Investigating Vegan Life With Patricia Kathleen

Chatting with Jennifer Markell; Chef, Blogger, Founder, Owner and Operator of Vegan It Real Personal Chef Services

Today I am chatting with Chef Jennifer Markell. Jennifer is the creative mind behind the website and blog veganitreal.com and founder, owner and operator of Vegan It Real Personal Chef Services located in the Tampa Bay area. Since 2017 Jennifer has been standing at the forefront of the plant-based movement with a mission to “veganize” the planet, one meal at a time. As a certified holistic nutritionist and a certified plant-based chef, Jennifer embraces Hippocrates’ concept that “food is thy medicine and medicine is thy food.” She is driven by her passion to bring delicious and nutritious meals to hear clients’ tables along with the knowledge that real, whole food is good for the environment, the animal and your health!

 

Key points addressed were  

• Jennifer’s education and certification regarding nutrition and plant based whole foods within the arenas of vegan diets, cooking, and health
• We also discussed Jennifer’s collaborative efforts via her services as well as her prediction as to where she thinks the plant based and vegan food scenes are headed in the next 5 years

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with chef, blogger, founder, owner and operator of Vegan, it real personal chef services Jennifer Markell. Key points addressed were Jennifer's education and certification regarding nutrition and plant based Whole Foods within the arenas of Vegan diets, cooking and health. We also discussed Jennifer's collaborative efforts via her services, as well as her prediction as to where she thinks the plant based in Vegan food scenes, are headed in the next five years. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Jennifer Markell.

 

[00:00:41] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Acom, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:38] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Jennifer Markell. Jennifer is a chef, blogger, founder, owner and operator of Vegan Real Personal Chef Services. You can find out more on her Web site about herself, her services and everything we talk about today on her Web site. W w w dot Vegan it real dot com. That is BGA and i t r e l dot com. Welcome, Jennifer.

 

[00:02:05] Hi. So happy. I'm so happy to be here. It's so great to be here.

 

[00:02:09] Absolutely. I'm excited to climb through everything with you. I really love your web. I like the services that you offer. And I know our audience is really going to benefit from everything that we talk about today. For those of you listening, that might be news on this podcast. I will proffer a quick bio on Jennifer. But before we get to that, a roadmap for the line of inquiry, the trajectory that will that line of inquiry will go. We'll first look at Jennifer's academic and culinary nutritional background and training, and then we'll turn towards unpacking her personal Vegan story if it hasn't already been mentioned in the aforementioned. And then we'll unpack Vegan it real Web site, the services, info, education, collaboration, all of the kind of efforts that Jennifer has involved with that. Then we'll turn our efforts towards answering rapid fire questions. For those of you that are returning, these are questions that you have submitted to our Web site, w w w dot, Patricia, Kathleen, dot com and reached out. We always encourage our audience to ask questions based on any profession that we might run into if any of our series and we will get those up on air. And under that we will get to about seven to 10 rapid fire questions that some of you have for Vegan chefs and people in the Vegan food industry who wrap the entire podcast up with them. Thoughts that Jennifer has for things that may be on the horizon in the Vegan food scene and services and collaborative work in culinary enterprises and all that good stuff.

 

[00:03:27] So, as promised, a quick bio on Jennifer. Chef Jennifer Markell is the creative mind behind the website and blog, Vegan it real and founder, owner and operator of Vegan it real personal chef services located in the Tampa Bay Area since 2017. Jennifer has been standing at the forefront of the plant based movement with a mission to organize the planet. One meal at a time.

 

[00:03:51] As a certified holistic nutritionist and a certified plant based chef, Jennifer embraces Epocrates concept that food is a medicine and medicine is the food. She is driven by her passion to bring delicious and nutritious meals to her clients tables, along with the knowledge that real whole food is good for the environment, the animal and your health. So, Jennifer, I love, you know, a lot of your focus. I've looked through all a lot of your information across your social media accounts, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, on your Web site, of course. And you you really do hit that points hard. And so I'm really happy that it's in your bio, this kind of food, as they medicine, let it be as such. And before we climb into your Web site and some of the ethos and the philosophy behind it, I was hoping you could draw out a little bit further your academic and culinary and nutritional training that you've had that led you to launching Vegan.

 

[00:04:44] Oh, sure. Sure. So it's really, you know, one of those stories where I had spent almost most of my adult life until almost middle age in the corporate world.

 

[00:04:58] And after a horrible, you know, layoff in 2013, that was when I had an opportunity to reevaluate things and submerge myself into learning what it was.

 

[00:05:12] That was going to be my next step in life, my next career. And I wasn't going settle. So what I did was I started doing my own research on food. I learned a lot about organic food. And it was solely just self driven research podcast and TED talks and working actually part time for an organic farmer. So just moving myself closer to the food food systems, food producers. And then in two thousand and eighteen, early 2018, when my mother became ill, very, quite ill.

 

[00:05:55] I was really to the tipping point of deciding, you know, do I want to go back into the corporate world or really just take that leap of faith into my education and my knowledge and learning about food for medicine. So I enrolled in what I could at the time, what I was able to do for my work life balance. I was, you know, a mom of a mom of four kids, two of my own, two stepchildren. You know, I run a home and I had other part time work that I was doing so I couldn't just go and roll into, you know, the call the local college and become a full time student. And I couldn't go to culinary. Well, that was pretty much out of the question for me. So what I decided to do was investigate some holistic nutrition opportunities. There's a few out there and I enrolled in a six month training program that was fully online, a one on one coaching program through American fitness professionals and associates a f, p, a and graduated at top of the class for it with my holistic nutrition certification. So I really understood I had that piece, that credential to really tie food to the body. And I understood how food was both making a sick and healthy at the same time. But that wasn't enough for me. I knew that it worked well, but I really still only knew how to cook, you know, the vegetables that I was used to. And I really didn't know how to take advantage of all the great products out there.

 

[00:07:36] So then I decided to get a little bit of culinary credential and again, did a lot of investigative research, talked to a lot of chefs out there.

 

[00:07:46] What did they do? And again, knowing called actual culinary school was out of the question. I enrolled in Ruby R.O. you. It's so funny. Everybody thinks it's are you b y? But it's not. It's a French word. R o u x b e. And it was a Ruby International online culinary program and they had what was a very focused plant based culinary professional program.

 

[00:08:11] And it's a six month self-paced program where you have access to actual chefs through an interactive program online. So I was able to take that six month program, graduate within four months and really have a really great understanding of not only how food is for your body, good for your body, but also how to actually make it taste good and try to work to convert some of those folks who think that tofu and kale are bad and disgusting.

 

[00:08:46] So I really then I felt like, wow, I have a really good grasp on that knowledge. So, you know, it was important for me, even just when I was a blogger, but definitely when I was going into a culinary profession to have some kind of credential, I just didn't want I wanted to have that education. However, I could get it something that I could say, yes, I took the time to do that. And then just to kind of add on to that and we'll talk about the business in a minute. This year I went and received my certification as a food safety manager.

 

[00:09:21] So funny enough, in January of this year, I learned all about cross contamination and food safety. And now, you know, I could technically go in and, you know, open a restaurant and be part of that food safety and security part of it, because I've been certified there, too. So education was really important to me and I couldn't go mainstream. So I kind of piecemealed my education. And to this day, I just just get involved in lots of different research and my own driven research and try to keep a very diverse and inclusive set of resources that I go to that are also unbiased. That's one thing I learned in my training. Follow the source of the funding.

 

[00:10:07] Thanks. You know, I hope that answers your question.

 

[00:10:10] I'm curious, given that you have this NFPA mixed with Ruby, you know, so from from a layperson's term, NFPA sounds kind of like the holistic dietary, you know, nutrient side of it. And the ruby sounds like it was teaching as flavor you flavors technique, how to bring in some of, you know, those aspects to your cooking. And in that sense, I'm curious which one leads Flagship to your recipe development? Do you first think about nutrition or do you first think about flavor?

 

[00:10:41] OK. That's a great question and here's why. And here's why I developed Vegan it real and there's a story behind that. So I like to keep veganism real. So I, I started off really becoming focused on the nutrition and plant based piece of it.

 

[00:10:59] But then I realized the way to people and the way to maybe transform people's lifestyles is to keep the food real. So I then started focusing on the flavor side of things and the Shefi side of me kind of came out and I, I wanted to play with the new products out there and I wanted to see if I could fool my friends or my family with, you know, the latest plant based sausage. And so that's where I kind of got away from that Whole Foods plant based.

 

[00:11:34] No oil, salt, sugar menz. Ality, but still with that said. I try to really I don't submerge myself in, like, the deep fry and, you know, oil frying and things like that. So I'm very conscious. And I was so thankful for that training. But it's it's a great question because initially I thought I would go into that coaching about food for health. But then once I got into the kitchen and started playing with food, I couldn't get out.

 

[00:12:05] Yeah, it sounds like it sounds like a great love for flavor and the culinary arts. You know, that's those dimensions. Is it the French, the triangle of of spices or flavors that affect you? I can't remember. I was talking. It's not my forte, but I was speaking and chef one time when they were talking about the simplicity of patissier and things like that and really getting into the French flavors and the classical techniques that are developed around those very simple moments and deaths. It's an absolute art, you know. No doubt. No doubt about that. I want to kind of unpack Vegan it real for a minute now before we start getting into, like, the key components that someone will hit when they hit your side, some of the services you offer and the collaboration and things like that that I'm actually quite moved by. I want to first know personally how you define the terms plant based. You've gotten into the Whole Foods and how, you know, keeping it real was more an introductory and a conversion from people who were eating meat. But how do you personally define plant base as opposed to injecting position or next to defining Vegan?

 

[00:13:11] Absolutely. And it is confusing. And that's why I use. I usually say I'm a plant based vegan because veganism is really a movement.

 

[00:13:24] Veganism in itself is a movement. So when in vegans, you know, true vegans who are passionate about the animals and driven towards that activism will definitely call you to the mat on how you define yourself, you know? But so veganism itself is a movement. However, when you are when you eat a vegan diet, you will allow for those processed foods. So you might go get the annys mac and cheese and you might go get the Gardein bagged, frozen, you know, check on Nugget's, you know, the fake chicken nuggets and the plant based processed foods to incorporate into your daily life as a supplement when you are living a Whole Foods plant based lifestyle, those processed foods are very, very, very limited. If if you incorporate them at all. And it's funny because one of the things I learned in my research and doing my through my education and tea calling Campbell is a hero who who's book who whose books I have read, sometimes more than once. And in reading those types of resources and folks material, I didn't realize that you can still incorporate fish and meat and cheese into a plant based diet. Right. Plant based diet is really 90 percent of what you are consuming is whole. It's, you know, so whole grains. It's it's not your process greens. It's not your process. We test your whole wheat, your, your whole Raices, all of those foods and your fruits and vegetables. But it allows for a very small portion of animal based products. Veganism does not allow for any portion of animal based products. I mean, and so that's why as far as when I define myself, some people will relate more to the plant based side of things for the health. And some people relate more so to the veganism for the movement. And interestingly enough, I started to be plant based and Vegan for the health. And now I am holistically for everything, the animals, the health and the planet, because I have just learned so much. It's kind of you kind of have to embrace all three.

 

[00:16:00] Yeah. I feel like that's kind of the narrative that's really common along a lot of people's lines. You know, the gateway into what led to plant based vegan lifestyle. It starts to curing itself. You know, I, I just haven't spoken to a vegan who's been Vegan for five years that still trying to score, you know, the Gardein chicken stuff as much anymore. It starts to be right off. If they came at it from the environment, again, that has something to do with age and education. But I think that it's an interesting tie in. So given your personal Vegan.

 

[00:16:37] I mean, you've you went along this whole path you had. Did you have a health improvement when you came Vegan?

 

[00:16:43] Well, funny enough, I will say I'm novice, so I have only been completely Vegan for three years. It was three years. June 24th, I believe, was our anniversary. June 24th was my anniversary. And then my husband and my stepdaughter, me and her, her. Their anniversary is, quote, a goal. They say July 1st. So two thousand seventeen. So three years. I'm I'm I'm very, you know, very early in my veganism compared to some folks who I have come into contact with who have never eaten meat or have never eaten a plant based product or, you know, plant or I'm sorry. Animal based product before. So, you know, I have so much to learn and I never, ever want somebody things that I have it all figured out because I am not the expert. But I did notice changes and we noticed changes a lot, especially initially, because you think you're going to lose weight and you don't. Some people don't. And we gained weight. And then, you know, and then we felt, you know, bloated all the time. And so you start to question yourself in the commitment. Same thing with any other, you know, change or trying to make. And we did. And, you know, my husband had suffered for, gosh, since almost since the time I had met him in 2012 with what was called chronic to Carea, which is chronic hives. And you don't know why and you can't figure out why. Surely after I would say within six months to a year of going Vegan, his hives disappeared completely. And this is by no means and this is just my personal story. I have TMJ and I've had diagnosed and received cortisone shots for pre arthritis conditions, you know, pain and things like that. Wow, what a difference. I now I hardly ever have pain where I used to have pain. I'm not not saying that I don't get older and we don't have pains, but I just saw an overwhelming sense of. Feeling young. Just feeling better.

 

[00:19:02] I don't know how to describe in a lot of vegans, it's hard to describe. You just feel. And I. I almost think that there's a connection between the animal consumption and, you know, your your mind and where your head that because you just feel a little lighter. No pun intended. But over the course of three years, for instance, I do not. I eat as much as I want today without having to worry about a calorie. I don't. I try to just eat a little bit of everything that the Earth has given us. You know, every day I don't stress about what I'm going to, you know, if I'm going get on the scale and it's going to say five pounds heavier or not. Because I just know that's gonna all, you know, just just shake on it. And I have seen over the course of the first two years, my husband and I equally lost between 15 and 20 pounds. And people would look at us and they said, well, you didn't need to lose 15 or 20 pounds. But clearly we did because it it just you know, now we are at optimum weights, you know? I mean, I weigh less now than I did in high school as. And he's the same way. And we are you know, he's fifty one and I'm hearing that a hitch.

 

[00:20:19] Yeah. And there's, I mean there's future payoffs as well.

 

[00:20:23] I think, you know, the immediate health turnaround. I've never spoken with anybody who was under the age of 30 that didn't go from eating some kind of animal byproduct or animal based diet to Vegan that didn't have an alleviation from everything from occasional pains. Athletes that just have less inflammation to, you know, turnaround's of chronic issues, you know, with autoimmune and diabetes and all sorts of things that I'm certainly not the first to chronicle these. You know, there's them what the health and conspiracy and all of these stories that kind of implement that health aspect and people that dedicated their lives to it. But it is a common theme. And when you don't speak with anybody who doesn't have a story like that, it just becomes like, wow. And then there's the future. You know, there's there's less of Alzheimer's with, you know, with. Yeah, Vegan Dice's. There's correlation studies being done. There's just some of the things that come to get all of us in our older age seem to be at least a lesser extent, which is kind of a nice aspect in addition to saving the planet for our future generations, as well as being kind to other sentient beings.

 

[00:21:32] Oh, absolutely. And you hit the nail on the head. I had mentioned, you know, my mom was was very ill and she suffered from Crohn's disease for many, many, many years, many undiagnosed years as well prior to that. And along with some of her other conditions that I visibly expert, you know, saw and experienced firsthand in what she went through, I chose that, you know, to make a lifestyle change. I you know, I chose that. I didn't want to experience those things because a lot of Alzheimer's runs in my mother's side of the family. She had several sisters that were diagnosed with it as well. And you know it.

 

[00:22:15] You start to think, gosh, do I want to start taking pills to try to avoid these things that I could genetically, you know, inherit? Or do I want to change those and try to repair those broken DNA as cells to actually repair them and not just put a Band-Aid on them with the actual food that we were meant to eat. So you made a great point it all.

 

[00:22:41] It all began and continues to this day because I don't want to have to rely on, you know, a medicine cabinet when when I'm much older.

 

[00:22:51] You right? Yeah, absolutely. It's it's a great fear of mine to discover how many of my colleagues were on, you know, Daily Pharmaceuticals at the age of 40 was daunting for me.

 

[00:23:02] I am not sure I could keep up with the time getting up on the same time every day.

 

[00:23:08] I'm wondering, unpacking your Web site was interesting for me. I want to know about some of the impetus that when you went to launch it because it's different then. You know, I can't get enough of Vegan food Web sites anyway. I'm a kind of suer of sorts. But yours has a very unique and different tone to it. And I'm thinking that had something to do with some of the reason, the impetus behind the inspiration. Can you kind of speak to what inspired you to launch it?

 

[00:23:35] Sure. Well, it's been it's been a long time in the making. And I was actually fortunate enough to have a great web designer that helped me push it over the edge there and get it launched, because I'll tell you, if it was up to me, I would I would have never pulled the trigger because it was never good enough. But thank you. Thank you. Because it's gone through a few different transformations. I initially, as mentioned when I started looking at a new career in food, was going to look at the consulting and the coaching and the the blogging and being able to get my voice out there and my message heard and try to just bring more awareness to veganism and the really real ness of it.

 

[00:24:25] And so it started off as more of like, hey, I'm gonna sit here and I'm going to blog about food and I'm going to coach people.

 

[00:24:33] And then again, once I got submerged into the food, I was getting asked a lot of questions about my recipes. And I would post a picture. And, you know, obviously people want to know what's in it. And. And so I just said, you know, I got to start documenting it. And so I do have a good amount of recipes out there.

 

[00:24:56] I'd love to have more recipes out there. I focus on my blog. I was also doing some big in travel with my husband a little bit, whereas when I say Vegan travel, we would pick a destination that had a big Vegan footprint so I could go taste all the food. I mean, I'm a foodie. That's we were driven by food at some point. So there's some on there about my art Vegan travel that's kind of been nipped in the bud right now.

 

[00:25:24] But then up until just recent. So I was really focused on the informing, you know, let's inform people. Let's share my experience. Let's share the products that work for me. Share the food tips that work for me. And then once I started seeing that my recipes were making a difference and that I was going to pursue the actual culinary piece of it. That's when I have been transforming. And it's still going through a transformation if you go out there into the personal chef services. So I wanted to make. I wanted to keep Vegan it real the brand altogether because I love my brand and I wanted to also incorporate that services piece into the Web site where my locals could go out and take advantage of the services that I do offer from a personal chef's perspective. So it's gone through quite a few transformations, and I'm pretty certain that when my web designer receives an email from me, she shakes her head and, you know, it's it against the wall or something. But yeah, she I'm to the point where I can go in and just not break it.

 

[00:26:35] But it's definitely going through transformations and I do get a lot of feedback on it. I'm not big into advertising, you know, right now.

 

[00:26:45] I like I like people to just go get the information and keep it raw and real and transparent. I'm not necessarily out at my site to make money. I just want people to really profit off the information that I bring.

 

[00:26:59] And that's what it seems like. It really feels like it's even curated the recipes that you have.

 

[00:27:04] Yeah, photos are beautiful and the stuff that you're making. And I fancy myself, you know, in a fairly tidy, Vegan, self-taught chef. And they're beautiful. You know, I was looking at some of the reinventions, even the cheesy, like sausage and tartar torte, Vegan casserole and just different things like that. You know, I really it was inspirational.

 

[00:27:28] The Tater Tots casserole.

 

[00:27:29] Yay, not tartar casserole. I have children. These are the types of things that I'm thinking. I could make that a little bit more fun, particularly when they have friends over that. You're trying to kind of woo into this whole like, no, we're not a weird household. This is this is a great way of eating. I'm curious, you have a collaboration. You kind of tapped touched on it. It's this seems like the future of you know, it's the fact that you're constantly evolving the site and things like that that's, I think, evolve or die. Right. And the collaboration aspect of it is really the area that I feel a lot of chefs in general, Vegan chefs, you know, they go and they might eat at someone's establishment or get some information or get on someone's Instagram feed. But you never hear about this collaborative moment, like, let's work together, let's apply my lens to yours. Where do you see that heading in your future?

 

[00:28:20] Well, I'm fortunate because I have a ton of an area that's very new to the Vegan world where I live in the Tampa Bay area. I would say it's fairly new compared to, say, like Portland or, you know, something that has a much bigger Vegan footprint. So Vegan Vegan restaurants are popping up all over. And which means that the Vegan footprint, the plant base, cost conscious eater footprint is growing every day. So I recently plugged into, you know, all the restaurants because we we like to convert more vegans. We're never going to.

 

[00:28:59] For everybody, so we I think and this is just this is I think a lot of the business owners around here would say the same thing. We promote each other's business. We don't compete for their business, the business, the client business. So I may go to my local Vegan Deli and, you know, take a picture and promote, promote, promote on my pages. And they're certainly gonna scratch my back, too. They're gonna promote my food, even though, you know, I'm cooking for other people. And it might feel like I'm taking away from their business. They know I'm not going to make a dent necessarily, you know, because I'm doing my own thing. I'm not trying to do their thing. So I think that there's a big collaboration just in general in the Vegan community where I live.

 

[00:29:47] And then, you know, I have been fortunate to be approached, to be part of some of, you know, opening of Vegan restaurants and whatnot, to be able to even have the opportunity to, you know, lay the groundwork for some of the places around here, even as just a subject matter expert, whatever the case may be, whatever the role may be, has been really great. And there are a lot of Vegan small business owners outside the restaurant that are product owners around here as well that I'm hoping, you know, we've already made connections, but I'm hoping that we can make much deeper connections. Right now. Social media is everywhere. It's everything. Live. Live collaboration's kind of hard right now because of Hovig, you know, so you just think outside the box. And I just think that as far as in just a step back to apologize. But with branding as well, we have a lot. We were having the veg fests around here. We have several per year. I don't know how that's gonna go, but just the brand collaboration in the community seems very cohesive and noncompetitive. And I maybe that's naive of me to think, but it just. And in the future, I'm sure it will become more competitive. But I think the collaboration's I like to take part in are those who bring transparency to their company, their brand, their their food, their product. And just making sure that their their future forward thinking model is, you know, all about sustainability and still aligns with my fundamental beliefs. Yeah, absolutely.

 

[00:31:44] And I think so, too. And kind of to that end, I want to move into one of our rapid fire questions is kind of in that arena.

 

[00:31:50] And we have a lot of people right in asking where do you, as you know, in your food and culinary expertize, do you have a hit on? Do you have a feel for where Vegan food or plant based food in the industry is headed? If you could toss a prediction out for the next five years, what do you see growing in track or any trends?

