here's, you know, so-and-so in their family and their cat or dog, what have you. But just be aware of that. My rule of thumb is don't post anything in public, whether on social, on your website, that you wouldn't be happy for anyone to say in five years. Now, five years and 10 years time, like I am so glad. Social media didn't exist. It's for example. So that's my kind of rule of thumb. You know, be comfortable with what you're sharing, but be aware that, you know, it could be connected with your business.

 

[00:46:23] Yeah. And finally, we had a lot of people write in and I have my own personal take on this. I'm interested to hear you have to say we've a lot of people talking about sponsorship, and I'm assuming they also mean partnership. But regarding their brands and other this kind of, you know, uniting to be a stronger voice together, there are people asking for your personal business advice in regards to reaching out for a sponsorship or partnership with a young Vegan business.

 

[00:46:50] OK. So this sponsorship or investment, I'm not sure whether they mean I'm not quite sure what they mean about sponsoring it is typically a Vegan business would sponsor like a nonprofit, for example. So I don't know if they mean kind of help, financial help or investment or fundraising.

 

[00:47:10] There's a lot of advice in the States right now. Kind of casually whispered, I would say through the grapevine that I'm not sure I can hear a voice that's actually saying it. But this idea of becoming a partner or a sponsor. There are new platforms. In fact, there's new startups where, you know, they're joining people together, particularly women and women, identified businesses and things like that, and kind of bringing two disparate groups together to have a greater reach, if you will. So though, you know, there are these companies that are matchmaking, like cosmetics with a new Levi's, you know, company and bringing them home. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. And people that are now hearing that and writing and going, what does it all mean? I get it. Should I be doing this? Do I need to reach out for sponsorship? And we've had a lot of people ask, you know, what's the terminology around and ask like that. So if you had a client saying, listen, I want to reach out to a partner or ask someone to sponsor me or let's just say partner up with somebody to encourage increase your reach. How would you advise they go about that?

 

[00:48:11] Yeah, I think you've always got to look at what is in it for them, not just what's in it for you. A lot of the I find with with small business owners and I find this particularly around PR as well, is like they're like, oh well, I want free publicity for my products and services. That's not a journalist's job. And the same with a partnership. If you're gonna go to someone and say, right, I would like this, I would like us to partner because I want this, this and this. You've got to say, well, what's in it for them? And that's particularly if you're then approaching someone who's already got a big platform and has already got a big market. You know, why should they help you? What's going to be in it for them? So I think that's a really important thing. What can you offer them? Why would this partnership be a positive thing for both? So I think that's my advice, particularly with a larger company. So, you know, if you were looking to partner with a larger company and they perhaps haven't got into a plant based or they just kind of dipping their toe in it, you know, you can kind of go in there and say, look, our product is innovative. You know, this is what we know about the plant by sector. And this is how I feel it could work. This partnership could work for both of us. When I wrote the book, I've got a whole chapter on collaboration, because what we're seeing, certainly with Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs is they've been collaborating for years and continue to do so. So, for example, there was one there were three Vegan shoe brands that all decided to share a store or a booth at a particular trade show or event. So they pooled their resources. Technically, they're all in competition. You know, they're all Vegan shoemakers. But obviously they that they're that different, you know, different products, slightly different. But they were technically all in competition, but they pooled their resources, bought this booth, and then they each staffed it at different times and promoted everybody's brands. Sometimes you might get a bacon cheese partnering with a vague, you know, some kind of cracker company to do a promotion. We've certainly seen a lot of that and in lockdown, actually. And I think Bhavani, who we've mentioned from the Green Line, which is a Vegan eatery here, has done that as well, and as well as a Vegan chocolate brand here. So they partnered with another company. I can remember what they were. It was like a savory and a sweet. So people would go and collect. They could order and then go and collect their savory and their chocolate treat together so that that can work to be it. It's all about the mutual benefit. And I think that's really important. So definitely focus on what's in it for them, rather them. I've got this great product on it. Money on eight marketing. I need support. Can you help me? You know, that's not gonna fly. Because they're gonna get lots of people that always think about what's in it for the other person.

 

[00:50:46] Yeah. And I think that's it's. So I think it's true for any good business measure, you know. Yeah. Business meeting to kind of look at the other point of view before you go in for the ask, the elevator pitch is really important. And and I think we all need to be very concise and very clear about what we're doing, you know, as as business owners or anyone kind of walking throughout today's world. But in that kind of gets lost in translation, the concept of like really listening and and ascertaining prior to meeting with somebody, you know, what they could possibly use you for as well.

 

[00:51:17] And then honing that pitch a bit. Yeah. Our final area of inquiry is kind of looking at the future. And this is I love this question. The further we get into this year, because it's changed so much for people on a daily basis. But as far as the Vegan industry, particularly someone like yourself, because you have this this bird's eye view of so many different companies that you're helping and advising and speaking to and all of these different areas and venues that you're involved with. And you and I were talking off the record a little bit on the record about. Now, hyperspeed, you know, the Vegan industry world seems to be in the past five years, 10 years, as opposed to 20 years ago. The 50 before it, I've written an article saying, you know, for the 50 before the last before the arts, it wasn't even a microscopic dot as opposed to what's happened in the past 10 years with just IPOs alone, economics, all of that. And then with that comes to follow suit of culture, all of these things. But for you personally. What do you do? You see a continuing with hyperspeed. Do you disagree with me on that in the next five years? Where do you see some of the biggest changes happening within the Vegan world? What are some of your predictions?