 

[00:32:10] Well, the financial predictions are in the billions. And I, I personally every say here's a great indicator that when you when you go to your store, go to the Vegan section and I'm talking in your produce section and I'm talking over the course of, say, three months, six months. Anybody can do this. Look at the brand expansion in those categories. That's that's a great way to see how that trend is going. The trend is going up. I talked to everybody in it. Let me put it this way. The people that I talked to in the industry, I've yet to meet somebody who says, gosh, I wish I would have picked printing or I wish I would have gone in to accounting. I mean.

 

[00:33:04] Pretty much it's not only is it going to be in, it is consistently a profitable business. I saw my business launch immediately at the beginning of this year and covered hit and I was going through my launch during Koven and I saw great demand. So I just foresee. The Vegan movement is no longer going to be a movement. It's going to become a lifestyle for more people than not, especially when we're going through times like like now with Cobh. It it's a it's a great example. And, you know, again, I'm not a medical professional, but sadly, through a lot of these cases that that I've been reading and researching and the underlying conditions, so many are preventable. And so that saddens me. I mean, I get so sad because I know that if folks would just do their own research and be open minded and, you know, bite the bullet and make hard lifestyle changes, you know, it might take three years like me, but you will you will feel the benefits of it. But yeah. So I think I when when Burger King is offering impossible burgers and KFC is offering getting ready to be on offer beyond meat nuggets. I think the trend is definitely going in the right direction.

 

[00:34:27] Yeah, absolutely. And that's funny you say that it leads address into the direct next question with Rapid Fire, which is what do you think about the main offenders in the meat industry and the propagators of kind of everything that's been wrong with, you know, not just the animal rights issues, but also the environmental impact that these places like Burger King and KFC and McDonalds, if it ever joins, which it doesn't really need to, because they have like 40 percent soy products and half of their meat products anyway, they've partly joined. But what do you think about the different kind of soy you think? What do you think about? Do you do you welcome the change? Because any change towards, you know, this sustainable, healthy vegan lifestyle is good? Or do you think that it's tragic that they're kind of benefiting yet once again? Or was it just destined to be do you have, like, a takeaway on that?

 

[00:35:25] I do it's a hard question because, you know, I think the easy answer for vegans or is, you know. Well, if we can Kimber anybody, it's it's a step in the right direction. And I don't necessarily have that belief because I'm not into GMO, like I'm not into genetically modified ingredients, which is why I tried to personally stem my my processed foods. And I'm definitely one of those folks who's who tries to live more on the organic side of of the lifestyle. If, if and when possible. So, you know, holistically, I don't like, you know, the large scale models because it is propagating the same systems more or less, you know. So sometimes it can be within the system, the processes that need to be fixed. For instance, here's an example is we mentioned C.M.A soy. So, you know, subsidizing for soy. Our governments subsidize for, you know, GMO tons of, you know, soy. So why are we supplementing those folks when we could. Across the board, change diets by supplementing and subsidizing organic farmers? You know, why are we right. Supplement. It's almost like we're we're focused on the wrong things. And of course, this is just me looking in. But I think that. It's it is they are profiting off of Vegan for sure. And I mean, that's that's a great case in point, because, you know what? If it goes back to your last question, if the trend wasn't growing, they wouldn't want to have a footprint in the market. So I think that we definitely need laws change within the system itself. And this this goes I mean, I could talk all day about our food system that goes into the school systems and our hospitals and, oh, my gosh, don't get me started. So, yeah, I am definitely I keep a very conscious mind, especially with the brands I work with and for about that exact thing. So no where I'm glad burgling has the impossible burger for people. I don't eat it. Right. James, your question.

 

[00:37:56] Yeah, I think it kind of does.

 

[00:37:57] And I it's it's quite similar to my own narrative, which is, you know, I interviewed Ingrid Newkirk, founder of PETA, not too long ago. And I believe while I didn't ask her that exact question, she would say, you know, when support like any anything to get away from the abuse and suffering of animals and and to promote a healthier future. But that being said, I don't think she's running out to try one anytime soon. Right. You, myself as well. My final question for today is get a lot of people who want to know your personal take away. So your elevator pitch, your top three. You know, if you were sitting down with someone who was open, not angry, which there is a huge difference, but I heard you were Vegan and you were writing up to the 20th floor in an elevator and said, what are like the top three reasons as to why do you have kind of things that you find yourself prattling off as to kind of give people as this gateway moment?

 

[00:38:53] Yeah, only if they ask. And I say that because I have already learned that you can't sell things to people who aren't listening or who aren't open to that. So once they ask and I don't have elevator speech and I probably should because I just ride alone all the time. But what I do is I will just tell them my personal story and I tell them about basically I'll just, you know, plants. There's no food out there today that you cannot basically enjoy that wasn't made from plants. And I say that because I've tried it. So, for instance, if I wanted to become vegan 20 years ago, it's not the Vegan as veganism it is today. So I would say that before you poo poo the whole idea, let me cook you a meal and then we can talk about whether it was vegan and whether it was cruelty free and whether it save the planet or not.

 

[00:40:00] Nice. That's a good pitch. You don't need an elevator pitch. That's it. I don't know.

 

[00:40:05] I don't. I can't. Do I? You know, you're supposed to have that. That three 30 second pitch. I'm a rambler.

 

[00:40:14] No, you don't need one. You're fine. And you're willing to have someone to dinner, you know, and to put in the legwork so you don't need an elevator pitch just right. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for speaking with me today. I appreciate your time. I know you're busy and I really appreciate your candor and all of your information.

 

[00:40:30] Well, this was a great collaboration. This is where it's at. So I appreciate. I appreciate your time as well. This is great. Thank you so much.

 

[00:40:39] You bet. For everyone listening, we've been speaking with Jennifer Markell. She's a chef, blogger, founder, owner and operator of Vegan at Real Personal Shefford Services. You can find out more on her Web site. W w w dot Vegan at real dot com. Thank you for giving us your time today.

 

[00:40:56] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and well and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

 

Talking with Janani Kumar; Plant Based Recipe Developer & Blogger

Today I am talking with Janani Kumar. Janani is a plant-based recipe developer and lifestyle coach at The Vegetarian Carnivore. Her mission is to inspire people to transition to a lifestyle that is compassionate towards all animals, the environment, and their own health. She emphasizes creating comfort food recipes, many of which are vegan recreations of traditionally non-vegan comfort foods. Janani enjoys nerding out over nutrition facts and binge watching puppy videos in her spare time.

 

Key points addressed were  

• Janani’s efforts of showing people how to veganize their favorite non- vegan meals and comfort foods to show everyone how they can lessen their carbon footprint and contribute to a healthier lifestyle whether or not they are vegan themselves

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with plant based recipe developer and blogger Janani Kumar Key Points Addressed where Janani efforts of showing people how to Vegan ize their favorite non Vegan meals and comfort foods in order to show everyone how they can lessen their carbon footprint and contribute to a healthier lifestyle, whether or not they are Vegan themselves. Stay tuned for my wonderful chat with Janani Kumar.

 

[00:00:31] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Acom, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:29] Come back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am so excited to be sitting down with Janani Kumar. She is a plant based recipe developer and blogger. You can find out more on both of her Web sites. My veggie hacks, dot com, as well as my plant mood dot com. Welcome, Jenny.

 

[00:01:47] Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

 

[00:01:50] Absolutely. And for those of you listening, I will proffer a quick roadmap of the inquiry for today's podcast, and then I will read a bio on Janani before we get started. So everyone has a good basis of who we are talking to today. The roadmap will begin with looking at Janani's education, professional and experience, as well as her personal story with Vegan Vegan life. All of those things will ask her then to unpack her blog. My veggie hacks ask her to look at terms as a Vegan that we all use, but I think are individually defined differently. And we'll also look at my plant dot com and what the work that she's doing there. And then we'll look at some of the particulars about recipe curation, how she decides what goes onto each of those sites. And we'll unpack the course that she offers on my plant, me dot com and other things like that. And then we'll get into we'll wrap everything up with rapid fire questions. These are based on questions that you, our audience has written in asking that we ask some of the experts in the field and the guests that we are bringing on regarding Vegan life and your inquiries within that, as promised, a quick bio on Janani before I start peppering her with questions. Janani is a plant based recipe developer and lifestyle coach at the vegetarian Carnivore. Her mission is to inspire people to transition to a lifestyle that is a compassionate towards all animals, the environment and their own health. She emphasizes creating comfort food recipes, many of which are Vegan recreations of traditionally nonbanking comfort foods. Genitally enjoys nursing out over nutrition facts and binge watching puppy videos in her spare time. You and me both generally.

 

[00:03:35] It's nothing short of mandatory for my wellness and health. That's hysterical.

 

[00:03:41] So before we kind of unpack your your two different sites and the endeavors and the work that you do within that, I'm hoping you can draw out a quick educational and professional background and experience it as well as your personal story as it kind of interrelates. I know that you draw this out really well on my veggie hack's dot com. You've got a great bio. Can you kind of enumerate on it for everyone listening today?

 

[00:04:04] Yes. So I was actually praised vegetarian from birth. I was born into a vegetarian household. Traditional, indeed, a vegetarian. And I really never questioned it. It was kind of just a given that I would say no to the hot dogs at school or the burgers at recess. And I never really questioned it. And and it really wasn't until I got to college and I was studying. I studied engineering. I have an engineering background. And as I was doing research into engineering and now understanding, well, why does this happen? Well, why does that happen? And I was really getting stuck down into, like, really, really the basics. I started to apply that in to my into my personal life, into my food choices. And I really started to become more interested in finding out where my food came from and really the supply chain, if you will. For it to, you know, get into the grocery store and play. And that was really where I learned that the diet in this country was really not all as compassionate as I could be because I learned about the dairy industry and I learned about the egg industry. And that was something that was incredibly difficult for me to stomach because I was a cheese addict, like I would be eating cheese every single day. And I, I really I didn't know the impact of that of the dairy industry. And so the college was really the dividing point for me, because college was where I had a lot of friends, you know, go from being a vegetarian to seeing, oh, well, I'm a I'm away from family, so I'm going to start not being vegetarian. Or I saw people going the other way saying, OK, well, this is my chance to actually make a change to my life that I might have not been able to make when I was living with my parents. And so for me, I went the other way and I said, I am going to start, you know, eating more plant based food and I'm going to start really understanding, you know, my impact and, you know, understand the impact that my choices are making on the world and the welfare of animals and my own health. And actually, when I started cutting out dairy and eggs, honestly, I started feeling so much better. I like my bloat, went away and I started having so much more energy. And and that was something that I was not expecting because something that the media keeps pushing on us is that, you know, you need eggs, you need dairy for it to be a strong person and to have strong bones and and all this stuff. So I was I was getting all these like I was getting all these results that were so contradictory to. What we are. We have been taught. And and so that just made me go deeper down. That's when I started vegetarian Carnivore. It started out as a vegetarian blog. And and since then, I have had a slow transition to to veganism where I've been cutting out dairy, cutting out dairy, cutting out dairy. Until one day I was, you know, I'd need any dairy at all. And so that that was probably the biggest. The biggest thing that I've done in my life is to understand that this transition is. It's not what you see on social media that you have to do it all in one day or that you have to do it. You know, in a very certain way. And you can take it at your own step. And that and that's really what I. And that's really what I did. I'm very glad that I did it. And so because of my engineering background, everything that I read and I believe and that I that I teach and that I share with my audience has to be rooted in in data. I do not believe in supporting. I do not believe in presenting any kind of claim without winning like a random eye, some piece of scientific peer reviewed journal that kind of backs it up because there is so much garbage on the Internet and it's so easy to become a statistic like that. So, yeah, that's a little bit about my thought process and how I think about it and how I think about my journey into where I am today.

 

[00:08:39] It's interesting because when I hit, you know, my veggie hack Starcom, I think that there is sometimes a disconnect between generations and there at least when I started out, you know, veganism, it felt like you needed to be a chef. The advent of the industry itself in the Vegan culture and plant based foods in general, but also Vegan foods and things like that are starting to really take over by storm over the past five years. But also the voice of it, you know, it was this very esoteric industry. And if you didn't come from a culinary place and you didn't know it like Gaga was, you were just up a creek. And now, especially with what your blog and things like that really exemplify for me is it's this voice of the young, you know, of the young Vegan, your mac and cheese recipes. You incorporate, you know, store bought cheeses, you know, in it. It's not making your own from scratch. And I think that that kind of brings in this younger, maybe college based individual who is, you know, entertaining the vegan lifestyle. And does it want to be immediately taught that, you know, you can make a cheese out of coconut oil, but rather just that there's one out there that you can make great vak, mac and cheese substitute or, you know, all of those things that we all kind of care about in addition to going to restaurants that serve those things, you know, Vegan nature as well. So I think you do a really well at kind of exemplifying this younger voice and this next generation of vegans coming up. And I love that. I'm wondering before we get into unpacking each my veggie hacks as well as my plant, Mediacom, if you can kind of suss out a couple of terms for us. I'd like to know how you define Vegan as well as plant based. And what if they are different or similar, how they connect to one another?

 

[00:10:26] Sure. And that's a great question. So I think the the general consensus among the the community, the general community is something that I don't agree with. They kind of lump Vegan and plant based as the same thing. And and I don't necessarily agree with that because for me, veganism is more of a lifestyle where it doesn't just extend to your food choices. It extends to cruelty free health care, care or makeup or, you know, choosing ethically sourced clothing. And and so to me, that's what veganism is. But but plant based is where you focus more on your food choices and where you focus on more whole foods in in a plant based diet. So that's not exclusively only only plants, but for the majority part, it is. And and so I would definitely put myself in the category as both Vegan and plant based, because there is such a term as a as a junk food vegan. And and as much as I love you and junk food, I, I love it. Those Magnum Vegan ice cream bars are you know, they're my kryptonite. But I, I do really emphasize that the importance of eating, you know, Whole Foods plant based for optimal diet because, you know, you you can't just sit around and eat, I don't know, chips all day, even though they're Vegan and expect to achieve good health.

 

[00:12:00] Yeah, absolutely. All right. And then how do you define Whole Foods? That's another term that you dropped. What what do you mean when you say that?

 

[00:12:11] When I say Whole Foods, I mean fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, grains. I eat a lot of fero, Bulger, brown rice, Qin Y. And I think those are such nutrition powerhouses that we don't necessarily see. Really, the only grain that I think in Western culture we have heard of is rice, brown, rice and now wa. But the idea of like amaranth and buckwheat and millet is still making its way to making its way up.

 

[00:12:51] Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. OK. Let's get into some of your sights.

 

[00:12:55] I first want to start with my veggie hack's dot com. When when was it launched and what is the main goal of that site?

 

[00:13:05] So I launched my veggie tax Starcom when I was a senior in college, so that was in 2000 and a teen 2018 and I it was with the sole purpose of showing people that you could have a really delicious and nutritious meatless meals. The name the vegetarian Carnivore. You know, it's kind of a it's kind of a shocking Jux juxtaposition that that really came from like a defiance. I was just I had just had it with people telling me that I couldn't eat good food, that I was missing out somehow and I just wasn't having it. I didn't want to hear that. And so when they said, I can't have chicken, I can't have Bolognese, I can't have all this stuff. I just decided that there had to be a way to. To do it without hurting the animal, to do it without hurting our bodies and to do it without, you know, emitting tons of methane into the atmosphere. So I realized that there had to be a way so that I really started the vegetarian carnivore with that intention.

 

[00:14:24] And you still have the Instagram account. You still have on Instagram. It's the vegetarian carnivore. Yes.

 

[00:14:31] OK. For everyone listening, there's that kind of connection there. There's a few different labels were throwing around. I want to read from your Web site something that kind of reached my team.

 

[00:14:41] And I said one of my goals here is to create a platform for people to read and experiment with my recipes in a way that gives them the opportunity to have more than one measly option on a restaurant menu. I want to encourage people to incorporate more vegetarian meals into their diet to give it a chance. I want us to leave a smaller carbon footprint on this planet and move toward a more sustainable future. And I think it's interesting because, you know, a lot of vegans and rightfully so to their own degree, just you know, they do not communicate with non vegan environments. They want to push people into veganism, whole vegans. But you have this kind of Meatless Monday approach in this in this rhetoric right here of years where you're like, just give it a shot, start incorporating some of these things into your diet. And because you have a reach into the younger audience, I think it is interesting saying, you know, look at some of these meatless alternatives like what you were saying before. Have a look. It doesn't always have to be this. And I do think a lot of people resonate. People with any dietary restrictions that, you know, there might be something on the menu for you. But it's one. And you'd better like whatever it is they made Vegan because there's not. Oh, yeah. You know, and I like your site for that reason. My veggie hack's does do this example of saying it's like a plethora of things like you were just saying it's everything from comfort food to, you know, these these other aspects. People think of Vegan if they're not the intent to think of salad or pasta, and that's it. And I think you do a really good job of kind of showing people that I want to switch now to my plant mooed dot com. What do you do with that? And can you tell us a little bit about the course?

 

[00:16:19] Yes. So my plant moved dot com is a Web site, you know, predominantly for hosting my course, which I launched actually this last week. My course is a plant based transition course. It is where I teach about. Well, I guess I'll tell you where it came from. First, it was born out of this. This gap in the industry that I saw about, you know, are you Vegan or are you not? Are you. It's like, are you destroyed? Are you there? And I realized that that is the single most daunting thing for someone who is who is looking for a change. But it's like you can't ask someone to, you know, just uproot their everything that they have grown up with all at once. And that is a very scary thing. You know, I'll speak for myself from experience. And so, you know, I grew up in a traditional Indian household. So even though I didn't eat meat, we ate a lot of dairy. So that goes for milk and butter and key and and cheese and and just all of our stuff is just absolutely slathered with butter and milk and and yogurt. How could I forget that? That was literally my kryptonite. Yogurt. Yogurt. Rice was like a staple South Indian comfort food. It's like our chicken soup for the soul. And and so for me, when I decided to go vegan, I realized that I couldn't I couldn't say, OK, today I eat yogurt tomorrow. I don't. I realized I had to create a sustainable transition, but there was no there was no support community for that. There was no the you know, people on the Internet, they are so polarized. You're either, you know, a vegan who is totally, like going to die of protein deficiency or you are a hardcore carnivore that. That, you know, doesn't believe in eating plants. You know, it's so there was no nice middle ground. And I really wanted to help people understand that there is a middle ground and that every every. Choice that you make should be a deliberate choice. And it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. I think that is what really resonates with my own audience, is that it's not an all or nothing thing. You don't have to do that. And so I decided to create this course as a as an introduction to plant based nutrition and as a way to help people tramp's transition into eating more plants, whether meet them to achieve whatever goals that they want to achieve, whether they want to become Vegan, or whether they just want to, you know, improve their life and lessen their impact on this world by eating more plants. So that is what this course is intended to do. It's intended on focusing on on basics of plant based nutrition, as well as my tips for eating outside. So you don't just have that one lame option on the menu as well as like some mindset shifts.

 

[00:19:33] A lot of people say, well, I tried going vegan and I, I just I fell off the bandwagon and now I'm just eating like 10 steaks a day, you know? And it's kind of like, you know, it's it's it's not a one or the other thing. You can fall off the bandwagon. It happens. We we're all just human. Right. But what's more important is to recognize that it's OK and to get on track again.

 

[00:19:57] Yeah, absolutely, I agree. How long is each course? How is it set up? What are the particulars? How would someone get on to learn more about it?

 

[00:20:06] Yeah, so there's one course currently. I just I just launched it and it is it's an hour and a half long and you can sign up through my website. My plant, MEDCOM. And there are some really cool bonus resources that I've included as well. I've included my personal grocery shopping list so that I don't forget anything at the grocery store. It really sucks to go to the grocery store with no less. They come back and realize that I left out the maple sirup or oh, I left out like the literally the main ingredient and you don't have something left. So I've included that. And I've also included my favorite and Vegan junk food, treat, cheat. And I don't think it's really important to do that because a lot of people think of veganism as restrictive and Vegan still eat burgers. You can still eat ice cream. Vegan still eat. You know, we still eat a lot of this stuff. And I think that that a treat day shouldn't compromise on on ethics. It shouldn't compromise on taste.

 

[00:21:13] And so that's and that's the reason that I've included a vegan cheat sheet, is that the same thing is your plant based alternative checklist or is that completely different?

 

[00:21:23] My plant based alternative checklist. Is oh, gosh, I can't remember how I how I named them right now. Windrush looks like it would be like a dairy alternative.

 

[00:21:34] Like you mentioned, a lot of cooking with, like, dih and different kinds of cheeses that melt. I have these great different flavors and things and I. Right. It would be an introduction into that. And along that same line, I kind of wonder, do you feel like there will be a maturation with your as you start to garner more of a community and an audience than you already have?

 

[00:21:55] Do you think that you'll start getting into, you know, vegans who want more than just this store bought substitute? You know, there's a there's a huge line of vegans, but a lot of those cheeses, as magnificent as they taste and don't get me started on like this milk howdah and stuff like that that they've really nailed, but that don't want to deal with a lot of the ingredients that are in. There are some of the vegetable oils that people don't sign off on. You know, there's a huge body of work I won't get into it about, you know, the difference between canola versus olive oil for one's body. And I'm wondering if you will ever think that you'll take on the. Or endeavored to kind of unpack from a culinary standpoint how to make your own cheese or how to get this or get that, or do you think you'll kind of just stay with this shopping substitution, that type of it, as a Slaínte with it?

 

[00:22:44] So that's a great question. And so the primary reason that I use store bought cheeses in my recipes is to show people that it's not all that different from what they're already doing. You know? So if you go to the grocery store and you buy dairy cheddar, there is a there is a way that you can go to the store and buy plant based cheddar. So it's that comes out of a out of a desire on my part to demonstrate to people that it doesn't have to be this this complicated, long, winding method to getting your your mac and cheese. You can get your mac and cheese. And that's not a problem. But I have experimented to a really nice extent, too, with Viðga and cashew cheeses and my my Vegan spinach artichoke dip, which is on my website, actually does use cashew cheese that I made from scratch at home. And and I think that. I think that in veganism should be accessible to people who there are some vegans that I know who. Who who've never set foot in the kitchen, you know, they don't like cooking. They don't care about cooking and minimum work is the best for them. But for someone like me who you know, I thrive in the kitchen. I love being in the kitchen. And I just, you know, with the Gaga and the, you know, the the cashews and all that, all that good stuff. And so, yes, there is definitely a lot of scope for developing out more of the artisanal cheeses, if you will, and the artisanal wool substitutes.

 

[00:24:40] And to that end, how do you cure it? Which recipes you go up with? Is it kind of self led and self designed or do you take a note from your Facebook groups or people who are looking for more translations? How do you decide which recipes you're going to throw up and which recipes?

 

[00:24:55] You're not both, actually. So I always love getting feedback from from my from my followers, my viewers.

 

[00:25:05] And and to that extent, I love creating comfort food and like we've mentioned before, but when I get when I get the recipe requests for can you recreate this as a comfort food for me, that that really that really hits a really special place for me. And then I will pretty much go out of my way to to to make it, because I believe that everyone should be. It's the it kind of goes back to the to the curd rice example, the yogurt rice that I was talking about earlier. For me, that was literally the the biggest achievement of my life when I was able to make that Vegan. And and that was really the the push off point for me to say I am. I'm able to fully not eat any animal products now. Yeah. So, yes, to vote for that. And to that end. So I do like getting examples from from people. And also, I'm sorry that there might be a little lag in the connection.

 

[00:26:15] Yeah, no, it's great. I was I was just pointing out that you kind of enumerate you fully elaborate in your on your blog about that yogurt, you know, revolution and kind of the shout out to anyone, you know, of Southeast's like the Indian descent of like, you know, it's like the yogurt's here, which is true. Every culture has their, like, break of like, you know, I think the impossible burger in the States, you know, if Americans are attached to burgers, which my America isn't, but let's just say it is, you know, the impossible burger and things that we're really creating this like you cannot differentiate the moments and you really experience still that same culture. It really broke that barrier for people, which it sounds like your yogurt did for you. So I love and wondering how we're into our rapid fire questions moment now because we're kind of peeling out of time here. Janani And I'm going to ask you just a quick few questions, and this is for everyone who's listening. This is a segment that we kind of added in because we have so many people writing in and we love our audience and we want to honor you and your inquiry's with everything. So those of you that wrote in asked us to kind of posture questions to plant based recipe developers and bloggers. Here we go. Where do you see the vegan food scene in the USA headed in the next three years or California in particular?

 

[00:27:38] I am actually very, very positive about the. You can see an expansion, I follow a lot of I follow a lot of I follow veg news and I follow live kindly and I follow a lot of these Vegan news outlets on social media. It seems like every other day they're coming out with a new pop up or a new advent or a new or a new invention. And also, I think that if if Corona virus has done nothing else, it has really alerted people to the to the dangers and to not only the dangers of eating animal products, but also to the benefits of shifting to plant based. And because of this, Vegan sales have skyrocketed across the world. And and I feel very, very positive about it.

 

[00:28:25] Nice. Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. What are the top three things you wish people just starting off cooking Vegan recipes would know?

 

[00:28:35] OK. Right. I think the most important thing to do is to incorporate as much color as you can into your diet. Right. So if you go to the farmer's market, you go to the grocery store, try to find something in every color, red bell, pepper, beetroot, broccoli, kale, something and every something and every color. And then just try to saute it together, try to try to experiment with it. And I mean, really, what's the worst that could happen? It it turns out botched. But but really, that's that's the most important thing. I think my and my thing. The second most important thing would be to. Don't be so hard on yourself. Right. So don't be so hard on yourself. Even if you're trying if you're cutting out meat from one recipe but really, really want to use butter. Fine. Go ahead and use the butter. It's like I said, it's not an all or nothing thing. It is about taking the small steps. And the third most important thing would be find some inspiration. Definitely. Think back on the recipes that you like. Think back on what you what made you feel happy and warm and fuzzy on the inside when you were little and. An experiment. I mean, there's there's mushrooms for me. You can make chicken tenders out of oyster mushrooms, you can use soy crumbles as a beef substitute. You can use Sainte-Anne as a chicken substitute. And oh, and while some of these are getting into the. Into a little bit more advanced, I would say style definitely. Look, to get enough calories, getting enough calories is so important. And people who are trying to restrict themselves will always feel hungry on a vegan diet or even an omnivorous diet. So get enough calories.

 

[00:30:29] Nice. Yeah. All right. And the final one is, what are your go tos forgetting Vegan inspiration and knowledge for cooking.

 

[00:30:39] Vegan inspiration and knowledge for cooking. Google, Google, Google, Google. Yeah. So I'll tell you something I'm going through right now. Actually, I'm not much of a baker. I'm I'm just just venturing out into baking. And so while I'm pretty well versed in the cooking world, the baking world is kind of like crazy. So when I when I discovered applesauce as an egg substitute, that was kind of like a like an aha moment. Like, I can make cookies now, you know, so it it's not always what you think. And and so some of the my other go to inspirations are just looking at cooking videos. It doesn't even have to be Vegan cooking videos. I look at a lot of cooking videos and then I think of stuff that I can substitute instead of the meat. So maybe beans instead of beef or or lentils or or whole grains or something. But it doesn't have to be even like a Vegan video system. So don't limit yourself by only looking at Vegan stuff. Look at everything and then see where you can substitute something out. Just put a different source of protein, put a different source of put nutritional yeast instead of parmesan.

 

[00:31:58] Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I'd love to make some nutritional yeast with hem parts.

 

[00:32:04] It's going to feel like palmy oceanic moment to it as well. And also going on off your tandem, the just a quick tent, like a side note, is cheap seeds and tablespoon of water. Ground seeds is a great substitute for an egg. Yes. Which I love. And I love applesauce. I love doing both of those because the applesauce cuts out half the sugar. Right.

 

[00:32:27] Getting healthy. Yes. Absolutely. Those things really do as the chief seeds add like the omega 3s too. And they're filling. They're filling like I put them into cookies actually last week. And I had one cookie and I was like, well, I don't feel like having a second cookie. So that kind of cut down that craving.

 

[00:32:46] Yeah. I won't make any baked goods without throwing in flax. And she said I won't just because it's such an easy way to deliver your omega 3s and they are so righteous for you and the studies being done on them, vegans and non vegans alike is just you know, it's it's they're tantamount to not having them in one's diet. And we are out of time. And and I want to say thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate like all of that. You're so expansive. You know, you have so many different areas you go into. And I really do appreciate you kind of like drawing out each point of what you're doing. Hopefully we can bring you back around after another year or so and find out where all of your endeavors with, you know, my plant mood and maybe other courses that you have moving forward have kind of ended up.

 

[00:33:33] I would love that. Yeah, it's been great to be here.

 

[00:33:36] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Janani Kumar. She's a plant based recipe developer and blogger. You can find out more on both her Web sites, my veggie hack's dot com, as well as my plant mooed dot com. And until we speak again next time, thank you so much for giving us your time.

 

[00:33:53] And remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and clean and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

 

Chatting with Yvonne O'Halloran; Dietitian

Today I am chatting with Yvonne O’ Halloran. Yvonne is an accredited practising dietitian who has a passion for plant-based nutrition. She completed her studies in Griffith University on the Gold Coast, Australia where she graduated with a bachelor’s degree in public health in 2010, followed by a master’s in nutrition & dietetics in 2012. 

 

Having gained experience as a private practice dietitian for her first years as a new graduate dietitian, she then started up an online business in 2014. In 2016 she went vegan for both health and ethical reasons and has since spent her time learning about plant-based nutrition by researching the literature, attending plant-based conferences and completing the plant-based nutrition course through e-Cornell university.

 

Yvonne co-founded Living Vegan with her husband that launched early 2019, which is a news and education platform aimed to help people navigate a healthy vegan lifestyle. She is a content writer for various plant-based companies and writes columns on a monthly basis for Vegan Life UK magazine. She is currently working on her first book that will be a sort of vegan starter kit featuring nutrition and psychology-based information which she hopes to complete by early 2021.  

 

Yvonne is a mother to 3 healthy, thriving vegan children and currently lives on the Gold Coast, Australia, but she grew up in Ireland. Check out her website www.livingvegan.com

 

Key points addressed were  

• Essential principle of Yvonne’s work with clients regarding acquiring a vegan diet
• We also discussed the core basis of both of Yvonne’s books tentatively publishing in Early 2021 and 2022 the first of which is what I surmised to be something of a vegan Bible covering information on every imaginable aspect of the vegan diet and health and the latter of which will address pre-prenatal and pre natal health with a vegan diet

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with dietician and upcoming author Yvonne O'Halloran. Key points addressed were essential principles of Ivana's work with clients regarding acquiring a vegan diet. We also discussed the core basis of both of Enns books tentative in publishing in early 2021 and 2022. The first of which I surmised to be something of a Vegan Bible covering information on every imaginable aspect of the Vegan diet and health, and the latter of which will address prenatal and pre prenatal health with a vegan diet. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Yvonne O'Halloran on a quick technical note. We suffered some audio disturbance, which presents as a subtle pounding noise in the background. But because the issue does abate through most of the interview, our team made the decision to go up with this version rather than delay and rerecord. We appreciate your understanding and know that the interview with Yvonne will be worth putting up with a little static.

 

[00:01:00] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen. Com where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia.

 

[00:01:59] And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Yvonne O'Halloran. She's a dietician and her website is w w w dot living Vegan dot com. Welcome, Yvonne. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of think you guys are doing on living Vegan as well as some of your other endeavors.

 

[00:02:17] I know you contribute to weather Vegan outlets, and I'm excited to unpack that with our audience today. For those of you that are on offer, a roadmap for today's podcast. As to other line of inquiry in which way we'll be headed. And then I'll also read a quick bio on Yvonne so that everybody has a very good purview of a little bit of her background. So the roadmap for today's podcasts will look at a Von's academic and professional life that brought her to launching Living Vegan with her partner, live living Vegan dot com. And we'll also look at her Vegan story as it's intertwined. Within that, we'll get into some of the logistics as to when it was launched, how it's curated, if they have sponsorship or funding, any affiliations that they're kind of attached to. We'll look at goals for the site and audience ship and who they're hoping to reach. And just look at unpacking some of those Vegan dialogs in between there. And then I'll turn to also asking her about some of her endeavors with them writing in contribution to different Vegan, things like that. And as I promised before, I start asking even a bunch of questions. A quick bio. Yvonne O'Halloran is an accredited practicing dietician who has a passion for plant based nutrition. She's completed her studies in Griffith University on the Gold Coast, US in Australia, where she graduated with Bachelors Degree in Public Health in 2010, followed by a Masters in Nutrition and Dietetics. In 2012. Having gained experience as a private practice dietician for her first years as a new graduate dietician, she then started up an online business in 2014. In 2016, she went Vegan for both health and ethical reasons and has since spent her time learning about a plant based nutrition by researching the literature, attending plant based conferences and completing the plant based nutrition course through Cornell University. Yvonne co-founded Living Vegan with her husband that launched early 2019, which is a news and education platform aimed to help people navigate a healthy Vegan lifestyle. She's a content writer for various plant based companies and writes columns on a monthly basis for Vegan Life UK magazine. She is currently working on her first book. That will be a sort of Vegan starter kit featuring nutrition and psychology based information, which she hopes to complete by early twenty twenty one. Yvonne is a mother to three healthy, thriving Vegan children and currently lives in the Gold Coast of Australia. But she grew up in Ireland. You can check out more, as I said on her website, w w w dot living Vegan dot com. So, Yvonne, before we start unpacking the site and all of your work within that, I also wanted to tell you I have a bunch of rapid fire questions at the end of this that we've reached out to people who subscribe to our podcast and emails and always ask them questions that they would like. Ask our guests. And as a dietitian, as a Vegan dietitian, we've got a slew of those for you. We'll do those at the very end of the podcast. But before we get to all of that, I'm hoping you can kind of we I just unpacked a great deal of your academic and professional life, but I'm hoping that you can kind of give your own personal narrative as to how you incorporated your academia into what you're doing now with living Vegan dot com.

 

[00:05:26] Yes. So as I said, I graduated in 2012 for the master's in Nutrition Dietetics. And Michael was always defined my name.

 

[00:05:35] I didn't know at the time that I was going to be plumpness nutrition. But I was waiting to see what what I would find. But in 2016, I started to look into the ethical side of what I was eating. And I didn't like what I saw. And it was quite confronting, actually. I think for anybody who looks is actually still fits. It's it's I call it like an awakening for me. It was shocking and that's horrifying. And obviously, when I when I look at the side of it, for me as a dietician, it was very important for me to look at the health side of it. Is this healthy? Is this is this good for me? Is this good for my clients? So I started going down a rabbit hole and I started to speak to campus doctors and research company sectors, other companies, dieticians all over the world. And yeah, I learned a lot. And because in university, you don't really talk much about the nutrition that we basically just touched on it in one class. I think they mentioned veganism and what it was that it was highly restrictive diets and that kind of thing. So I didn't think too much about it back at that time. But I always kind of questioned the dairy industry. I never read he was a huge fan of this and never seemed to sit right with me even when I had to recommend dairy to my clients. I didn't feel right about it, but it was what I was told is unique. So I thought, well, I mean, if this is what I was taught, this is what I'm supposed to do. So, yeah. So I started looking into the dairy industry and things like that, and it was shocking. And the evidence based research that's behind us about the dangers of dairy and how how it's so unhealthy for us. So it's highly inflammatory and it's got dioxins and hormones and estrogens and IGF one, which are all things that we shouldn't be having in their bodies. It's it's far you know, it's far different matter. Like, so. And I also noticed in in my work that a lot of people actually favored cow's milk over, sometimes over, even breastfeeding, which is amazing. So it's just I think it's been so indoctrinated into Intel us for so long that it's actually considered completely normal. Yeah. So I start to dip into it more. And I went off dairy initially for a long time, and I also went off meat meat with something I never really liked. Even as a kid I would break open Arden's. So it was a very meat heavy lifestyle as. As children, like we'd have bacon, encourager, meat and veggies and potatoes. I was everyday and I never I never was a fan of eating these. I didn't even understand back then it was an animal. It just wasn't for me. We as time went on and I started learning more about nutrition, I and I started to see where I was going to go. I am I start looking to Taipei's dieticians and what they were doing to. I realized that there was a big mischer and then something that I was really passionate romance, very excited about. You're doing more. More with that side of things.

 

[00:08:40] Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's it's I felt the trend coming more, at least for the United States on a lot of different level economically. A lot of different areas. Sustainability. The new generation Gen I, they're kind of being called right now with just almost this inherent knowledge of is it sustainable? Is it good for the earth? Yes, a bunch of different ways that people were coming at Vegan nutrition. But I definitely and then Kova just kind of at least in the States, it put the conversation and forefront. And then I'd like pinning up much to your line of work. People are really starting to ask themselves. I know so many adults that don't know that there's protein and vegetables, crazy amount of people and wonderful professors that don't know that there's protein and vegetables because it just hasn't been discussed and educated enough. You know, a lot of people on this podcast are doctors who are Vegan because MDA, United States, I'm one of the most hysterical things is that they don't take even one nutrition course or they're not required to to become. And I'm absolutely explained to me that, you know, doctors treat disease and ailments and internal workings. They were never meant to be these these people advising diet. It was not ascribed to their part of work. But for some reason, we all turned to them when we know when we need to prescribe things with diet. For me, I feel like you could not look at medicine without in unison of diet. You know, there's so many diseases that are abated or helped or cured or all of those things from allergies with changing diet that so many documentaries have come out about. So I really think that there's a great use to that. And I kind of wanted to start off by asking you.

 

[00:10:24] Have you ever worked in Congress with an M.D. or like a medical doctor and throughout any of this time period, have you ever had conversations with them and kind of unarrest how much they do or don't know about a healthy diet?

 

[00:10:42] Yeah, well, I have some friends who are doctors, and I've obviously worked in private practice, so I've been exposed to doctors for they really I mean, for the doctors I've spoken to, they really get Minimoog like education and nutrition.

 

[00:10:54] It's very, very, very broad, very minimal. I think it's like four hours in the whole seven years of study to get something like that. So, yeah, it did. Definitely don't understand, like maybe general nutrition a little bit, but it's nutrition for most doctors is completely crazy to them if they just didn't understand it or the.

 

[00:11:15] It's very restrictive and it's what they're just not educated in that area. And I think the doctors who are educating the area actually do really well. I mean, the likes of Dr. Michael Kofman, Dr. Grinton. You know, there's lots of doctors out there, especially in America. They do. They do really well because they've actually looked into the research and they know it's it's effective. You know, Doctor, as a student, he just did a lot of research on heart disease. And these are really well with his patients getting great results. I think the doctors who are more open minded to be with patients when they're looking to progress actressy.

 

[00:11:46] Yeah. And it had generally have been heart disease.

 

[00:11:50] I was going to say there's a kind of a gateway disease which has a horrible term that I just. But as a gateway disease to kind of open up the Vegan conversation. We've spoken with Dr. Joel Kahn over here who is, you know, one of America's premiere's ologists. And I'm a devout Vegan for 30 plus years. And he has such incredible I think that the success of reversing, you know, coronary issues, episodes and disease is one of the most powerful blood in the Vegan attributes, at least over here as well. So it's it's interesting to hear that there's a tandem over in Australia. I one out before we start unpacking living Vegan dot com, which is I love because it's the educational platform. I'm wondering if you can kind of describe I like it. You decide as you can kind of unpack for me. You've got Ireland and then you have Australia and the respective regions that you're from and that you've been to I personally great a longer history as well with Ireland. Dublin has some of the oldest Vegan restaurants of all of the European countries that I visit, which was shocking for me.

 

[00:13:01] And they introduced me to better cheeses than we had in the States for just the United States did not get the memo that Vegan cheese amounts and it was the Greek. It's just, you know, she's out of it. But that aside, that tirades. But I'm wondering if you can kind of describe the latter day, the current day like us or vibe around Vegan.

 

[00:13:31] Dietary consumption in Ireland and Australia right now. Are people open to it? Has it spiked over the past five years? What is your personal take on that?

 

[00:13:42] Well, I have to say, I actually went Vegan while I was in Ireland, which is a bit crazy.

 

[00:13:47] And we move back there for eight months, back in later, Towsend 16, and that's when they actually turned 18. It's definitely more accepted back there now. There definitely are more options like I know for a few more years. And there was actually Vegan options, which I was surprised about. I mean, it's quite ten years ago.

 

[00:14:04] I don't know. I don't know what it had anything to eat back there. So it's definitely open Kofman more mainstream for sure in Australia. It's incredible. Like you could go to. There's so many Vegan restaurants where I am here, the locals, so many options, compas options.

 

[00:14:20] So I feel Australia is definitely ahead. And, you know, comparing to Ireland border to both countries are doing really well. They're getting more becoming more open minded because I feel like the demand is there now. So the restaurants want to meet the demand for the. So there's not really any restaurants I went to in Arden's that didn't offer something Vegan. Now I have to say some places were pretty poor. What was offered water in Australia? It's really incredible. The Vegan auctions are here. Here. Amazing. Very easy to be Vegan in Australia, that's for sure.

 

[00:14:55] Yeah. And eat out. I mean, they're all Vegan restaurants. We were talking off the air before eating, but I was explaining to you that I had just returned as the pandemic kind of set in. On the global scale from Sydney, Australia. And I was actually viewing Vegan restaurant owners there. And just it's an amazing scene. And there's so many people doesn't terrify people. You go to a non Vegan restaurant. I love Vietnamese food and fur and things of that nature. And and any of those communities, you go in and say, you know, it's I needed to be made Vegan or whatever. It's a very popular term. And I would as they always I mean, they're the first for a lot of health trends. And, you know, I learned about a great deal about Crossfade when that hit from the Aussies, even though it was in. And all those things they really embrace and get into it. And I love and then the YouTube about it.

 

[00:15:43] They're prolific YouTube hits, which I have yet to pack.

 

[00:15:48] I'm living Vegan with you now. I read that you launched it with your husband in 2000 and nineteen. So it's still in some it's in C to its target as it's and it's there for education. Can you kind of unpack what inspired you? What's the ethos of you and your husband to launch it and what the site endeavors to do?

 

[00:16:12] For sure. So I am actually had a Web site prior to DEC called Page, which is gone now. That was before I went Vegan.

 

[00:16:19] So I always knew I wanted to kind of work predominantly online because we travel quite a lot as well. So online, it seems to me. Then obviously once I would Feig and I wanted to change my Web site to be happy. So me, myself, my husband were very passionate about the Vegan movement. So we wanted to do something that would, you know, help help people to get there, to have a healthier lifestyle and to understand the education side of it, like basically a platform that had everything because there are platforms out there that are more use based kind of.

 

[00:16:50] But I wanted to see how the educational component as well. So and that's how we came up with the BBC and we thought it was a bit of a dairy name because I think a lot of people shy away from the word Vegan like we kind of considered doing something like more campus, but then we decided, no, you know what this is? This is about veganism. Let's just let's just face this and and let's have our, you know, a good name that people under it, as soon as they see the name, they know exactly what it is.

 

[00:17:16] So that's that's how we coined the term living big and that's how we came up with it. And so initially when it was launched into Taza 19, I had just had my first daughter. So I was pretty busy. So it was more news based initially because I was busy with my daughter and my sleepless nights. But as time went on, I got more involved. So now I'm and I'm very involved in and I'm trying to do more educational stuff to try and help people to learn. You know, it's not that hard to be Vegan. I find the first four months of being Vegan can be quite challenging for people because they're just generally even if they're highly motivated, they just do not know what to eat because we've been educated to eat, you know, certain food for breakfast, lunch and dinner for, you know, 20, 30 years. It's very hard to change. So it takes a lot of guidance and motivation and have I think once people get over to treat formants, don't they tend to be OK? You know, most people. So that's how we do it. We design the packages and them aiming towards that. Now, I'm actually going to update the packages this year. I'm going to offer more dietician focus packages, you know, like consultations and guidance over a longer period, six to twelve months and things like that. So the packages are going to be updated soon. But it was basically just to. I wanted to be there to help people, I find a lot of women who are pregnant.

 

[00:18:44] It is specifically the go to the doctor to tell them their Vegan and the doctor scares the life and says, you know, you need to eat eggs and usually have meat for your baby. This and all these people are like, I don't know what to do. My doctor says, I need to eat this.

 

[00:18:59] So I just felt like there was a huge pressure. People just need some help. They need some guidance in this lifestyle.

 

[00:19:06] That's why I am going to write a book about which we can talk about it or read a book about Vegan pregnancy.

 

[00:19:12] I'm excited to Vegan pregnancy. Yeah, it's in the book and all the information. We need a ton more Vegan dietitians out there because men are one thing that people are terrified of is their nutrition and they need an expert opinion assuring them you, Isaac, your steps. I mean, I fancy myself a wildly educated woman. And when I became I turned to the worst like junk food Vegan that there was this prenup frozen, preserved, but didn't even live like that before. But it was just this Hypercom, like, I've got something ready made in the fridge. And it's it's I think it was just that lack of having the expert advice. OK, I want to go back to asking you about that, the packages a little bit more because it feels like so for me, as I was saying about my own education and things of that nature and needing dietitians, it's a tenuous line.