 

[00:52:28] Go to hell. Yeah. Cool. I loved it. I think I definitely agree with you. I think it's going to continue along with the hyperspeed that you mentioned, because of various reasons for human health, for sustainability, and also more and more people coming aware of animal welfare. I think we're seeing that. But we've got major investors. I mentioned on my website, I've got a whole list of Vegan and Vegan friendly investors, and I keep having to add to it. You've got Mioko, who's got no Kerschner of Yoko's. He's got investment from Ellen DeGeneres, and her wife, Portia. You know, we've got big name celebrities, Bill Gates, you know, really kind of big names who are getting on board with this even. And then, of course, you've got these big corporate companies who not don't necessarily have great ethics in terms of animals, people or planet, but they're kind of jumping in on this plant based brand. And they're buying up Vegan brands as well. And that can be, you know, see, there's pros and cons up with the pros, all the bacon products then get way more distribution and become way more available, you know, in places like Wal-Mart and, you know, these to make them more accessible. So I think we're kind of seeing that happening at the moment. We're kind of seeing these kind of partnerships, though, bedfellows that you wouldn't normally have seen. You know, all those years ago. I think potentially what's going to be happening and I know there's people working in the space is that they is that they're creating a vague and economy so that at some point we won't necessarily have to partner with these big brands or we will have an impact on how these big companies, corporations operate. We're almost like force them to be ethical because consumers will demand that they're not just going to be demanding cheaper products, but they want to know where the products came from, what the ethics behind the brands are. I think we're going to see more nations. We're already starting to see that. So in terms of, say, Vegan Italian, Vegan Indian, Vegan Mexican in terms of eateries, I think we're going to get even more and more niche. And I think and cheeses, I mean, we're just we talked about the earlier we're just at the cusp now. You know, if you look in the supermarket, how many dairy cheeses there are. So there's a lot of room in this category to provide animal free versions of all the different dairy cheeses. You've got companies like Perfect Day that are making dairy from bacteria.

 

[00:54:45] So they they're replicating the casing that is in regular dairy, but they're creating it from yeast and bacteria. So I think we're seeing a lot of high tech three day. We're seeing 3D printed steaks, for example, Vegan steaks. So I think the technology is going to continue and we're seeing, you know, billionaires, you know, investing in this kind of technology. So I think, yeah, we're going to see more IPO shows. I think it's just gonna get bigger and better. I think as well, the fashion space is really starting to come into its own. The big in fashion, partly as part of the overall sustainable fashion, the move away from the all the push to move away from fast fashion beauty. We're seeing celebrities when they are launching their beauty products, they might not be Vegan themselves, but they are producing their products as big and by default because it just makes sense. So, yeah, I think we're really kind of seeing Vegan tourists. I know of at the moment of this interview were in, you know, still in Cobbett 19. But, you know, there's Vegan tourism, Vegan travel. You know, I think veganism is is literally a Vegan interior design. That's another growing market as well. You know what you're using in your home. It's not just about eco friendly and natural and sustainable. It's also people want cruelty free now. So that's another growing market. So I think it's really exciting. I think that paganism is pervading everything. And to create a world where what we buy, what we consume is good for people, good for animals and good for the planet. And I. I love you, too.

 

[00:56:20] And I completely concur. I love the areas you're getting into, too. I'm gonna have to bring you back on because it's a huge passion as it. Yes. As a Vegan parent for Vegan children and I Globe-Trotting yearly and Vegan, I just don't there's not enough Vegan travel blogs for me. I think that there are some, but like people really speaking to people so much and happy cow. And I'm like, there's got to be more, we need more of them, you know. So I think that it's it's true and it's burgeoning and it's growing and it needs to be kept up to date and. It's an exciting time, and there's so many different industries, like you say, the fashions, a big one for myself as well. You know that the beloved daughter of England, Stella McCartney, is one of my most favorites. And she was one of the first in the major industry, I think, to actually come out and just say it's it's humane, it's right and it looks better. It's all those things. And I think that once we have more artists and people like that that are coming forward, really marriage, the ideas, it will just continue to fact track it all. I completely agree with you and I'm excited to venture into that future with you. That's going be. Absolutely. Thank you so much for meeting with us today. I really appreciate it. I know you're incredibly busy and I appreciate you taking the time and giving us some of your candor and information.

 

[00:57:30] It is a pleasure. I'm really great to connect with you and find out more about you. And it's been lovely chatting with you.

 

[00:57:36] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we have been speaking with Katrina Fox. She's a journalist, author, founder and PR consultant. You can find out more about her, all of her services, her books, her online courses and her podcast on both of her Web sites. W w w dot. Katrina Fox dot com as well as w w w Vegan business media dot com.

 

[00:57:57] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe, eat clean and responsibly and always bet on yourself. Slainte.