 

[00:20:15] You would have to dance because I feel like people are capable of getting P.H. and things, but not upfront, you know, and having this onslaught of information on diamonds and minerals, even if you have a great deal of that information, keeping it all straight in your index, when you're switching diets over, how do you navigate tenuous line between educating just enough for your clients to feel empowered but not too daunted with just too much information?

 

[00:20:42] Know, I definitely think less is more. I think if you go too deep. People just get scared off, like because nutrition is so complex for most people.

 

[00:20:54] Mostly people just want the basics. They just want to understand. You know, for example, how do I get my B twelve or, you know, what is vitamin D or you know, they just want basic stuff. They don't want you to dove too deep because for most people that's too much. So what I have to try to do is keep it very simple. I find, you know, as a dietician, you have to learn all the complex, deep stockman and then you have to really get back really simply to your comments. So that's basically what I do. So, you know, I do a lot of email consultations as well, which is actually very popular. People prefer people love to do e-mail concerns because they don't actually I don't know what is, but they don't actually speak to me. Exactly. They just email me to all the details and then they ask me all questions and I look to their meal plan or I look to what they eat and everything. And then I suggest what they should eat. And I send them a meal plan and then I give money, information I need. And a lot of it is just basic questions. Like the most common questions are where do I get my protein, which is a crazy person. You know, what is beach one? You know, am I going to get nutritional deficiencies or if I'm pregnant, you know, as my baby go to grow. Things like this, it's really, really basic stuff, you know, as a dietitian. But it's stuff of people need reassurance.

 

[00:22:07] Absolutely. And it's empowering someone and, you know, give them those informations and be in the United States. I'll say that culturally, I'm speaking just for my own country. And particularly among women or women identified individuals that I encounter, there's a great deal of defense even around somebody who feels very confident about their way of life. You know, when you start to top it, there's it's deeply interwoven. It's very, very personal and food obvious and do so much more than, say, it's attached to our heritage, to our ideas of love and reward and all sorts of crazy things psychologically for you. I mean, these are things that you must have to consider. You know, when you're kind of encountering your clients and best how to serve them and things like that, it makes sense.

 

[00:22:54] The email part of it, I'm like, oh, that sounds more not it sounds less judgmental, you know, to be able to write it out of you write it. I think there's a great deal of emotion that goes into food that you kind of have to unpack as well. When I got on your site and this is part is this actually plays into that concept as well. As you know, great big picture with Vegan dietitians and things like that. Like you have education, you know the aspect of that. Then you have implementations to your site, has recipes, news. And I'm wondering I love how I love the curation of the news that you have selected that you did for that site. How do you do that?

 

[00:23:34] What's your curation process for how you kind of select which news you want to represent? I'm living.

 

[00:23:40] It's hard because there's obviously so many stories every day could write 100 stories a day. So you really have to be specific, be specific and pick what you think is going to attract the audience and bring them in.

 

[00:23:52] I suppose I find ethical stuff really brings in the audience stuff about animal welfare or, you know, stuff about somebody who went Vegan on the health results they got from that. Things like that. I find that people really are drawn to. So I think what I do is I see I go on the Vegan news alerts, you know, to Goob and I research all of the Web sites to do news stories. And, you know, I constantly looking to the Internet, trying to find, you know, the most recent story of what's happened or, you know, I go to attract my audience is going to be a good read for them, is going to educate them vertical to learn anything from this.

 

[00:24:30] So things about, you know, like I said about animals, Udalls, something ethical, something that's, you know, you know, it's something that happens to animals and plants and animals, slaughterhouse or abuse or in the Persian farm, things like that. People are like, oh, you know, it really brings them in. And I find the visual stuff as well as very effective. You know, so if you post a picture with text underneath about animal welfare or something, people really it really hits them. And I find that I am getting a lot of people e-mailing me saying, you know, the picture you put up really struck me and I did more research and now I want to go Vegan, which I do. So it's it's obviously working know it's it's affecting people in a positive way, Brooke. Probably I mean, it hurts to see it, but we need to look because what do we look or we don't it's still happening. So what I want to do is bring awareness to this because it's happening every single second of every single day. And we're the ones that are giving it the power to consumers. So if we change what we buy, then the shops are going to have to change what they provide.

 

[00:25:31] You know, so it's the knowledge is power, I to say so, yeah. So it's working. Kind of.

 

[00:25:40] I went with the you mentioned a little bit about, you know, during the curation process and looking at impact and things like that. And I just interviewed the founder and president of PETA, Ingrid Newkirk, and I was and do you affiliate with organizations such as PETA or PETA itself or other things based out of Australia, or do you kind of keep living? Vegan dot com, like a little bit more separate.

 

[00:26:09] Yeah, I keep it, I pretty much keep it separate, I'm not really affiliated. I've been approached by many companies to post, you know, ads on my side.

 

[00:26:18] So that's enough for now. I'm not doing that because I feel like if the site is full of all these affiliations and all these ads kind of takes from the information. So for now, I'm just keeping a nice team and doing it myself and, you know, people like that. But you don't who knows in the future what would happen. But for now, it's just living Vegan on. So do many.

 

[00:26:40] I love it, too. I mean, it's very simple. You know, you have resources, recipes in your packages. It's it's very, very clean. Even the recipes, the pictures, they're very easy to digest.

 

[00:26:52] What I'm looking at, it is like I really appreciate that. I think a lot of people do in their clutter, you know, to do just kind of like I think down to axiomatic, like core principles is right. So I kind of wanna talk about your work. And before we dove into the book that you are currently writing, I want to talk about the work that you submit to. I wouldn't be surprised if there's like some Segway is there from Healthy for a Vegan Life U.K. magazine as well. Some places in tribute writing to keep your roles there. And like what genera and veganism do you speak to? Obviously, the dietician is going to come into play, but do you have a roadmap that you follow for those different magazines?

 

[00:27:36] And Sobecki about was about a year ago, I approached I approached from a five magazines and offered to write some content for him. And big, in my view, you were interested.

 

[00:27:47] So ever since I've been writing Monkey Country contributing monthly to them and sometimes to give meaning to topic, and sometimes I decide on topics. So it could be anything from, you know, pregnancy, breastfeeding. What is V12? How to boost your libido, you know, Vegan diets and skin health, things like that. You know, so it's it's very varied, but it's very interesting. And I really like to write. So I noticed and yeah, I get like a full two pages in their magazine every month, so it's great.

 

[00:28:18] I think everyone should require their dietician to be like a writer as well, because. Because it's keeping you up eight and soaps, halloumi, all of you Certina, any time someone's contributing to any monthly platform or anything like that with content, writing, YouTube and whatever, I'm I'm much more prone to think that their current, you know, and that's the idea. Yeah. Because I'm with their past principles and things like that, nothing's current. Medical books aren't updated too frequently.

 

[00:28:46] You know, no nutrition is ever changing. We learned so much to learn all the time. So when you have to write content, you obviously have to do a lot of research. So you're like you said, you're current, you're up to date, you're learning. I'm always learning as a dietician. You never stop learning. You're learning every day.

 

[00:29:03] So, yeah, it's important. I think that's exciting.

 

[00:29:08] Okay, so I want to kind of get into the book. I love, like previews and I love being on the front end of that. So what can you tell us about it? It's it's about Vegan pregnancy, prenatal about. So yeah.

 

[00:29:21] So I've got two books and two books. So one I'm hoping to launch early next year. That is see the reason it's like a resource type Vegan and starter tool kit book.

 

[00:29:31] So it's going to be very illustrative, very graphic, lot like not graphic, lots of bad pictures, very easy to read, colorful, bright. You know, it's not just going to be text. It's going to be very easy to read book. So this is basically going to be talkable, all the nutrients in detail. We talk about different diseases like chronic diseases, autoimmune diseases, talk fatuity, you have breastfeeding, pregnancy, all these topics to be covered. And then there's also going to be a psychology side of this as a psychologist based. So I had a psychologist help me out. Would it have been a content as well? So there's a lot to promote speciesism and things like that about animal welfare and all of that. So it's very comprehensive, very, very interesting. And it's really for people who are thinking about going vegan, there's a lot of stuff about getting started as a vegan, like a weekly meal plan, shopping, what you should buy at the shops, you know, documentaries, you should watch all that stuff.

 

[00:30:26] But it's also for people who are Vegan long term big and they just want to know more about the benefits of it. And, you know, why is it good for my health? And, you know, I go into a talk with a lot of dairy in the book. You don't need to know what's in it, like bad animal protein or some protein, all that kind of stuff. So it's really, really exciting. It's a really interesting book and I'm very excited to get it put together.

 

[00:30:49] So that's how we treat the Vegan best. So Vegan I love it. I've covered everything I normally say, but where is the action item? Where's the implementation? You know, a lot of people who author Vegan books either go one side or the other. It's all recipes and No. A scientific study and no implementation. And I'm like, there's like a a good mixture.

 

[00:31:15] Yeah. What do I do with this? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Obviously the second book is will probably not be ready to about twenty two, but that's the problem. Vegan pregnancy.

 

[00:31:25] So that's I have started it but I'm in the very early stages. So the first movie, the Vegan starter to Bible and the second one would be the bigger pregnancy the following year probably. So you're working on two books.

 

[00:31:38] That sounds flagship. I have not heard of it and I haven't done a search, so maybe there's a few out there, but it's taboo. And, you know, you kind of mentioned that earlier, but I have four children and know vegetarianism alone. But Vegan to certain obis, it was actually the way I vetted getting an OPG Y and, you know, it was pregnant, a new one. I mean, I was at a bit while I was forming my family and it's it's a rocky road. Have some. Oh yeah. Thousands of babies in their lifetime. Look at you and say you're going to damage yourself and your child. You know. I think they're all crucial to get information out there, and I haven't heard of any books and I certainly are certain that we weren't any on when I was doing my gestation. It's really. Can you tell us a little bit about, like some of the elements you're going to include in that?

 

[00:32:30] Yeah, so like I said, it's in the very early stages. Look, I basically just want I want women to know a lot of women. It's basically to be for women who are considering getting pregnant, who are Vegan, because obviously nutrition partners in nutrition begins before conception.

 

[00:32:44] So this book isn't just for why you're pregnant prior to as well or just people who are interested in you, what you eat while you're pregnant to begin to how to be healthy. So it's just I want to walk through all the nutrients, you know, what's important and how much you should be having and also obviously the sources of these foods. So people will have to be trying to figure it out for themselves and then maybe comparing, you know, Vegan pregnancies to not be the pregnancies and things about, you know, certain like fish. Fish is highly toxic and they can pass all that, all lots of Kompass to the baby through your placenta. A lot of women don't understand or realize that. So, you know, dove to all of that as well. Like the difference between animal protein and this protein in pregnancy.

 

[00:33:31] Yeah. So it's like I said, it's very early on in money in my chapter one. So it's what it's going to be an exciting book and it's going to be everything in there.

 

[00:33:41] It's going to be important for a woman who is having a baby and wants to have a healthy pregnancy and ensure she's got no nutritional deficiencies. Obviously talk with supplementation as well, because when you're pregnant, you do need to supplement to ensure that you're getting everything that you need.

 

[00:33:56] So that's also going to be good. I'm excited because I've had so sorry. I've had so many women emailed me in the last bubbles months.

 

[00:34:07] I've had a lot of women email me about the third week of pregnancy and, you know, just concerns and stuff. So I feel like this book is is is a must. It's very important for sure.

 

[00:34:17] Absolutely. I think that it's going to be a game changer for me. I'm going to push it out to everybody I know, because I women's health is so under and over. You know, it's not just the states. Like every country I've gone to, all of the health studies have been done largely on men, you know, and we don't have the same as we're all discovering. But I think it's it's so imperative. Little research until the fertility crisis hit, we really didn't understand a whole lot about pregnancy, which is amazing because it's responsible for the propagation of our species. You think you'd be the most funding out there? Well, we have more patients about erectile dysfunction than we have. So I know that's true that I'm wondering if you can kind of enumerate for me. You have these two books that are on the horizon, but where do you see some of the trends within the Vegan like diet alter heading? I'm kind of speaking to, I guess, products in particular. There was that huge push on net milks and things like that in the USA economy and things. When soy people were getting there, there was arguments about soy being bad and so everyone trying to net. But then there's no allergies. It's all about oatmeal. You know, Starbucks is getting oatmeal and everyone's oatmeal fanatics and things like that. But I'm wondering if you can kind of point towards because it's your it's your science and your trade and your education. Do you feel like there will be a return to, like a whole food Vegan diet? Or do you think there's going to be more of these, like foam meats and things like that as as this next five years kinds of unfolds?

 

[00:36:02] Yeah, I think a lot of these big companies can see, you know, where it's going. And where the money might be. And so I think there's going to be a lot of food meets and a lot of process to Vegan food. I mean, as a Vegan, I say, look, you know, in moderation, small amounts of processed foods and treat fruits are fine.

 

[00:36:19] But I feel like like you said when you started your Vegan journey to get a lot of that process still, as I think most vegans do. So I think the trick is to teach food. And that's okay in the short term when you're learning for, you know, a new one. But over time, you need to push more towards the whole food trampas approach because that's the healthy diet. That's I don't I call it a diet. That's the healthy lifestyle. Let's have the Vegan. I says eat wholesome campus. So, yeah, I think to be the junk food thing is going to shoot through the roof because I think these big companies who have a lot of money are just see where it's going and they know that that's where they're going to. They want to do well. So they've got to be another option, which is good for us both. We need to just ensure that we don't go crazy on the stuff. You know, focus more on Whole Foods than this.

 

[00:37:05] Yeah. I mean, for all of a lot of American economy, you know, there's billions of dollars being funded into this like impossible burger and faux me. And I don't think they all have it bad. In fact, I think with a boom in the industry, they'll they'll actually be these ones that are a little bit less perfect for you. I do want there to be a return to conversation about, you know, something being good for you. You know, being. Real food and not a bunch of preserved goals that are animal based, but still are really bad for the human body. All right. I want to turn towards we've covered your goals with these books and things like that. And now, I mean, to have you indulge me, if you would, with about 10 questions from our audience that we're very curious to find out.

 

[00:37:52] I've boiled down about 50. So for everyone listening questions, but I could I coagulated them, if you will. I correlated them together. So the number one is a lot of people ask about how do you personally start educating someone and about Vegan nutrition.

 

[00:38:10] Do you have like a top five? A lot of people were like, what are her top five? You know, like most important key concepts to understand about nutrition and the Vegan.

 

[00:38:18] Do you have any.

 

[00:38:22] Yeah, well, OK. So basically, when people are I have ever heard of. Melanie Joy to psychologist when Joy.

 

[00:38:31] She kind of turned Peronism and she talks about the trillions of justifications so people feel that what they're eating is normal, natural or necessary.

 

[00:38:40] So it kind of.

 

[00:38:42] And when someone comes to me and a new Vegan or they want to be in a kind of you have to kind of touch on that stuff.

 

[00:38:47] So you actually start with the psychology side of it. You know that it's it's just it's been so ingrained in this for so long that we believe in it so much in this story. But in fact, it's none of those. So I usually kind of talk a bit about speciesism.

 

[00:39:06] And all of that stuff. But at nutritionally, I take the top five, I would probably focus on what protein is a big one, even though for me it's one of the easiest ones, because basically, if you're if you're eating enough calories is a big beacon, you're getting enough protein.

 

[00:39:20] It's that simple. Unless you have, like an eating disorder or something, then you've got to protein pretty much. I mean, also necessary. And Chris Taito is every day. Chris, every day. Sorry. That's Irish. Irish for Chris. We are hearing a pretty well balanced diet. Proteins on issues, subprojects formidable because you just need to about two weeks. People always ask the second one would be big twelve because people are concerned. How we get eaten up as a big red. Generally, I recommend everybody supplemented beachwear finisher. Really. They can really focus on eating fortified foods every day at the same amount. You know, it's just so much easier to take a spray of V12 every day. So would you recommend that vitamin D would probably another one.

 

[00:40:04] Because as a beacon, you don't you don't get any very deep through your diet. So you need to obtain it either to supplement or from the sun. So we talk about that a bit.

 

[00:40:16] So protein vitamin D. and it'll make a series of mega cheese would be the next one of thing to dissolve. Is this the fourth? I'll make it through so healthy fats. So basically, people are worried about, you know, if I don't eat fish, what's going to happen? Malcolm, you're going to have the fat spill. What you don't realize is that fish contains a lot of dioxins and these are mad. And all this stuff that you read, you don't want your body and omega 3s fish to get. I make a cheese from reentry into water. So if you take a rain, I'd be happy supplement. You're gonna get the same omega 3s of the fish conserving what I'm consuming the fish, take out the middleman as such. So Marina B or you can just take, you know, almost two seeds, hemp seeds and stuff. So I'm Vegan three years out of the womb. And then I would probably go with iron.

 

[00:41:02] I think I'm a few people as well.

 

[00:41:04] So, you know, some people are more exposed to no iron levels when they're Vegan. But I think once you focus on eating foods containing ARED, then you do want to do OK. You know, like cooking your spinach. And having that every day or having lots of leafy greens, beetroot, blackstrap molasses, things like that, dried apricots, all that kind of thing. Ungood, stuff like that book. Some people will need to supplement bananas. Well, it depends on your art levels. But I always recommend to begins to get a low test maybe every six to 12 months, especially as a new Vegan just to ensure that everything is going as it should do.

 

[00:41:45] So they will probably I think that's fine. Make 3D printing doesn't fit.

 

[00:41:53] I'm wondering. And so we had another question along that same line and people were asking if you personally subscribe to a specific brand or kind of Vegan multi vitamin. There's millions out there.

 

[00:42:04] And I think sifting through the right ones and there's a lot of people that worry about certain areas that one is obtaining their vitamins like organic Vegan vitamins and things like that. What are your thoughts on that? Or do you have one that you recommend to your clients?

 

[00:42:19] When I recommend art wise? I take flooding sort if you have an eye over America, Florida, it's Nordics and Sparta. One is something that I recommend because Fashloom is just like a liquid art.

 

[00:42:31] It has no side effects. It doesn't cause constipation or anything like that. And it's very easy to take even for kids. So that's a really good aren't supplements. And then there's a product over here called by a sushi. Those if you happen over there, maybe not. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's the range I try Mike for me. One of the things I quite like my sentiments now. I don't think they're actually organic. What did you can get organic even better. Something always organic is better.

 

[00:42:57] You have Salu grow your own. We're very big up gardens right now in the States. I mean, there. Has a lot of different things that it's launched. But one of my favorite that I proudly contributed to is a vertical garden. Oh, wow. Yeah. Fornia. And space is on the ocean and prized possessions. So you don't donate your lawns to gardens. It's good they go up.

 

[00:43:23] Very good. Now, I take I'm sorry there's a delay. I think self-sufficiency is definitely the future. I have been growing your own products. Your own crops is definitely the way to go, even for people like me.

 

[00:43:36] And I always try to express my audience is sick of hearing me say it, but I feel like the only thing I can help thriver children like plants die on me. I'm not the greatest at that. I don't understand why I buy the fertilizer. I do the research, but I can actually. So if I can do it, everyone can. It's out there.

 

[00:43:56] Yeah. Yeah.

 

[00:43:57] Can two people ask if what the most important books are resources for you. Where do you glean a lot of your knowledge from? How do you stay up to date. Do you posture like your protheses and then go Fedder out the information, or do you have like these news feed rolls that you get it from?

 

[00:44:17] Well, I do. I spend a lot of time on progress. Twitch's has on the latest journal articles. So as a dietician, I have access to that.

 

[00:44:24] I mean, I'm sure I know people probably four, too, but I think you do have to pay up. See, I remembered Dieticians Association of Australia, so I'm on that every day. You know, that is Atkins for this year and stuff.

 

[00:44:37] But, um, also, like I said, I read for four people. I suggest they read books by campus doctors, you know, Dr. Gregor and Dr. Kofman or Colin Campbell. And there's some great books out there to China study. I highly recommend to your audience How Not to Die. All those books are really good. Read, read, educational, fantastic book. Basically for me it's more of the journal articles so I can read information from and if I hear something about new new research that's come out, then I go in and investigate myself, medical journals, different issues. And so sometimes I might hear it from somewhere else or someone else post about it, or a different dietician or different doctor. And then I go in and learn about research and sense. Yeah. So it's it's a constant study, constant, constant study. As a dietician, you you're always working on studying all this, trying to keep up to do. It's ever changing.

 

[00:45:30] Yeah. Ours. I wonder there are put in and asked about how you personally and your private practice, what is the most common reason that people are looking for your assistance is you people come to you for weight loss, disease, sitting them until what is like. Is there a larger category than others as to why people consult you and are turning Vegan?

 

[00:45:56] Well, I would say the main thing is health wise would be chronic disease, so tied to it. I just got diagnosed with Type two diabetes.

 

[00:46:03] My doctor said, if you're going to get a heart attack, I don't change my diet or put a huge amount of people as well for weight loss. So a lot of people like, are you go Vegan, but I want to lose 20 kilos or 40 pounds.

 

[00:46:17] Yes. So I think chronic disease maybe would be the reason. And then I cassadaga a lot of women asking questions about being in pregnancy. So they're probably the main main ones. Women with young children who have been told by their doctor that a child needs strong cow's milk to be healthy and stuff like that. So I try to educate them, teach them, and obviously, like so generally Cosulich recommended for one one year old. Well, basically, I recommend Stop the Child Once to finish breastfeeding and see breast all as best as long as possible. Once the child's finished breastfeeding, we recommend to unsweetened soy milk. Organic soy milk is as close to an cowslip without all the bad stuff. And or I can repeat with Campina, which is also good, but that's only after the child's turn. One would recommend that APC's comes with a tiny constipating two babies and children. So it's not recommended.

 

[00:47:13] Absolutely. I we had a bunch of people learning that you were a Vegan parent right in. And they were wondering about how you personally, because you have so much information. How do you educate your children and kind of arm them with the proper amount of information, given their respective young ages, you know, to your can handle very little. Eleven year old can handle a lot. But how many them and things like that. How do you kind of provide them with information for when they socialize.

 

[00:47:45] Yeah. So basically one of my obviously my youngest is fifteen and so she has no idea yet. I have a tree and a half year old and almost five year old.

 

[00:47:53] So they're they ask a lot of questions when we bought a lot of books about veganism and you know, to teach children in a very easy way, why were Vegan and stuff like that? Do you understand that? It's amazing. They're so accepting of it. And you know that dad told people we don't eat animals because we love them. We want to be happy. It's very cute. But I didn't tell them about you know, I explained to them that we need to look after our bodies and healthy foods from the flesh of animals that is good for our bodies. And it's not so nice for the animals because they have suffered and they understand the green, leafy green vegetables and colorful fruits and vegetables are very good for their bodies. And they're very aware. And you know that to be not your move to understand. It's it's a really good, good way to start them in their life, to understand the importance of healthy plants and, you know, not. It's enough to see, you know, some people say, oh, you know what? You're restricting your child and you shouldn't. It's not fair. We like people who are raising their child or niece or are not teaching or childhood. If it's coming from one teacher teaching, why should it? Since coming from so, I believe that you can only guide them a certain amount. And once the research reach a certain age, it's going to be up to them. So I'm hoping that what I've taught them would be enough for them to continue on campus. So I agree. Yeah, they're pretty knowledgeable for their age, so I'm pretty happy like it.

 

[00:49:14] I always tell people it was. It was. Sounds terrifying. Is actually an open door opens a door for me to link other principles and core core values that my family employs, you know, compassion and ability. Global citizenship. You know, these ideas about know what we can't see. It doesn't mean it's not still happening. Yeah. So it allowed me I used it as, you know, as an opportunity and continued to, you know, and also to reexamine my own dialog. We're doing, as any parent will tell you, is that's the main thing with having children. It allows you to just completely reexamine your relationship with some once thought, you know, first year. Yeah. I go I to find it as a source of education. And, you know, I think that having a child and they really in childhood, they are forming a relationship and bringing that to the forefront, that you are building a relationship with food, whether or not knowledge it, every adult world has a billion relationships with food. Absolutely. And unhealthy and sudden realize that as you're doing it, bring it to cognition is. Aw, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So the final obvious question and that we had a ton of people ask about and so I'm going to ask the kind of broad and let you just go where you want with it. But it was naturally about Cobbett, the teen pandemic. And there's so many different facets and I don't ascribe lineage or blame to any country. There's a ton of talk about what markets, particularly with begins, and that's fine. And, you know, I have my own private foundation there with what I believe. But you as a dietitian. Again, because you have a lot of people coming in with health that there will be eventually, you know, people coming in wanting to prevent Koven and things like that, moving forward as a reason why they're consulting with you. But do you a sound bite that you offer people who do have clients currently, they ask you about it. You have anything that you can kind of state about diet and things like pandemic's, you know, or the current state of Cauvin that you advise people with regularly.

 

[00:51:24] So are you waiting in order to boost immune system, prevent coded or post covered worlds? You have that like all of it. You know, good advice you have.

 

[00:51:36] Yes, well, obviously, as a stronger your immune system, the less likely you are to catch anything. So if you're healthy and you eat an antiinflammatory diet and you get plenty of rest and you know, you exercise and you eat lots of fiber and colorful organic whole foods, you're going to be much more likely to fight off poverty if you patches or maybe prevent yourself from getting because the stronger immune system that's like you to catch things. Bacteria, viruses, salt.

 

[00:52:05] And in terms of the post-Cold War, the world still I mean, you know, like you said, people put blame on things like I really believe that the factory farming and all that stuff is is obviously always taught or is wrong. But after the cold. But it just shows that, you know, it's risky. What we're doing, what we're doing is risky. I mean, animals carry diseases. You've got animals, not even wet markets. We're just inside and these chicken houses and all cooped up together. They got diseases and they're sick and, you know, there's a risk of passing on stuff to humans. You know, so I just think that that kind of food is not we wanted to put it in your body. So I think. Stay away from it. Stay away from animals products even more so ethical that I need a morsel. I definitely wouldn't be wanting to eat animal products after after Kofman 19.

 

[00:52:59] But, yeah, just generally, there's not really anything specific. But just keep your immune system healthy. Just easy eating a healthy, wholesome thomkins diet, exercising every day, getting enough sleep. Not too much stress because people find this very stressful.

 

[00:53:14] This whole thing is very stressful. When you're stressed, you're more likely to catch things. So you need to do what you need to do. Yoga, meditation. Take a hop wrestle for. Do whatever works readable. We live in a very stressful world and I read a post code. I find paper even more niche, more anxiety. More people are just scared. And also it's very important to look out for mental health and physical health.

 

[00:53:39] Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Well, Yvonne, we are out of time, but I want to say thank you so much for taking the time today and giving us all of your information. I am Perman woman and I will circle back around once your book goes up and you are on your tour to be part of that circuit so that our audience can have this follow up with the first the the first Vegan Bible, as I've turned it.

 

[00:54:03] Maybe that would be the new thing. Do you have a title for it? No, my guess. OK. What do I do now?

 

[00:54:12] The app. Don't call it that. I would do that. Should they name people can look it up first and then the subsequence, you know, pregnancy and begin and pre pregnancy and Vegan fertility and Vegan, you know, all of those areas that book I will keep pestering you for as well. But thank you so much for giving us your time today. No problem. Thanks for having me on. It's good for everyone listening. We've been speaking with Yvonne O'Halloran and she's a dietician. You can find out more about all of her work. I assume her future books will be posted there as well. It's w w dot living Vegan dot com.

 

[00:54:48] And thank you for sharing your time with us today and with myself personally. Please stay safe, eat responsibly and clean and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

 

Talking with Ania Mroz-Pacula; CEO of Ferron, a vegan luxury brand

Today I chat with Ania Mroz-Pacula. Ania is a CEO of FERRON, a vegan luxury designer brand, that enables her to be creative and talk about things that are important to her- sustainability, cruelty-free lifestyle and empowering women entrepreneurs. When she's not working or researching ways to lower her negative impact on the planet, Ania is usually busy with her rescued babies, 4 year old Beagle- Harrier, Oscar, and 3-year-old Husky cross, Maya.

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with the CEO of FERRON, which is a Vegan luxury handbag brand Ania Mroz Pacula key points addressed were on his work that tie her humanitarian efforts into FERRON brand. We also discussed key elements of her handbags, products and her efforts to ensure that every stage of the production was as clean as possible, given the infancy of her company's age. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Ania Mroz Pacula.

 

[00:00:36] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Acom, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:33] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Ania Mroz Pacu. Ania Is the CEO of FERRON.

 

[00:01:42] It's a Vegan luxury brand. You can find out more about it and Ania as well on her Web site. W w w dot FERRON dot c o. That is Effy r o n dot CEO. Welcome, Ania.

 

[00:01:55] Thank you. Thank you for having me. Absolutely, I am excited to climb through.

 

[00:02:00] We were talking before we got started and I really love both your company, the ethos, the philosophy, as well as the product and kind of like learning out on.

 

[00:02:09] I'm a little obsessive and I have to get myself one. But before we get to all of that, I will tell everyone who's listening who hasn't listened to our podcast before. I'll give you a quick roadmap in which our inquiry will be based today. And then I'll give you a brief bio on Ania before I start asking her all of our wonderful questions. So a roadmap for today's inquiry will be we'll first cover Ania's academic and professional background and then we'll look at kind of unpacking her Vegan story if it hasn't already come to fruition within the academic and professional background. Then we'll turn to the logistics around FERRON, namely the who, what, when, where, why, how of the company. And then we'll turn to the philosophy and the ethos based around it and all of its endeavors.

 

[00:02:49] We'll get into the Vegan nature, the UK, where unus based out of the difFERRONces and then some of the stylistic choices of her products, things like that.

 

[00:02:59] And then we'll talk about future plans and also just particular's with the Vegan story as it pertains to FERRON and yet in particular.

 

[00:03:06] So, as promised, a quick bio on Ania, Ania is as sustainability and waste reduction advocate with a passion for working with people and building relationships. She's the CEO of Feron, a Vegan luxury designer brand that enables her to be creative and talk about things that are important for her sustainability, cruelty free lifestyles and empowering women entrepreneurs.

 

[00:03:29] When she's not working or researching ways to lower her negative impact on the planet, she's usually busy with rescued babies, with her rescue babies, her four year old beagle, Herry Harrier Oscar and three year old Husky Cross. I'll have to get into those names, Maya, who love exercising more than she does. She volunteers at Launch Pad Reading, organize and attends meet ups in the Reading and London area. And she travels whenever she can as well, which is a little put on hold. I'm sure right now. I'm so excited to climb through everything that you do and everything you have kind of postured here. But prior to getting to that, I'm wondering if you can kind of walk us through your academic background and early professional life at book as it led to launching Feron.

 

[00:04:21] Sure. Yes. Thank you. So to be completely honest. My education and early kind of experience, job experiences are ups and nothing to do with what I do at the moment.

 

[00:04:38] So I am fresh. I moved to the UK. Oh, gosh. Way too long now. And then I went to university. This was my dream come true. Basically, I like the challenge. When I arrived, I didn't speak any English. I went to a community college, got the English language lessons that took me about a year to be ready to enroll into what was, again, my dream, a journalism with criminology.

 

[00:05:10] So I finished the degree and then it kind of a kind of I move from job to job. And then I ended up working in H.R..

 

[00:05:25] And as much as long as I like some bits, some parts of the H.R. role.

 

[00:05:31] I've been doing it was too structured for me, if you will. Mind you, it was a I.T. sector. So obviously everything is kind of fast paced and moving. That's what I liked the most. And then. Yeah. Meeting, meeting people, meeting various people, coming from difFERRONt backgrounds, difFERRONt cultures. That's why kind of. I appreciated at the time, but I always kind of knew that this isn't this is not it. I've been doing a lot of outside work activities that kind of led me to explore the sustainability and Vegan passion more and more.

 

[00:06:18] Um. And yeah, the the way I kind of ended up launching fire on is just by a lot.

 

[00:06:27] I met this beautiful couple that that cared about the animals. And whenever for, you know, for a cruelty that fashion is sadly intertwined with at the moment. So we came up with the idea, with the product. They've done a lot of legwork for me, too. So I have to mention that, unfortunately.

 

[00:06:58] They kind of they say they take their personal circumstances have changed and they weren't able to dedicate as much time and resources into the brand.

 

[00:07:09] So after careful consideration and obviously discussion discussions with my husband, I decided to buy the brand fully and so effectively, officially off the last last year. April Theran is as is my my band, my on any front originally.

 

[00:07:37] Peggy, when was it launched originally from?

 

[00:07:42] It was launched in 2018. March 2018. That's where our first baby came out.

 

[00:07:51] Nice. Yeah. In those first five years, there's so much transition that happens within myself. It's all about staying flexible. Right. For the pivot. That keyword pivot I climb through Feron and it's attachment to. It's big in values, in the sustainability that it sounds like it already was. But before we get there, do you can you describe. So are you yourself. Vegan. And how did you attach. How did you know that you wanted to. How did all of the people that began the project understand or know that they wanted to make sure that it was sustainable and Vegan in nature?

 

[00:08:28] So I come from a family that was obsessed with meat and.

 

[00:08:38] And not only in terms of food, but also animals used for fashion. So I vividly remember and bless her heart. I love my mom to bits that it was this old fashioned old generation of people where she would she would be making sure that all the investments she does is it's in leather because it's high quality. It's it's versatile.

 

[00:09:07] It's obviously it's more kind of sturdy.

 

[00:09:13] And, you know, it's going to last us for a longer time, longer period of time than any synthetic material. And I just I don't know. I think I was very empathetic, sympathetic, um, child always. And I kind of I never agreed with with usage of animals for for the sake of fashion or anything, really. So I'm I'm Vegan at the moment. Yes. But I've it's not I've been vegetarian most of my life, but I transition to Vegan is probably around three years ago and.

 

[00:09:53] And that was a very conscious and very obviously adult driven decision.

 

[00:09:59] It was I just I just knew I had to do that to move even further from being vegetarian to Vegan.

 

[00:10:10] Yeah, there's a lot of difFERRONt ways to come at it. And it sounds like you have several in your own personal story. You know, a lot of people come in, particularly some of the younger generations coming up right now. You know, Generation Y or whatever, we're going to name them as well as generation ahead of them. But there's been a lot of people that come at it from the accountability and sustainability. And I think some of the older guard, and maybe this is too general, but come at it or you came to the Vegan lifestyle from compassion, you know, from these kind of animal rights moments that were happening and really big in the 80s and 90s when they were hitting their genesis. But it doesn't really matter how you get there. I think it sounds like you have a combination of this, you know, empathy and compassion for animals as well as this, you know, this huge push that you have in your every day life towards sustainability and, you know, and being fiscally proactive in conservation of the Earth and its resources. I'm curious when you so let's unpack it really quickly. So everyone who's listening. So it's a it's a Vegan luxury designer brand. And it's you mainly deal with handbags, correct?

 

[00:11:19] Correct. So at the moment, it's an online store. So it's it's a designer bag. So you are closely in touch it with with the design of the back. So. And we aren't sure at the moment.

 

[00:11:38] Oh, we we only have three difFERRONt colors. There's the same design in three difFERRONt colors. Obviously we hoping to grow and expand on our designs. But the moment this is just one classic piece, it's our signature collection. And hopefully we'll be able to grow from here.

 

[00:12:01] Yeah, I love it. I was talking to you before we started. And because of a history in fashion photography and I've had fashions, my my safe space where I go to explore and have fun. And that includes handbags and accessories and things like that. And people who follow a lot of my podcast know that I'm I'm nothing short of a fan of Stella McCartney, both in her clothing and handbags. And for a long time, she was kind of one of the only major designers that was overtly, you know, vegetarian and had Vegan products. And so but we were talking about the classical. I love the style of your. I have to say the signature cross body in Camel is such a. It's bull. It's so in one. And I leave things that are classic and iconic, like the Coco Chanel era. And yet so contemporary. You know, your lines are so clean and everything is so. And here's my tie in with with Vegan and that because I feel like a lot of designers, clothing and accessories who deal in leather substitutes or leather like materials become very scared of that kind of modern clean line because they're terrified that the it will be perceived as immediately not leather or, you know, sub sub leather. And I love that you guys kind of took that full on, you know, not only in kind of being this luxury design, but also this minimalistic where imperfections do show, you know, that's there. They say if you want a really great paint job, don't put anything on the walls or the floor and look at it because it's like there's nothing to hide anything, you know? And the same is true with design. And I'm wondering how that how that's been perceived and also how that kind of has been received. Like, you know, if you go on your Web site, you see that you have an attachment to Vogue and things like that. How is your reception since hitting the market ban large?

 

[00:13:50] I just love what you just said. Yes. So the idea was to always to go for a timewell timeless staple and very versatile piece. And I think we managed to do just that. And to date, I've been receiving a really good reviews not only from our customers, but also from the people that have seen the bag. I think that one of the best, this compliment that we've received today was the fact that I'm a cobbler person, that, you know, he's been working in difFERRONt industries, difFERRONt not my being justice, but he's always been working with the leather.

 

[00:14:37] And he he actually said that he he thought that is leather. It's just so well made. And the material is super, super doable as well as beautiful. And it gives you just a leather like feel to it. So I love everything about the back and the fact that you can unhook destruct and use as a handbag or a body or a shoulder bag.

 

[00:15:09] And I think I think everyone kind of appreciates the versatile versatility of it.

 

[00:15:18] Yeah, it has that. And it has both masculine and feminine qualities. I don't mean labels like that. However, you know, if you were to kind of denote the classical, you know, masculine and feminine, it has both like classical brands. Did you know Chanel in particular is always coming to mind? Because it was a very structured look and that was usually used for men, you know, and and and to have that come in and also represent the women. And I love that for your your pieces, they feel incredibly versatile and that they span, you know, this new awakening we're having regarding, you know, gender and fluidity and all of that. It just speaks to all of those things so well. And I like the simplicity and not having too much of a variation right now. I think people branch out and many, you know, too many versions of something too quickly and yours. It really does just kind of exemplify it. You can tell I'm a fan. I'm wondering when you went your product that the materials that you did, were you involved in that process? And if so, what? Did you kind of sample. Like, what did you consider before you landed on the material that you landed on?

 

[00:16:25] And can you tell us a little bit about that material through material that is used at the moment is PITU and I'm not going to be lying. It's a synthetic material, so it's not the most sustainable one at the moment.

 

[00:16:40] And there are difFERRONt Matute, you probably know that are difFERRONt fabrics being developed and being sort of developed and also trialed. And I'm more than happy to explore all the options for the future humpbacks and difFERRONt designs for fibrin. However, at this stage, I must say that's when we kind of this side is on the materials that we use for the bags. We just knew that we the most important part part for us at the decision of this decision in the decision process was to make sure that the material is it's is it gives you the luxurious feel and touch to it. And that was that was. And we did sample a few other materials, but we just we were quite disappointed with the whole look. And we actually made some samples out of the materials that we sampled. And then the result wasn't as beautiful as thoroughness today. But again, I'm conscious.

 

[00:18:04] I'm very conscious of the fact that, you know, not the most sustainable material. And I'm happy to explore some other options.

 

[00:18:14] And this is time. I mean, I think, you know, that's it's cool that you're being honest and open and years. Yeah. Kind of your only option. And now, you know, people are still playing around, but you've got pineapple leathers coming out. Apple leather is like it's a great time to, you know, be able to consider it and really sample the market and switch when you feel comfortable. I'm curious about like the hardware and things like that. Wood, did you pay great attention? Because when I think of luxury, I think of those details, you know, that Birkin bag moment and obviously not being something I own or it's not Vegan. It's just a very, very classical, iconic, you know, handbag that people think of. And it's the Birkin hand stitching, right, that everybody talks about. There's very tiny details. And for me, with with your brand, I think that the hardware would become very thoughtful. So can you tell us a little bit about that and how you guys are sourcing that as well as your production? Is that happening in the UK? Is it being outsourced to overseas? A little bit about that.

 

[00:19:13] Yes.

 

[00:19:14] So we went through a great deal of research in terms of their hard work, is that the back is so simple that, you know, the hardware we knew straight away that it's going to stand out is just going to stand out. So we need we need it to make sure that it's enhanced this luxurious look as well as the rest of the bag. So we've sampled quite a number of Hardwell details elements. So, yeah, it was a long, long process as well as the logo itself. So I don't know if you know this, but we do have a logo of our elephant. And we kind of that's linked with the charity work that we do. So we do support the Sheldrick Wildlife Trust, where we donate 10, 10 pound of each box sold to the orphanage in Kenya, which is absolutely amazing. And we we love collaborating with the with the charity days. They state is such an amazing job. But let's move to the materials and hardware, etc.. So. So their bags are actually manufactured in China. And again, that's I know that that's very disappointing to some of their customers. I actually had some people contacting me and saying that they are not going to be supporting a brand that manufactures in China. And I do understand it and. And I myself, as a customer, I would be concerned and I would be doing a thorough research about the brand by what I can tell you, I can I can promise you that myself, as the ex colleagues, we made sure we made the trips to China, to our manufacturer sites. We made sure that not only our factories, that the factories are Vegan and don't use any animal survival products, but we we just want to to make sure that we get to know them. And we are in contact with them and we appreciate what they do for us, because let's face it, it is the most economic lead, logical point of manufacturing the products at this stage. Again, this is something that I'm more than happy to explore, investigate and potentially move the factories that we use into Europe. And I've done some research and this might be something that we'll be investigating where we think at this stage it's it's China.

 

[00:22:14] Yeah, absolutely. I see on your website you talk about FERRON, the name actually being Latin and mean iron gray hair or one who is well dressed in gray. How does that tie in to the brand? What is the communication there?

 

[00:22:31] So we always want to give back to the charity that supports supports orphaned elephants. So that was, if anything, that was the starting point for us.

 

[00:22:43] So we always want to make sure that the brand evolves around elephants given back, spreading the message about Vegan and more sustainable lifestyle and hence the name. Again, I was a lot of research and investigating and voting in. But we came up with a with the with the brand name. And I, I honestly, I do love it. It's, it's kind of it's strong.

 

[00:23:17] It gives you this simple message and kind of bold boldness of the, you know, of of what we want to present to the world.

 

[00:23:28] I think it ties in beautifully with with the image on the label as well as this. It's a very simple line drawing. That is your your logo or if you will, of the elephant. I think it's all very beautiful. You have a blog on your say. I feel like this is where you kind of really connect. Aside from the materials and things like that, you talk about, you know, difFERRONt Vegan aspects that are environmentally affecting things, how silk is made. You have difFERRONt person, things like that. How do you decide what is curated? Like what what makes it into the your blog or not? And do you yourself compose it or do you outsource that?

 

[00:24:06] So I compose a composer.

 

[00:24:08] I very often collaborate with other people, so I believe that the blog post you mentioned about silk, I kind of I wrote that with another lady. She has her own band. She's in an organic cotton clothing industry, if you will. So, yeah, I do. I kind of do my research.

 

[00:24:35] I go online and I see what what is the most viewed kind of and researched. What are the most researched terms for Vegan fashion in general?

 

[00:24:52] And I research Piton Web site. I go to my absolute guru. You probably know him. Joshua Kotcher. He's he's a Ments menswear fashion brand owner, brave gentleman. So I just I reach out to the Vegan fashion and entrepreneurs for kind of inspiration because I think we're in this together. And the more we spread awareness about veganism and sustainability, the better for the world in general. So. So, yeah, I honestly, I do believe it's a teamwork.

 

[00:25:38] I agree. Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious about what the scene over in the UK is in London and difFERRONt areas of the UK regarding fashion that is Vegan in the States it's becoming it's over. I would say over the past at least five years, it's kind of not just blossomed, but taken off, you know, and it's it's due to all of these difFERRONt areas. The conversation about long before covered nineteen pandemic and took over. There was a huge conversation, particularly in fashion in the United States, about really being accountable, you know, and and talking. Having those conversations about sustainability, being more transparent about fashion, like littering the landfills. Designers are doing a lot of what you did with your brand, which is kind of going down to very few options and then being classical. That could stand the test of decades. As you know, you don't need to buy a new handbag every year. This is the one you can have for a decade, you know, hand down to your your sister or your daughter or something, your friend. So those kinds of conversations really start taking over. Designers that weren't Vegan had those conversations because they, you know, they were being asked the questions. And so I'm curious if it's the same in the UK, if you've seen it in the trajectory kind of spike with people being interested. And also with people wanting to own items that were eco friendly and sustainable and Vegan and accountable for not impacting the animal kingdom.

 

[00:27:10] Yes, it's a very, very good question. So.

 

[00:27:15] I opted in for the for the Vegan bags because as I did mentioned before, I, I, I just wanted to save the animals from being the victims of the fashion, vanity and like of thoughtless pursuit of of of stay on trend. So it's it's shocking to think that, you know, our desire for for cheap clothes, our desire and kind of sense of entitlement to feeling that we can take someone someone's life in the name of fashion is just horrendous. And whilst I'm seeing I'm noticing a big spike in the does that are more and more people are happy to invest in organic food and cruelty, food and Vegan and plant based food. There's still I believe there's still quite some times quite some work to do around clothing and fashion in general. Don't get me wrong, there are fashion shows. So last year in August, Tharon was actually one of the participants of the fashion show. It's a it's the only UK Vegan fashion show. And there are exhibitions and shows and pop ups coming up every now and then. But I think that's yet in terms of the clothing in general and fashion, if you can fashion, there's still some work to do and believe it or not. Quite recently I had a lady contacting me. She'd email to the mailbox and she said that she loves the back. She loves the look of it. She loves the design. But at this price point, she prefers to buy a real leather bag. And and, you know, I didn't respond. I just didn't because I got very upset, not by the fact that she doesn't want to invest in fibrin. But that kind of defeats the whole point of investing in cruelty free fashion, you know. Yeah. And maybe I shoot maybe in a in a while when I'm kind of I'm going to cool down. I will respond to, you know, provide a structured answer because that's that's what I mean. People they don't you think about how something is made. They just think about the price. And let's face it, if we you know, if we need to be be ready to spend a bit more for something dies environmentally friendly and.

 

[00:30:13] Yeah, I agree. I completely concur. And I feel like that's why Stella McCartney and people that have come out as you know, as being vegetarian and big and brands are so powerful because it is still luxury that the price point is still designer runway. And and and I don't think that the continuity is which mean, in fact, there's a divorce from it. And a lot of industries where you get something environmentally friendly and there's more labor, it could because it's new. You know, things haven't come down in price. There's not enough competition and things of that nature. But it's also the caring shouldn't be free, you know, I mean, like as far as like with efforts that we put into, things should mean something to us. And I agree with that. I think attributing a lower price point to non leather is absolutely silly. I think you should, you know, perhaps pay a touch more for that new effort and things like that going through. That's neither here nor there, though. I'm wondering, what do you see? So this obviously with the pandemic, this has changed for a lot of people. And I'm wondering if it's changed really being a solely online enterprise, perhaps, and perhaps not. And what is the future for FERA? Do you are you going to expand on designs? Are you going to keep it where it's at? Are you going to expand it to difFERRONt marketplaces? You're available online? Does it shipped from the UK or are you going to try to get a United States presence? Is that down the road or not at all? What are the future plans for on.

 

[00:31:39] So I never wanted FERRON to just be an online store.

 

[00:31:43] If that makes sense. Oh, well, one collection even. So I really want to be a part of a bigger picture of the change in the fashion industry. And, you know, the cinema cottony. Courtney, this is this is this is my guru, too. This is an amazing example of how things should go in fashion. So I'm hoping down on the good path, on doing that, on expanding. So I'm planning on expanding the brand with more designs to really offer more kind of scale up model. And then the plan is to obviously do the whole wholesale and distribute much larger quantities. At the moment, we only an online store. However, we are we are part of a few marketplaces around the world. Actually, we do have some marketplaces in the states. And then I say that a majority of my customers are funding enough. They come from United States, especially Canada, which I'm very curious why that is. So, yeah, I'd love to open a boutique in London, too. Who knows? But at the moment, I think I'm being a very positive person, so I'm not trying to jump ahead and, you know, dwell on things. But unfortunately, I think that the current situation will kind of impact my plans. And and I'm going to have to brace myself and be more patient, which I'm struggling with.

 

[00:33:27] Well, I think everyone as well. So much for talking with me today. We're out of time, but I really appreciate you kind of unpacking FERRON and what it's doing and just all of your honesty and transparency. I really appreciate it. And I hope all the success in the world for, you know, your future Vegan endeavors with their on and outside of that and very projects spoken to you today.

 

[00:33:52] Thank you. Thank you for having me. He was a real pleasure.

 

[00:33:56] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we have been speaking with Ania Mroz Pacula. She is the CEO of FERRON. It's a Vegan luxury brand. You can find out more and purchase those items on. W. W. W. Dot. F. E. R. Oh. And c. O. And until we speak again next time.

 

[00:34:14] Remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and clean and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

 

Talking with Vanita Badlani Bagri; Activist, Entrepreneur, CEO & Founder

Today I am talking with Vanita Badlani. Vanita is a sustainability activist, entrepreneur, CEO, and Founder of LaBante London. She has an MBA in International Business from Thunderbird, The American Graduate School of International Business in Arizona, USA. After a career in investment banking, she switched to her true love – pursuing her childhood passion for fashion and worked her way to making fashion sustainable and cruelty-free.

 

Key points addressed were  

• Unpacking Vanita’s efforts to base Labante’s ethos of sustainability into the brand and products social message
• We also discussed some of the difficulties in finding vegan leather products that did not contain harmful ingredients such as PVC as she went into manufacturing her products

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with activist, entrepreneur and founder of the Vegan handbag line called Libonati London Vanita Badlani. Key points addressed were unpacking vanity's efforts to base Labonte his ethos of sustainability into the brand and products social message. We also discussed some of the difficulties in finding Vegan leather products that did not contain harmful ingredients such as BVC as she went into manufacturing her products. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Vanita Badlani.

 

[00:00:40] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:37] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today, I'm very excited to be sitting down with Vanita Badlani, she is an activist, entrepreneur, CEO and founder. You can find out more regarding what we talk about today, as well as her products on Labonte, a dot com.

 

[00:01:52] That is L.A. b a n t e dot com. Welcome, Vanita.

 

[00:01:58] Hi, Patricia. Thank you for having me on your show.

 

[00:02:01] Absolutely, I I'm excited to climb through everything that you're doing with Liban Day and your products as well as your history for everyone listening.

 

[00:02:09] Who hasn't listened to my podcast before. I will offer you a quick roadmap of where the line of inquiry will be coming from and going to the podcast today. And then I will also read a quick bio on Veny to give you a platform as to where she's coming from. The roadmap that today's trajectory will follow is we'll look at events, does academic and professional background, and then we will look at unpacking her vegetarian slash Vegan journey. As it stands on a personal level, if it is not already tied into her aforementioned information, then we will look at unpacking Libonati and the logistics around her company when it was started. Who? What funding? All of those things. And then we'll start unpacking the ethos of how she embraces a specific philosophy with a company. We will also address goals for the brand and how that ties into vegetarian and vegan endeavors. We'll look at who her customer is and then we'll wrap everything up with future work that Venita looks at having over the next one to three years. As promised, a quick bio on Vanita. Prior to asking her questions that Neeta. But Loni is a sustainability activist, entrepreneur, CEO and founder of Libonati London. She has an MBA in international business from Thunderbird, the American Graduate School of International Business in Arizona, USA, after a career in investment banking. She switched to her true love, pursuing her childhood passion for fashion and worked her way to making fashion sustainable and cruelty free. So, Venita, I know that and we kind of crawl through everything quickly. I'm hoping that you can kind of divulge just a little bit more information about your academic and professional background and how that catapulted you into launching Libonati.

 

[00:03:52] Absolutely.

 

[00:03:55] To start off with, I was born in India, and through my years I actually worked in fashion in my uncle's business on and off and all my summer holiday. So I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I guess by the age of. Thirteen, fourteen. Quite young, Ben. And I always say the single minded focus grew into like a business I did a undergrad in business. And then after working a couple of years in India, I went to. Came over to Arizona, where I graduated international business from Thunderbird, which is ranked number one for its international business program because I knew. While I was working in my uncle's office, working with a fashion merchandizers designers, we used to supply two big box retailers like Calvin Klein, Macy's. So it really wasn't my blood from a very young age. And when I landed up doing the international business degree, I did it in finance because, as you know, the backbone of any business is cash flow and how it performs. Not only on profitability, but also at the same time keeping all the fundamentals in the black.

 

[00:05:22] Yeah, after that relationship as well.

 

[00:05:26] Cash flow as it goes. I'm interested about the relationship between cash flow and sustainability as we speak later on. But go on.

 

[00:05:33] Yes. Yes, I did. And I will cover that when we discuss a bit more about sustainability as well. But when I graduate from business school, it was straight after 9/11. It was really hard to get a job at that time. But finally, after six to eight months of really Grilli like really trying really hard and managed to get a job in investment banking in Chicago. Whereas working for Bank one, which then later got acquired by JP Morgan. So I moved I worked originally for in Chicago, loved, loved Illinois and then moved to New York. Where I worked for JP Morgan. But I had to move to London, where, again, I continued in investment banking with Commerce Bank and Dresdner Kleinwort, where I worked in strategy and the strategy team for the CEO and CEO's office to help get prisoner Kleinbaum to be bought over by Commerce Spang.

 

[00:06:38] So that was really where my professional life. When did was purely numbers oriented? But always, Patricia. There was like a niggling feeling in the base of my stomach that my calling was always to do much more. And I saw a window of opportunity when I decided to have a baby. And I said, OK, it's now or never. It's now or never. I'm going to do it. I took all my savings and I put it into a brand called Alabam. Take Lavonte by the waste comes from the Sanskrit term to truly achieve where it means. It's about the circle of life. It's more about giving back than it is taking from the planet. And that really became the ethos of the pillars of the brand that I set up.

 

[00:07:27] So when you launched Liban today, did you have a clear idea of the product that you were building and the direction that you were headed, or did it kind of gradually unfold?

 

[00:07:39] I think it's a that's a great question for show.

 

[00:07:42] I knew that as a brand, it's always going to be easiest to spread the word about sustainability and cruelty free fashion if it's a bit more in your face. So handbags don't have a brand name on them. Whereas with clothing, it's a bit harder where the labels are hidden.

 

[00:08:00] So originally, because I had only started with my own capital, my hard earned money that I put into the business, I did not take any outside investment. I started a really small way, the sterling silver ethically made jewelry business, which I supplied into big box retailers. But as I grew that business, I knew that the trend would be to go into handbags next. So I had planned it so that I would launch the handbags with a bit more capital. So as the business grew, I was able to take that into the handbags business and build a line which I knew really from the beginning would be Vegan cruelty free and sustainable. Because, you know, Patricia, I don't know if you remember, there was the days when you would go shopping and you would try to local, beautifully crafted handbags and which were cruelty free. But quite frankly, only thing all you found on the shelves will ever handbags. And if you will look for the non leather bags, they would be like the P you the cheap feeling kind of quality. It looked tacky and looked like not so great. The top felt like plastic. And that's not what I wanted our brand to be. I wanted it to be premium. I wanted to have the same craftsmanship as the leather bags. But I don't want to give a quality to the customer. But I knew that in order to get this true to the right customer base and spread the sustainable message, it would have to be at an accessible price point where most department stores or stocks would be happy to stock it so that there's enough potential in their return.

 

[00:09:46] They get enough return on investment as well for the retail space to give to us. So. So that was a gradual transition into handbags. And then coming up with the handbag line, which also took a year or two to get the esthetic of the brand looking and feeling the right way that it should be, because that was we did quite a bit of research, really find the best materials. That was what was time consuming and that was really what makes the essence of the brand.

 

[00:10:13] So when did you what year was it that you were shopping for materials and how did that curation process work? So we haven't spoken to too many. I will say we are speaking with a few more Vegan handbag makers currently and for the podcast, and a lot of them are in different parts of the world. So it's interesting to find out how your experience in the UK was. But when you went shopping, first of all, what was the year and what was the material selection and is it different now?

 

[00:10:44] Yes.

 

[00:10:45] So when I went so when I would sort of go about it was about twenty thirteen. And by the time we launch the first time my collection was twenty fifteen.

 

[00:10:55] So took two years really to get that process perfectly nailed. Because what happened. Patricia, is that in the shopping process. We found that there were lot of materials available, but a lot of them contained QVC. Now PDC is nothing but plastic. So the whole planet can block these PDC handbags will be flying in space. I mean, it's that ridiculous of a material. And that's something I did not want to contribute towards because I cannot say that we truly Vegan cruelty free, which means we don't harm animals. We're truly sustainable. Which means we don't want to harm the planet. And then I go about making handbags, which my which put PPC in them. And then essentially I'm harming both the planet. And essentially, there is no point in saying that because then I'm not being true to myself. If you care about the animals and you care about the planet, then it's like a circle. It's like the circle of life, which is technically what Levante also stands for. I mean, the three pillars. We are very, very clear on our view Vegan, because we believe no animal needs to be killed in the name of fashion. We're ethical because we believe that our workers have the right to correct wages as a great working conditions. And we are sustainable because we believe we all have a responsibility to reduce the amount of waste in the world. So that's what our pillars are. So I'm coming back to your question. It took us two years to get the process of the right fabrics because now we use a bunch of vegetable leather, we use apple leather, we use premium. The other recycled materials are premium Bluestar, Vegan leather. So we have a couple of combinations.

 

[00:12:37] And the second part of your question was what? Remind me again, Patricia.

 

[00:12:44] It was just that. It was when. How is it different as Europe as it would have been before in Europe?

 

[00:12:52] Yeah. So basically, we took really classic styles which everyday women can take to the office and be proud to wear. And that's where we took Solomont. They makes a lot of classic fashion. So it's something you can wear on a regular day to work. You get married in the evening when you go out. We tend to do, you know, similar cuts.

 

[00:13:14] But with beautiful Hardway, our our devil is in the detail. We pay a lot of attention to the hardware. Everything is custom made for us. And that's really what the lavonne, the woman and the Levante bag is. It's plastic. It's beautiful. It's sustainable. The insides are made from recycled plastic bottles. We put a little empowerment messages inside which are sustainability related in our women. Empower empowerment related because I think these women have a tough enough.

 

[00:13:41] We need some, you know, really. Go, go, go. Kind of our empowerment messages as well. And that all comes from me because I guess that's a part of what I stand for and what the brand stands for, really.

 

[00:13:57] And that's what I want women to enjoy. Just having these really beautiful pieces that they go into work in the office or just a regular day out.

 

[00:14:06] Absolutely. I'm interested. Stella McCartney is probably the most famous handbag designer from the UK that I see most in the United States, particularly on the West Coast where I'm currently located. And I am an avid fan of Stella. For those people who follow me on Instagram, they know that I can't I can't get enough. I think it's nearing an addiction standpoint of Stella. But I'm curious with what your data says, what is your acceptance and popularity and growth in the United States with Labonte in London?

 

[00:14:41] That's a great question, Patricia. So Stella has been doing this a lot longer than us. And I will come back to the US part of the question in my second half of my answer. So originally, I'd like to sort of talk about the UK because that's where the brand was born. And just so that, you know, we've been part of the fixing fashion bill, one which was discussed by the Fabio network, which is a think tank for the UK government to encourage the UK government to take more stands to help sustainable businesses in the United Kingdom. So I have been a part of that. And I will also tell you that, I mean, I was asked by those ladies to join that network. It was along with members of parliament, with the curator of of BNA Museum and quite a few of the fashion sustainable CEOs.

 

[00:15:34] And I was asked to that conference and that fixing fashion bill only because our handbags are more excessively priced than the other brands in the market. Because what I was also told that which I didn't realize, which with me make complete sense in retrospect, is that not everybody can afford these expensive brands. The idea is to have a larger group of people wearing sustainable cruelty free bags, but which are also accessible pricing. And that really had hit home to me because I was inadvertently really trying to do that for quite a long time. But she put it in such beautiful words and really made me feel very happy because I'd really worked really hard to make such a beautiful, you know, a really expensive, sustainable product and pretty much charge what I think is a very fair price for such a sustainable product. And I think it's very important for us. And then the second part of the question is about the popularity in the US. I think that's a great question. Be launched in America late December, twenty eighteen, January twenty nineteen. So we've only been going in the states industry for a year and a few months, given Koban ninety nine.

 

[00:16:52] I have to say the response from America has been great. We have now stockists in the States. We're going to be part of QVC next big find and we're going to be launching on QVC on our 200 million home in America. In August this year. So what I would be very happy to tell you maybe in a month or two is a very well-known brand in the States. But I would like to say. But just a month away.

 

[00:17:19] Yeah, I know a lot of designers kind of it's up there on their Everest. You know, it's Europe has like this great ability to share in film and information about designers.

 

[00:17:29] All of my girlfriends in Dublin are aware of the latest Greek designer or Italian designers. But finally, you know, kind of permeating the United States is is it tends to change people's growth factors a great deal just for the sheer scale of people. I like the idea that you kind of attach and not kind of directly attach sustainability and accountability, environmentalism with your brand. And so, you know, an individual carrying one of your handbags is certainly attached to your brand and to those ideals. Do you find it difficult to make that connection or do you feel like when someone hits your website and experiences what it is and realizes that it's a Vegan handbag made with recycled plastic, plastic lining and things of that nature that it's already implied? Or do you spend a great deal of time educating people to those facts?

 

[00:18:21] I think that's a great question. We hope that our Web site does educate our customers because our customers do appreciate and know that they are buying into a sustainable Reagen product. Now, the only part that we think we need to do a better job of is to bring in the people who are not Vegan minded but are sustainable minded as well, because they need to understand that there is a core relation and we hit all the sweet spot. So that's one point, which I think is something that we've really been trying to tackle as to how we can communicate that better.

 

[00:18:54] Yeah, absolutely. That's a. A key connection, too. And I like that you guys are doing it. I'm wondering about growth, about future growth. Surely you have a one to three year plan and surely over the past four months that one to three, your plan has changed with the dial up covered 19 pandemic.

 

[00:19:12] It sounds like QVC to hit. That is going to be an incredible marker of change. But do you have other things on your horizon? Do you have more products that you're designing, things of that nature for the next one to three years?

 

[00:19:25] Absolutely, Patricia. I'm glad you asked me that.

 

[00:19:28] So 19 has obviously made a huge impact on all the retailers business plans. But we still what we are doing is that we have not we're not slowing down, but we're very now strategically placing our products so that we're introducing new collection, slow and steady, much slower than what we would have done without the Koven 19. So that's been a way of just, you know, still getting feeling the market, making sure that we're still on the right fit. But the good news is because our products are affordable, customers are still coming back to us. And that's what's great, especially now that the economies are opening back up. But yes, we're introducing our apple leather collection for fall this year, which is going to be made, which is made from apple core and apple skin, apple waste. And it's completely biodegradable. We're also introducing men's laptop bags. So we're trying to improve the product categories. And a lot of men shop on our Web sites for their or for their better halves. And we think it's a great way to get them into that opportunity to buy sustainable as well. And of very soon, we're going to be looking at introducing leather jackets and then gradually drawing this. Absolutely.

 

[00:20:40] Yeah. I've wondered how long a line the line apparel would come because you've got your hands so deeply entrenched in these, you know, alternative leathers that have been brilliant in coming out over the past five years. I'm curious, as a designer, I know that you probably keep, you know, your ear to the line as to trends and things like that. Do you think that some of the more major and luxurious brands will start coming out with Vegan alternatives to their bags, or do you think they'll still just hold that old guard? I don't know of anyone who thinks that wearing leather or buying a leather handbag is sustainable or friendly anymore. You know, I think people do it for ideas of durability and all of these old guard arguments. But I'm wondering if you think that some of the traditional brands will start to kind of bow down to the idea of sustainability and Vegan alternatives.

 

[00:21:30] I think, Patricia, some of the older I would say, what's the right word, old luxury old luxury brands like maybe Louis Vuitton would not do it. But I think I've already seen in Macy's, Calvin Klein do it and they write the Vegan option.

 

[00:21:48] But it's very interesting because buyers because we're stocked in stores now and buyers have given me feedback, is that they don't know if a brand, which is generically a leather brand, actually understands the nuances of producing a Vegan bag and a sustainable bag. So they will probably call something Vegan just because they do not use animal skin on the outer element. But there is a lot of nuances which go into Vegan bag, including having Vegan free glue, animal cruelty free glue into the eyes of reinforcements. We check every single part of that item, which every small Hotan and small hardware like a nail in the bottom of the bag. We know where it's coming from and what's gone in it. Let me put it that way. So that level of detail is not something every brand can do. So, yes, you can go ahead and buy this Vegan bag from this generic leather brand, but you generally don't know what you're getting. At least I know it works as a brand.

 

[00:22:49] And if you put that in perspective, which is a purely Vegan sustainable brand, because then you know that the PWI Vegan, they've got all these certifications there. We sort of signed documents that none of our products are going to contain any animal animal products.

 

[00:23:06] So with your sustainability activism, do you get into that playing into the manufacturing arm as well with Levante London, where are you manufacturing and how do you kind of safeguard some of those practices?

 

[00:23:21] I think on the sustainability element, what we do is we actually know where our suppliers are getting the fabrics from and we have all of that certified. We've gone and pretty much landed up at headquarters and said, OK, this is what we need, this level of certification. So that's the level of detail that has gone into it. So absolutely, when you say that is the sustainability part sort of featured into your production process, a lot of that has been so everything comes from a nominated supplier. So, for example, when a factory is manufacturing, they cannot actually just get one of our fabrics or anything from any supplier, from anything which looks similar. They actually have to show us invoices of that. It's come from our database of suppliers. So everything is is really detailed, that level.

 

[00:24:10] That's wonderful. Are there conventions or any opportunities for you to get together with other Vegan or vegetarian lines based out of the UK or in Europe, the United Kingdom?

 

[00:24:21] It kind of reaches our borders where you can kind of caucus with these individuals and share ideas and incentives and things of that nature. Is that kind of in the distant future?

 

[00:24:30] I think that's actually even the very near future. And that's something which actually I don't know how you got this insight information. But we're actually looking at doing that quite quickly because as the need for sustainable cruelty free brands grows, it makes sense to start getting everybody have a dialog, come together and show ourselves as one enough unified front where a lot of consumers can have an auction and understand that this is this is regulated. This is you know, this is a common platform where like minded brands and like minded brands are available. So this is something it's actually a work in progress and it's something we're looking to rule out relatively quickly.

 

[00:25:09] That's exciting. I can't wait to hear. I think great things come when people share information and best. Absolutely.

 

[00:25:16] You know, and I think that the old days of the competition scaring those things, those kinds of practices offer gone. So I looked at the collaboration of minds and things that come from it. Well, you know, we are out of time. Vanita. But I want to say thank you so much for giving us your time today and talking with us about Libonati, London. Your line. I think the product is beautiful and exquisite. I encourage everyone to get on and have a look at it. The hardware and things, I haven't seen them in person, but I can imagine when people, you know, kind of tell it something about their products. I find it to be true because otherwise everyone's going to discover otherwise. And I really do appreciate you coming on and enumerating all of these different areas and details about what it is to have like this Vegan product handbag line.

 

[00:26:00] Thank you so much for your show, for having me, it's been such a pleasure.

 

[00:26:03] Absolutely. And for everyone listening. I have been speaking with Vanita Badlani. She is an activist, entrepreneur, CEO and founder of Labonte, a London.

 

[00:26:12] You can find her products and more information about her brand and her philosophy on Labonte dot com. That is L.A. b a n t e dot com.

 

[00:26:21] Until we speak again next time. Thank you for giving me your time. Remember to stay safe, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

 

Speaking with Jane Elizabeth; Best Selling Author, Personal Trainer, Coach, & Athlete

Today I am speaking with Jane Elizabeth. Jane is a best selling author, personal trainer, empowerment coach, motivational speaker, athlete, and animal lover who has been active in the animal rescue community for over a decade. She went vegan for the animals two and a half years ago and has been an active advocate for veganism ever since.

 

Key points addressed were  

• Jane’s book titled become a badass rebel runner 
• We also discussed Jane’s personal journey from being obese to health and a vegan lifestyle as a long-distance runner, mother of a toddler, and coach

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with bestselling author, personal trainer, coach and Vegan athlete Jane Elizabeth. Key Points addressed where Jane's book titled Become a Bad Ass Rebel Runner. We also discussed Jane's personal journey from being obese to health and a Vegan lifestyle as a long distance runner, mother of a toddler and coach. Stay tuned for my inspirational talk with Jane Elizabeth. A quick technical note. We suffered some audio difficulties on our hosting end of Zoom. However, as the less than ideal audio is only suffered on the part of my questions and this portion of the podcast, DANZ is 25 percent of the interview. Our team made the decision to go up with this version rather than delay and rerecord. We appreciate your understanding and know that the interview with Jane will be worth putting up with a little static.

 

[00:00:56] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen, dot com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:52] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Jane Elizabeth. Jane is a best author, personal trainer, coach and Vegan athlete. You can find out more about her work and get in contact with her on her Instagram handles. She has two. One is at bad ass dot rebel letters. And the next one is C Dot. Jane, Dot, do dot everything. Welcome, Jane.

 

[00:02:21] Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

 

[00:02:23] Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of comb through your book. I read that last night I was talking to you before we started recording. I really love it. I think you have some core tenants that equal to that. I don't hear a lot of women athletes were begins in general speak about. And I'm really excited to kind of enumerate those with you before I do that for anyone listening who has been following this podcast. I always offer our listeners and Volquez viewers a roadmap of where we're headed today. And we will be looking at Jane's academic background and early professional life. But and then we'll turn straight to unpacking her Vegan story if it hasn't been already enumerated within her background of academic and professional level. And then we'll turn towards unpacking her book, which I'm excited to talk about, is called Become a Badass Rebel Runner The Ultimate Guide to Being a Fit Mom Without the Diet Bullshit. And I'm excited to climb through a lot. As I said, those core components that I feel like really differentiate, Jane, from a lot of the leading athletes that I've spoken to. And then we'll turn towards the ethos and what she was hoping, the ethos of the book and what she was hoping her readership would kind of garner and gain from, as well as the audience that she had in mind when she was writing it. And we'll wrap everything up with that. Looking at the future and the goals that Jane may have within it's one, two years, this is a conversation that people has changed a great deal for those of us in the world as of late with the public pandemic upon us really quickly. As promised before I'd start peppering Jane with questions of bio. Jane Elizabeth is a bestselling author, personal trainer, empowerment coach, motivational speaker, athlete and animal lover who has been active in the animal rescue community for over a decade. She went vegan for the animals two and a half years ago and has become an active advocate for veganism ever since. Although she originally went vegan for the animals, Gene discovered the health benefits and the vast environmental benefits of building begin to be incredible. Using her own transformation story as a platform of hope, she inspires others to take care of the animals and the planet by taking care of themselves. Her Vegan fitness mobile app, Batak Rebel Runners, has empowered hundreds of people to get fit and healthy. Her book become a badass Bevell runner and the ultimate guide to being a fit mom. Without the Diet, Bullshit shares her personal journey and is available now on Amazon. She believes strongly in being a voice for the voiceless and standing up for what is right, even if it means standing alone. And so and I do also I neglected to mention I want you to kind of put across through your app. I have read the book. I have not gotten on the apps side. Have you kind of just pull that out? All of us. Before we get to all of that, I'm hoping that you can kind of draw us this platform of your early academic and professional background that led you to where you are now.

 

[00:05:07] Sure. Well, thanks so much for that question. It's really interesting because, you know, from an academic standpoint, actually started in music. That was my first love. That was my first year. I drove into that thinking, you know, this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. I went to a trade school that was focused on the performing arts. So it was called music tech. And then it changed to McNelly Smith. And unfortunately, it doesn't even exist anymore. Back in Minneapolis, Minnesota. So I did that. I had a rock band for about 13 years. And that was a lot of fun, a lot of fun times with that. And all that time, I had to work, too, because, you know, when you're in a rock band, that's not something typically that is going to pay the bills. So I was in sales and management, which actually led me down a different path professionally than I thought I was going to to go down. So I hadn't intended on getting into the realm of corporate America. But that's what happened. And so, you know, getting into management and seeing the result of really mentoring people and figuring out or helping them really figure out what they wanted to do with their professional careers became a passion of mine, too. And so actually, in my thirties, after getting into human resources or from sales management to human resource, it seemed like a natural progression from a professional standpoint. And what I was doing that I thought, well, this is probably what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. So I actually went back to school in my early thirties and I, I got my undergraduate degree and my graduate degrees, both with human resource management thinking, you know, if I can help people and mentor them. And actually help them figure out what it is they really want to do with their lives, help them feel fulfilled from a professional standpoint, that will help them then in their personal lives, too. So it is really, you know, trying to also help corporations find that that win win, that's good for the company, good for employees, good for management. And, you know, being in human resources, you see kind of the underbelly of organizations.

 

[00:07:19] You see people at their very worst. And, you know, people come to you with all their crap. I mean, people, you know, are hurting. They're frustrated. They're angry. You very rarely get to see people on their best days. So kind of being that voice of, you know, it's OK. You know, let's figure this out. There's a solution here.

 

[00:07:41] You know, tell me how you're feeling. Tell me what you're thinking. Tell me your perspective. And taking that in as not right or wrong, but your perspective is your perspective. And giving people that space to actually just be heard was something that became second nature. And I think that's actually helped me in where I am now. But what happened is I actually got pregnant on purpose. I was always wanted kids. And I got pregnant with my daughter. And at that time, I was in grad school and I was working full time in human resources. So it was a bit of a struggle, you know, like waddling around downtown Minneapolis, going to work and, you know, going to school and all these things. And, you know, when you're pregnant, you're exhausted all the time. And I had this funny thought in my head. I remember thinking they're doing my my papers for preschool and handing them in and being so exhausted and thinking, gosh, you know, when she's born, I'll probably have more energy. But anybody who's out there who is a parent knows that that is so not true. Less than I do. And she was worried because I didn't get any sleep, but I managed to push through. So I finished grad school when I was on maternity leave and I had my my newborn daughter who didn't want to be held by anybody else but me. And she is a breastfed babies. So, you know, I was her only source of nutrients. She wouldn't take a bottle like it was just me. But I finished grad school anyway, and I just said, this is something that I need to do. And part of it honestly was showing her that she's capable of doing this. You as a mom, I think a lot of people, a lot of women feel like they can't go to school, they can't work. There's so many things they can't do because their mom is doing all these other things is selfish. But I wanted to show her that it's not that you can live this full, fulfilling life in so many aspects and be an amazing mom. So that's really, you know, what kind of my background from an academic standpoint, once I finished grad school, that's actually kind of when my life completely changed because I realized everything I had been doing and all these goals I have from a professional standpoint, they were good.

 

[00:10:04] They were all really great goals, but they weren't really aligned with what I wanted to see from my life. And so I had this little, like mini celebration, took some pictures finishing grad school. Big deal, right. I was super, super excited to to be done, quite honestly. I mean, I was I love school, but at that point, I was so exhausted. I was really happy to be done with it. To be able to move out and have a little bit of time at least to do something other than writing papers. So I was looking at these pictures and I was holding my daughter. And, you know, looking back at these pictures, you know, when you're in that moment, you don't think about looking down at yourself. You don't think about looking at your at your body. I had been avoiding mirrors at that point for, well, quite a while, honestly. I already knew what I was going to see in the mirror, so I just didn't even want to go there. And when I looked at these pictures, it was right there staring me in the face like I didn't even recognize this woman holding my daughter.

 

[00:11:07] And the woman was me. And that was that moment I fired. Holy crap.

 

[00:11:12] How did I get to this point? You know, I was so busy doing all of these things for so many years. And I had let myself go. I wasn't focusing on my health. I wasn't focusing on anything other than the busyness that had come along with everything I was doing. And I had a lot of emotional trauma and suffered several losses.

 

[00:11:36] And there was a lot that was a lot that really played into that. And what I saw in those pictures was this person, this woman who was hurting so much, just completely helpless. And all of the emotional things I had gone through were manifesting in how big I was.

 

[00:11:56] I mean, I went from having like five, 10 extra pounds to being obese. And that was the moment I thought, oh, my God, I need to do something about this. Because I was holding my daughter and I kept thinking, you know, all of these limiting beliefs and unhealthy behaviors. This is something that if I continue going the way I'm going, I'm going to pass it on to her just like they've been passed on to me. So I could do that or I could stop that cycle. I could be the last person in my family to live my life that way and give her a clean slate. And that meant that I had to completely change my life. But she's my daughter. She's totally worth it. And that's what I found my wife to completely change my life.

 

[00:12:47] Yeah. Your book, you can hear why and talk about your daughter being your why.

 

[00:12:51] And then. And it does a good job of kind of mixing and matching the time here of what you're talking about. I'm curious how the relationship and the conversation between exercise and the Vegan diet, you kind of climb through, you pass out when meat left your diet and then, you know, we have an identical experience nursing your daughter, you know, that immediately turning you off the milk. And then you also kind of unpack later on how the extraction of milk enables you to start your exercise. But I'm hoping you can kind of make sense of that being a Vegan athlete yourself and being this pro distance runner that you are. You a lot of people here are Vegan. And this is running is about the last thing that weightlifting did. They're like, no, Vegan don't do that. I love talking to people who do it that way. And I'm wondering if you can kind of form the relationship between becoming Vegan as well as your weight loss journey like they didn't come spontaneously or did they kind of did, because, you know, what I did is I was looking at my life and what needed to change.

 

[00:13:55] And, you know, eating meat never resonated well with me because I love animals. So I've been involved in animal rescue for a really long time.

 

[00:14:03] And I've rescue dogs. We fostered dogs. I mean, this is something I mean, I love cats, too, but I'm allergic, so I could never foster them. But they are really cute and they love me, especially, I think, because I'm allergic. They like to crawl up, man, get lost and hurt, which is fine. I just make sure I, you know, shower right after.

 

[00:14:20] But, you know, we had, you know, animals like cows and pigs and turkeys come into rescue as well. And these are animals that are typically killed for food. And their personalities were the same as my dogs. And I couldn't help but thinking, you know, why are we rescuing these animals? But, you know, killing these animals? I mean, obviously, the ones who came to rescue those were safe. But, you know, my my point is, you know, these farmed animals are the exact same as the ones are coming into rescue. So we're saving some and then paying to have some meat kill the other ones. And it just didn't sit right with me. It didn't resonate with my spirit. So I just thought, you know what, I have to change this because this isn't right. It's it's been bothering me for a long time. There's gotta be another way. And I mean, I was raised in a very I mean, almost a.. Vegan household, as I mean, most people were. And, you know, back in that day when I'm going to 80s, baby and, you know, meat was where you got your protein. And if you want to if you wanted to be strong, you eat eggs, which I never actually really liked eggs. But if you wanted strong bones, you know, you drink a lot of milk and. But, you know, cutting that meat out was like that first thing and it felt so right to do that. And then, you know, from there, that was the what I was planning to do would just, you know, for the well-being of the animals. It wasn't really about me. It was about them. And I just wanted to do something to reduce the suffering I was causing because, you know, I've got I feel like I have a lot karmically to make up for. I mean, so many years of harm that I caused. Not really even realizing it was harm, because we're not taught that it's harm. But it's like once you know better, it's your responsibility. It's my responsibility because I know better to do better with my actions and to show my daughter. What this means, you know, we're saying cruelty free. That doesn't just mean the products you buy from a cosmetic standpoint, it doesn't just mean what you're using in your household. A cruelty for your life also means not eating animals and causing the least amount of harm possible and not wearing animals, not exploiting animals. So, you know, so that was a big turning point for me. And what happened from there is right at that same time, you're right after I made that decision that I had to change my life. I decided to go Vegan and. But then there was this moment of, gosh, you know, I don't know, dairy. I gave up cheese like that was okay. There are a lot of substitutes out there. And, you know, that was fine. But that half and half was really difficult to to give up. So I had started trying to run. I mean, this was like me trotting along. This is jogging, really. I mean, this was like three days a week. This was not even a mile. I suffered from chronic asthma. And so, you know, I was trying, though I knew running would work. It's that one thing I knew would help me get fit. And, you know, people always think, well, what is it I can do? You know, and there are so many things that don't require equipment and running is one of them. Walking is not is another one. You know, they're really great ways to exercise that. You're, you know, how to do it. And so, you know, I was I felt really heavy. My knees were were hurting, but I knew I had to keep going. But I always need to my rescue inhaler before I would even start because my asthma was that bad, that I had to actually kind of give my lungs a little boost in order to open up enough for me to actually run that not even one mile that I was going to run that day. But once. Yeah. I was nursing my daughter, like you said. You know, a lot of moms, I think, have this this revelation when they are nursing moms. And if you are in tune at all to what animals go through and I was nursing her and I saw this this video at that time, I only had half and half left to give up. That was the only thing I thought. Well, it's it's one thing. It's only one thing. No big deal. Right. Because it's just one thing. But yeah, I saw this video. It popped up. And, you know, Facebook I really I'm not a fan typically of Facebook algorithm's. You know, they totally screw with businesses and like, you have to pay if you want anybody to see anything. So I I'm not a huge fan. But in that moment, I can tell you that Facebook knew exactly what I needed to see. So I'm so grateful for that one moment because that's what I needed to see to change that one thing. And it was this video of a mammoth cow who is chasing her baby who had been stolen away from her. And I'm nursing my daughter. And I just broke down. I started crying like, OK, I said, I don't care what I have to do to give up. This happened half. It's done. I poured it down the drain. I was. That was it. I didn't care if I had to try a thousand different Vegan Kramers, which I probably did, you know, that was it for me. And then so that that was about the animals too. But then within about a week my asthma just completely reversed. It went away. So, you know, yes, it was still a struggle to run because I had an extra 80 plus pounds on me, but I was that I could breathe when I was running. And that feeling of that, that almost liberation, being able to have my lungs be clear while I was running with something I had never experienced before. And I've been an athlete, you know, in grade school and high school, I played sports and I always had a stop kind of like mid game to take a puff of my rescue inhaler, you know, is made fun of as a kid for being an asthmatic, which is also really crappy for kids to do. But it's what happens sometimes with when you're in school. And but that feeling of just. Oh, my gosh. I can do this. I can actually run. So that allow me to run further. So I could go for a longer amount of time. And then it was four more, you know, four more days during that during the week. I could run. And it started being this this thing I could do. And as a weight dropped off and because I could actually breathe with clear lungs without asthma, I could just keep going. And I appreciate that so much because, you know, as an asthmatic, you know, I would always be limited by something I couldn't control. But now, because I was able to go fully Vegan because of that one video, I saw that give up that last bit of dairy. All of a sudden, boom, it was done. And I could actually feel myself becoming stronger as an athlete. And, you know, and it took a while for me to get to where I am now. I mean, that was that's practice. That's work that's actually putting in, you know, grinding, putting in that work every day. But it all was sparked by finally giving up dairy.

 

[00:21:27] And also what's interesting about that is I had gone to begin for the animals. So that wasn't negotiable. I mean, I'm never going back to any animal products. But when my asthma went away, I was like, there's got to be more to this. This is researching veganism for my health benefit standpoint. And so. Yeah. And then I started getting more into, like, whole food plant based because it's so incredibly healthy for your body. And I mean that just everything kind of took off from there because I found just this wealth of information about how, you know, going vegan and particularly eating mostly wholefood plant based is so incredibly impactful for people from a health standpoint. And I just remember thinking, where the hell has this information been my entire life? It's like this is where where were they hiding this? I mean, you know, you've got people who are dying of diseases that are, you know, by and large preventable by getting rid of cruelty, by getting rid of animal products. So that was something that was shocking to me. Absolutely shocking. So now I really even though I went Vegan for the animals, I like to use my platform to tell people about the health benefits as well, because, quite frankly, a lot of people are drawn in for that reason and then makes a connection to the animals down the road, which is fine.

 

[00:22:52] Absolutely. What a curious case. When you said you're asthmatic, you know, in the book and I agree and I thought, oh, this is kind of clean.

 

[00:22:57] Right. Or one of the most common things I've heard when it comes to disease of any sort with them. People who turned to a vegan lifestyle, either by knowing or being suggested that we interview will help or by accident is that things clear up allergies, as mothers can do immediately. They don't just go a little bit away. They completely eliminate chronic migraines, all sorts of things that, you know, these things that really impact all of your life. And I was curious when that happened with you and because you are kind of a community based spirit, you kind of hear it throughout different threads of your book. Did you ever have a coach or a mentor throughout your 18 months? Because in your book, you kind of lay out and talk about a solid 18 months from what you remember being your heaviest to your true fitness and and wondering, did you ever have a mentor or anyone that you leaned on or Vegan group that you identified with? Or was it all just you?

 

[00:23:53] Yeah, that's a really great question. It was all just me. So I actually, you know, what's interesting is that kind of leads to why I do what I do. So, yeah, I took, what, 18 months? I was over 80 pounds and went from not being able to run a mile. So now I run between like seven and 20 plus miles a day just because I love to. And now that I can do it, I appreciate having that ability, which is so different from a lot of people who do it because, you know, maybe they feel like they have to or it's a punishment or whatever. Look at, you know, as far as exercise is concerned. But for me, it's this thing that I couldn't do before. And so now I'm so grateful just to be able to physically do it. So it's like every time I run, it's this time to distress and unwind and gain clarity and work through anything I'm going through. But during that 18 months, it was pretty lonely because, you know, in the Vegan community at that time in Minneapolis, there aren't a whole lot of vegans. And I did that finding a couple different Vegan groups, but they weren't really into fitness. It was something where if you even talked about the health benefits, they're like, well, you're not really Vegan if you are doing it for health reasons. I'm like, no, I did it for the animals. But I'm also very interested in the health and fitness. But you're kind of shame, you know, by the people who are, you know, ethical vegans, which I am. But I'm so shamed by people who think, oh, no, it's selfish to do it for health reasons. Well, OK, but. That's also a part of being Vegan is that it is a healthy, all of a healthier alternative, even if people are junk food Meagan's, it's still healthier than being a junk food omnivore. So, I mean, this is something that know people shouldn't be ashamed to talk about.

 

[00:25:36] But I didn't have this integrated with draconian measures. Let's be clear. Yes. You know, enforced compassion and things like the large part of the Vegan theory is based on with like a weikel.

 

[00:25:49] That doesn't make any sense. The love one another for the motives. Things like that seems a bit oxymoronic.

 

[00:25:56] It does. It does. And that was I kind of pulled back, honestly, from the Vegan community for a while just because I knew I was doing it for the right reason. And honestly, there's no wrong reason to go Vegan. The animals don't care why you go Vegan they just want you to stop eating them. So it's like I don't care whether people do it from a health standpoint, for the environment, for the animals, just, you know, the animal just wants you to stop eating them, exploiting them and wearing them. Right? Yeah. So. So I celebrate anybody along their journey and whatever people's dreams look like. But as far as having a mentor, I couldn't really find anybody who spoke to me whose story resonated with me because you as a mom, she's my number one priority. There are a lot of Vegan fitness trainers that are more into, you know, like body building. But that's not what I wanted. I wanted to run. I wanted to be an endurance athlete and I wanted to get fit and healthy and have like long lean muscle, but not build bulkier muscle. I mean, it's a beautiful esthetic and I have a lot of friends who do it. And I'm not saying it's wrong. It's amazing. It's just not my thing. So I can find anybody that was really, you know, speaking my language in a fitness center from a fitness standpoint. So I really figured it out on my own. And I'm assuming so that's kind of one of the reasons, too, why. You know, once I went through this journey, I thought, oh, my God, there are probably a lot of other people who feel exactly like I felt they're doing this brand new thing that's breaking tradition from everything they've known. And they're probably feeling really isolated and lonely and unsupported by people who should who should show support. But I mean, in a sense, then my I have a lot of friends in the Vegan community who are super supportive. I have a huge support group now from, you know, friends and followers and things like that. But, you know, a lot of that has just stemmed from, honestly, my place of saying, you know what? I'm going to do my thing. I'm going to be authentic to who I am. And if people are attracted to that, great. If they're not, that's fine, too, because I am not going to be for everybody. And that's OK. Yeah, I know what that taught me when I got a sense of that.

 

[00:28:19] We were talking off the record. And I think you do address a couple of values that you hear from Vegan offers and prep because they don't cross wires as much as you do on how you get into your personal, your health. All of it plays, you know, you as a package with this book. But I was telling you in Chapter seven and eight, when I was kind of climbing through those, you have a lot of conversation about show in the early part of this book. You talk about the the onus of responsibility to your daughter. And then you kind of you kind of explain that further. In Chapter seven, you talk about relationships and how we adopt these from, you know, people before us and how we look at those things. And then we hand them off subconsciously to the next generation. This unhealthy relationship with food being candy, particularly as you know, as women. And then also you talk about the social influences over diet and mind bodies. You get into limiting beliefs and mental handicaps, reverting self sabotage and things like that that also, I think, play into like, you know, illustrating quietly in this kind of subconscious way to the next generation. You can kind of understand how you came to that and how you came to talking about it, because it is one of the first big injuries. People always say it's Vegan. I really reexamine I have a very different relationship with them, but they can't stop there. They never kind of go into and that's that's a very blanket statement that if you haven't lived it, you may not even know what that means. And you have to do a good job of unpacking that sentiment. This idea of my, you know, food being the enemy, self sabotage and how it was handed quietly to you, you were getting ready to quietly handed on to your daughter before you became aware of it. How did you come to know those things and how did you come to write about them as being part of your Vegan story?

 

[00:30:12] That's a really good question. And, you know, it was just this idea of realizing, you know, how I grew up. It wasn't. My parents said that the best they could with the information they had at that time, but I saw the women, particularly in my family, dieting all the time. So there was always this focus on getting skinny. It wasn't about getting fit. And the focus was there were, you know, the weight loss plan that only work right. If you stick with them and the weight loss companies are banking on you failing and coming back and then failing and coming back. And that's how they're making money. They don't really make any money off of you if you succeed. So then you've got like diet pills. You've got your shakes. You've got like the gadgets, the late night as seen on TV. You've got these really, really fit people advertising these things they probably don't use. And, you know, so all of those things, there's this mindset of food is it is the enemy. It is something that you use to reward yourself on a good day. But then on a crappy day, you dove in and you indulge and you binge and you're like, it's OK because it's a bad day. And looking at even how you create a plate of food, it was like, meat is your main course. And then everything else around it is kind of like secondary and vegetables are gross. But you have to eat them if you want dessert. I mean, that's like the mindset. I mean. And I think most people remember their parents saying if you want dessert, you gotta eat your vegetables. So it was this punishment like, OK, the punishment is that you the you know, you have to eat your vegetables. But if you can make it through that, you can have dessert. It's this terrible way of thinking about food and super unhealthy to you. Make it about, you know, if this than this in a negative way. So, you know, once I went Vegan, I it's almost like you're a rebel anyway because you're completely going against the grain with everything you've been taught about food. And so what happened is I was looking at, you know, these all of these unhealthy, you know, behaviors that were handed down to me with exercise and food. And, you know, that idea of bingeing or of limiting calories so much that you're basically starving yourself. And it's really funny. I will tell you something that there is there is a shock. Golden Girls, I mean, everybody knows the show, right? There is one particular episode. And I think there's mostly be in their 50s or something in that show. And these ladies, it was just having me on late at night and I was it was before I went Vegan. But my daughter was OK. She was always I got like two hours and she was always awake and so having me on. And I remember in this one episode, these women who are middle aged women, they had an event coming up in like a week or two weeks or something like that. So they all went on a diet to get thin before this event. And I remember this this moment thinking to myself. I do not want to be middle age and still be frickin dieting like this. This whole mindset, though, has been handed down and it's through my family, too, that it's you know, you have to starve yourself if you want to get fat. And it's about getting fat. It's not about getting fit when you exercise. Gosh, you know, if you can do the most punishing thing to your body for, like, a short amount of time, then you should see results. But if you don't see results, then you're not doing the right thing. It's not about consistency. It's about, you know, that quick fix. And if it doesn't work right now, then it's then it's the fault of the system, the product, whatever it might be, to the program. And there is a lack of personal accountability. And so looking at food and the way I want my daughter to look at food, that was huge for me. What do I want her mindset to be for food? I don't want it to be about restriction. I want it to be about abundance. So when we're when I'm looking at food, I'm looking at all of the findings that is there from a nutritional standpoint and how beautiful it is to be able to choose from all these things. You've got vegetables, fruits and grains. I mean, I haven't even tried everything that's available to me because there are so many things I'm not even aware of at this point, even though I've eaten a lot of them. I've tried so many things. But there's always something new to try. And so with her, I want her to look at food as something exciting, not something that she has to constantly restrict. And so, you know, looking at it from a healthy standpoint and saying, yeah, OK, there are these potato chips here and I'm MacIntyre's, you can't have them, because when I grew up, it was you can't have any junk food, which then made me kind of veer off. It didn't make me. I chose to veer off in that direction of, you know, fast food and junk food and all that. Yeah. But with her, it's like, OK, this is an option if you want to have that. I also have this green apple and you know, I'm going to have this you can choose. And nine times out of ten, she wants the apple because I'm not making it a negative thing like these are these chips are so bad for you. It's you know, it's your choice. How do you feel when you eat the apple versus how you eat those or how you feel when you eat those chips and having them available so she can make those good choices and healthy choices in an environment where I'm there to support her and encourage her. Then as she gets older and she's only four years old right now, but as she gets older, she's gonna be making decisions that impact her health and her life in so many ways. And so, you know, teaching her to choose something that makes her feel good. Choosing something that is cruelty free, that, you know, is Vegan and helping you kind of see that difference between a dead animal and something that is going to actually bring you so much life and so much nourishment and fueling your body. That way, when you feel good, you want to keep feeling good. Right. Is that that's been missing, I think, from the whole narrative about food and fitness for so long. But it takes a lot of effort because, you know, all of these beliefs and there's a lot of societal pressure, their social conditioning that teaches us what fitness looks like, what health looks like, what good food looks like.

 

[00:36:57] And it's this it's all shit like you could. It's horrible bullshit.

 

[00:37:01] I think in your book, there's a really good job that might kind of just setting that stage and letting your readers kind of run with it. You know, the concept that would exist in a vacuum, which would then become healthy and thin and break one day. It's a it's an incredible medicine. It's a drug. It's your grandmother's love. It's so many things as human beings to just think that you just switch it, you know, or not analyze the level I think is is one of the greatest fault for being fat is definitely pushed on me, you know, as a father, as a concept, like you said, that helps infomercial, didn't Summerside after I did so many of ridiculous things out there, then I said, why worry? She's going to look back on that, if you really like. I think that really looking at it because your book is the great job of your journey, talking about things, talking about how you implement things, but then also talking about, you know, ends with this like emotional, sociological look at having to impact the brain eventually. And I think that if that happens, whether you want it to or not, you know, if you're eating healthy and you're exercising and you're returning to a state of health, even if you thought you were insulin, you will naturally have another conversation with yourself, not unlike Kobe. You know, I think a lot there was a large part of the population that would say they were pretty fair on who they were, what they were doing, what job they rented, and that they liked it. And everyone I talked to had completed the evaluation with themselves of their new internal. Dialog about reevaluating what quality of life means to them, what family actually means, how much they should be spending time with their family and things like that. Something stripped of freedoms taken away or implemented again. We analyze and I think your book does a really good job of setting the reader up for that until I really. I was delighted to find that can attend it thinking, you know, about handing it off to the next generation. It doesn't matter if you have children or have or want them. You should care about how you depart this earth. And I think most people do and be slightly better at speaking. But I believe that better is thoughtful and that begins with how we analyze and look at food in the animals, the industries, the system. It's not just the animals. Veganism is tied up into a lot of this endeavor. It ties into everything from sustainability, responsibility, the earth to the farmers. The economy is a lie. You know, anytime you start to pay for things like milk and eggs, like our country does, to subsidize it, to make sure that we stay dependent on it, it cripples an economy that could exist in its place. So there's just so many aspects, and I love that your how your book kind of came at it from that emotional and mental one as an athlete. Let me ask you realistically, we had some people write in. We would take questions from our audience and they know we're getting Vegan athletes on the slopes of Quick Fire question. Rounds of people write and off at the same time. I get to ask a couple right now, as a Vegan athlete, do you feel like your endurance has ever suffered, particularly as a distance runner or benefited from it's benefited.

 

[00:40:08] So I have more energy and stamina now than I've ever had in my life. So one great example is the first two races I did this year.

 

[00:40:17] They're the only two races I have been able to do this year off of my whole list. I did a half marathon in January and a marathon in March and before both, I have maybe an hour of sleep just because, you know, you've got this nervous energy. I had my oatmeal. What's fruit and cinnamon like I always have in the morning and some water and coffee and went out both times and ran without stopping. Both races finish strong. And that is something I never could have done without going Vegan. So it's. Well, because what you do with asthma, too, there's no way to pluck it that mile anyway. But but now definitely my stamina, my endurance has increased. And I've learned also how to fuel my body, you know, so that what I'm eating is actually energizing me for my for each one. So that's something that I've learned to do as well.

 

[00:41:10] And we had a lot of people write and ask if you've ever had a conversation with your doctor and M.D. of you and any doctor about being Vegan and what he was.

 

[00:41:20] Yes, actually, last year I broke my foot. I was walking down the stair, holding my walking down the stairs, holding my daughter.

 

[00:41:27] And my dogs kind of swirled around my feet and I fell, managed to, like, fall backwards. And so my daughter wasn't injured Jews in my arms because she was my. But one thing I could think about in that moment. So I ended up breaking my left foot and I had like had my way into the doctor and they noticed the significant weight change from where I was before. And it was like over 80 pounds, like eighty five pounds or something like that. And they just kind of looked at me and I said, I'm a I'm a long distance runner and I'm Vegan. And they're like, oh. And they said, you know, you haven't been in for an asthma check recently. And I said, Oh, I know. You know what, I I'm I can tell you it's cured because you have to be very, very careful using that term. I said, but I haven't had any flare ups since I went Vegan. And I run every single day and the doctor looked at me. They did an asthma attack and they took it off my chart. So by an actual doctor, it was taken off of my chart. And I say that because a lot of people had that question. Did an actual doctor as a fair like a doctor? I mean, I don't even know why he will say that. But yes, an actual doctor at a clinic took asthma off my chart.

 

[00:42:41] So that was critical, like what we're experiencing. I don't know why we need it validated by him. Like it's always easing for me. Would you feel like what did the doctor say? I don't know if you're feeling pretty good. I hope they agreed. And then we also have one of the last questions that kind of breakthrough through is people asked if the baby's parents have received budget from other parents or if you at your daughter's pretty young. But if you convey that information and if we have any of our people interested, are they judgmental? How is that kind of weighing on the.

 

[00:43:14] I've had both I mean, I've had a lot of people, Judge Mantle, from you know, from my growing up like, you know, friends and family. And, you know, I can't believe you would deprive your daughter of meat and dairy.

 

[00:43:27] And I'm like, well, I can't believe you feed your child death and illness. So, you know, I'd rather feed my child the food that is going to give her life, make her feel good. I don't actually see it that way because I'm much more compassionate when I'm speaking to people.

 

[00:43:45] But I have had a lot of judgment. And, you know, I always try to remember that I wasn't always Vegan. So, you know, when people ask me questions or they come at me with an aggressive manner, I just say, you know what?

 

[00:44:01] I was in your shoes before. I understand that. It's really scary to think that there's this possibility that the way we've always done things isn't the correct way to do things. It isn't the healthiest way, the kindest way and the most compassionate way. And that's really scary. Do you have questions for me or what questions can I answer for you about the way I'm living my life? Because that sometimes will open the door, even though they came at me in an aggressive manner sometimes. Yeah, that'll be any on some people, though, don't want to have any conversations. And people have been ridiculously judgmental. And if they don't want to actually have a conversation and they're just going to come at me with no judgment about my parenting style or about me or whatever it is, those are people I don't need in my circle. And I will I've learned to set boundaries so that the truly toxic people will not ever infiltrate this. You know, Joy, I have this healthy lifestyle. I've learned how to eliminate those people from my life. So, yeah, and guess what? Those people the door's open. If they actually want to have a conversation, that's totally fine. That's cool. I'm here. But if they're going to continue to be toxic and documental, then I don't have time for it. And with other people, you know, with Vegan parents or people who are really curious about having Vegan children, when you're doing the right thing for your child's health and wellbeing, that should matter to you so much more than anybody else's opinion. You know, if there's something that comes up, let's say you do go to the doctor and maybe your child is deficient in something that can happen, whether you have, you know, meat and dairy in your diet or whether you are Vegan. I mean, there are times when as kids, like my daughter is four, they're really picky eaters. So, you know, there are gonna be times when maybe you do have to adjust things a little bit or like add a multivitamin or something like that. So that might be something that, you know, you want to talk to a plant based nutritionist about.

 

[00:46:01] It's okay. It's OK to not have it all figured out. But just knowing that you're doing what's right for your child and for you and for the animals in the environment that matters more than anybody else's opinion anyway.

 

[00:46:15] Absolutely. And, you know, it's a personal testimony. I don't know a lot of Vegan, if they're quite young that haven't had an incredible health turnaround. You know, when I became vegan, I was incredibly healthy and I just went to see if I shouldn't sleep. When I started being able to it was, you know, just being a little teachers of good day, regardless of how healthy. I just don't know anyone who became healthy way on like this whole basis, you know, that doesn't have some kind of wonderful story that they should want for their children. And think, before I let you go, I want you to unpack your the bad ass rebel runners. He helps a little bit about what it is.

 

[00:46:55] Yes. So, you know, along the fitness journey on my fitness journey, like we're talking about before, I didn't have a lot of support. So what I wanted to do actually went back to school and became a certified personal trainer and life coach. And so that's something I do. And I felt like, you know, even though I just finished grad school before I started, my journey is like, you know what, though? This is what I'm supposed to do. And so I finally found my purpose and I created this app because this is what worked for me, kind of struggling through all these roadblocks and finding my way, finding my journey and creating a healthy lifestyle, going from just eating anything that was Vegan like Vegan izing anything and everything, using meat substitutes and two substitutes and then eventually going wholefood plant based. And don't get me wrong, like I still will treat myself and indulge in something really deliciously, you know, Vegan that's super indulgent sometimes. So I want to make sure I say that because there is such thing as going too far one way. And I do balance. I do believe in having balance. Gotta have Vegan Lozano's every now and again. Right. Reagen Kates or something.

 

[00:48:02] But so I created this app so that people would have something like one thing they could look at. That would teach them what they need to do on a daily basis as daily work. It has Vegan meal plans, but they don't look like other meal plans because you do have things like pizza and lasagna. And then you do have other things are hopeful, plant based. So people choose their breakfast, their lunch and their dinner and then they portion it out for the week because this is about portion control instead of counting calories, because for a lot of people who are raised like I was, calorie counting is extremely triggering and can go so wrong because people are freaking out. If they have like, oh my gosh, I had an extra 100 calories that I wasn't supposed to have or, you know, they get to the end of the day and they're starving. So you should never feel like you are so restricted that you're light headed or, you know, you're having trouble focusing. I mean, these are things people do in order to lose weight. And I want people to know that there is a healthy way to do things. It's not about being so restricted. It's about balance, portion control, making sure you're satisfied with what you're eating.

 

[00:49:18] So that as all of those things included in it and it is a running app, but for people who don't want to run, it's OK. You can walk. And it's something. It's what worked for me. So there's the beginners intermediate and advanced levels for people who do want to progress and maybe become a distance runner. So it is pretty specific. That's why. Bad usera wheel runners. For anybody who is veg curious or Vegan and they want to get themselves in shape. They want to get healthy their support. Right. In that app. So I come on in beginning the week at the end of the week to tell them what to expect of beginning and then to congratulate people at the end of the week, get moved into the next week. And it's just it's something I wish I would have had. And that's one thing I really tried to do. Now, with anything I'm doing on social media or anywhere else in my life is I really try to be that person. I wish I would have had on my journey. So other people are just going Vegan whether they're just starting their fitness, Sturdee, whatever kind of progress they're making. I like to encourage them and support them and celebrate them and just be there because I think we don't need anymore people really saying, like, this is exactly what you need to do. And if you don't do it my way, it's not good enough. Instead, we need people who are uplifting and encouraging and supportive. And so that's what I try to be. That's what I try to do for people.

 

[00:50:44] Yeah, it's great. And I can answer to when I asked you earlier, if you had a mentor, someone who became the mentor you needed, would you kind of fill up that if you haven't found it become? Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Jane. We're out of time today, but I really appreciate your candor and your story and all the personal information you put out there for everyone to learn from and glean all of your wisdom. And I really appreciate your time.

 

[00:51:11] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Patricia, have a great rest of the day. Absolutely. For everyone here today, we have been speaking with Jane Elizabeth. She's a best selling author, a personal trainer, coach and athlete.

 

[00:51:21] You can find out more on her two Instagram handles, one, his bad ass rebel dot oners, and the other is C Dot, Jane Dot, do Dutch everything. Her book is called Become a Badass Rebel Runner. Her app, the mobile app, is called Bad Ass Rebel Runners.

 

[00:51:38] And until we speak again next time. Thank you so much for giving us your time. And remember to stay, shake, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

 

Speaking with Niki Webster; Cookbook Author, Food Consultant & stylist, & Holistic Health Coach

Today I am speaking with Niki Webster. Niki is a cookbook author, freelance food consultant, recipe creator, food stylist, photographer and qualified Holistic Health Coach. Niki shares her easy and accessible plant-based recipes packed with fresh seasonal organic veg on her award-winning food blog Rebel Recipes. Her debut cookbook 'Rebel Recipes' was released December. Niki has a social media following of over 300,000 and works with a range of household brands including Sainsburys, Riverford and Kenwood. She is the co-host of the podcast What the Focaccia and regularly teaches workshops and appears on panels.

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with cookbook author, food consultant stylist Niki Webster. Key points addressed were Niki's Web site, blog and new cookbook titled Rebel Recipes. I also had the chance to ask Niki about her perspective regarding the Vegan scene in the UK, where she is based, as well as about some of the core philosophies and values she has based all of her cooking, writing and podcasting around. Stay tuned for my interesting chat with Niki Webster.

 

[00:00:35] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:33] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Niki Webster. Niki is a cookbook author, food consultant and stylist. You can find out more regarding everything that she does. Her cookbook, as well as her podcast on w w w dot rebel recipes dot com. Welcome, Niki.

 

[00:01:51] Hi. So thank you for having me.

 

[00:01:54] Absolutely. I am so excited to cleanse you everything that you're doing. We've spoken to your good chum. Bettina recently on this podcast. I'm very happy to get the other co-host on the podcast as well as I love nepotism and kind of friendly relationships like that for everyone listening. We're going to go over a quick bio for Niki to kind of garner a sense of who we're speaking with today. But prior to that, I'll give you a roadmap for today's podcast so you can kind of follow the trajectory in which I will be basing the large portion of my inquiries from. I'll first ask Niki to describe a little bit about her academic background and occupational history, so can garner a sense of what her history has offered her up until this point. And then we'll look at her personal history and rhetoric regarding her Vegan or plant based journey and where it brought her to now and then. We'll turn towards unpacking her website, blog and podcast and we'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, hi, how founding time period, all of those. And then we'll turn to the ethos and the philosophy behind her work and how the threads kind of pull through her podcast, her book, her recipes, all of those good things. And then we'll get into some of the particulars just around the Vegan culture and a lot of the issues that she's brought up on her podcast. I've had the pleasure of listening to quite a few of those, and I would love to kind of climb through some of those core tenants and get Niki's opinion on a lot of those things. That will wrap up our half an hour podcast so quickly. As promised, a bio on Niki. Niki Webster is founder of Rezac Rebel Recipes. She is a cookbook author, freelance food consultant, recipe creator, food stylist, photographer and qualified holistic health coach. Niki shares her easy and accessible plant based recipes packed with fresh, seasonal organic veg on her award winning food blog, Rebel Recipes. Her debut cookbook, Rebel Recipes, was released in December. Niki has a social media following of over 300000 and works with a range of household brands, including Sansbury River, Ford and Kenwood and Kenwood. She is the host of the podcast. What the Focaccia and regularly teaches workshops and appears on panels and What the Coccia is the podcast. I was listening to and referring to and I hope everyone jumps on and checks that out. I will have Niki kind of drop. You can find that on her website, rebel recipes dot com. But I'll have her kind of enumerate more of those. Those podcasts in a minute. But Niki, I'm hoping you can start us off talking about your academic background, occupational life and some of your Vegan story as it transpires through both of those.

 

[00:04:32] Yeah, of course. Okay. So in terms of my academic background, I think like many people, I can really go to where you have an interesting route to, actually owes the Bloods it up now. But I basically went to university and I studied sociology and criminal justice, completely unrelated to anything I'm doing. Yeah, but there were just subjects I would sort of secret interest in and I love doing. And then I sort of finished university, went back home, had absolutely no money. So I just needed to get a job. So I basically worked in a bar and I got a job as a graduate trainee at a breakfast roll company.

 

[00:05:15] And yes, basically I did graduate for you. Always get a broad understanding of the business. Some Chinese and I thought that was sort of a good place to start coming from the bases.

 

[00:05:29] I literally was so broke I just had to get a job. So an opening came, became available in multi departments with breakfast or company, and that sounded eminently more exciting than the projects and the things I was doing working in the factory and various things at the time. So I am very sort of I'm quite determined, criticized when I put my mind to something, I sort of go all out and try and get it. And that sounds like a better option. So the marketing. That sounds exciting. No, I'll go in and see what that's all about. So what's the role? And yet I really liked it. It was tiny. That was it. The company was in sort of transition and turmoil and also sort of thrown deep end. And I had no idea what was doing. But it just seemed like a fun, exciting, interesting, relatively creative role. So. So, yeah. So I stayed in marketing. I worked in that role for a couple of years, sort of changing roles as a product management and brand management role. And then, yeah, sort of got him to a stage where. Wanted to progress further. I was only young. Opportunity is also getting a little bit ahead of myself, I felt like I knew everything, knew absolutely nothing. Yeah, and then. Right. Well, I've had enough. I'm not not moving forward enough, so. Well, I'll move on. So at that time, I'd started seeing a guy he would he was at you need finished duty.

 

[00:06:53] So he was living in Birmingham.

 

[00:06:56] I'm from Shropshire. That means anything to you. I mean, I was living in Birmingham, finishing at eight. So I went to looking for the jobs and the recruitment company that I was looking jobs through, said Nicky. Would you like to. We'd be interested. Working agreements. I had absolutely no idea about recruitment. I think they were luring me in with the promise of huge bonuses. Lots of hot work. I've never been afraid of hard work. So the challenge was quite appealing to me. And yes, I basically went to work in recruitment, sales, recruitment for about 18 months. I think it was in the end. But honestly, it was such a horrific shock to my system. Yeah. I was genuinely awful at it initially. And but I you know, I'm I like to absorb things. I like to be good at things if I can be. So I you know, I work really hard. It's so intense. We need to work twelve hours a day. Yeah. You know, it's a sales role. So it was it was difficult. But it honestly, I feel like it changed my genes, my career trajectory. I would say just for the fact that I got the opportunity to pay off all of my student loans, which, you know, I felt a weight off. No. Yeah. I mean, kids leave school and they have loads of major debts, basically. And and it sort of is relatively prohibitive to what you can actually do. And I didn't feel right for you having all these debts. So I basically paid it all off and then decided much to my mum's horror because I was you know, I've always been maybe a little bit rebellious and naughty and didn't necessarily do the things that, you know, people expect me to do. And. And so I just got myself in. A situation is more financially secure. I had a stable, if not exciting career improvement. Yeah. Right now, my boyfriend. So I was just going one evening were to go traveling for six months. So, yeah, much mum's horror. She was just, you know, up in arms and said, how can you do this? But we're off. So spent went to Asia and India for three and a half months and feels a bike traveled round the whole of the south coast, although the end of India. And. And then, yeah, I did a huge tour, really three 1/2 months in India. And then we went over to Thailand for Christmas. It's very exciting. And then went to Cambodia like Vietnam, back to Bangkok, flew to Nepal to track him in the Himalayas and then went back down through northern India. So brilliant.

 

[00:09:35] That's was right track. Well done. I mean, he know so young. Yeah. Absolutely. And those countries are not frequently picked, at least not by the young Globetrotters I talked to today. You know, that's an amazing journey.

 

[00:09:48] It was. And this is I still find it quite sinding in six months. My boyfriend and I only spend fifteen hundred pounds each.

 

[00:09:59] Excellent.

 

[00:10:01] I mean, that's a book unto itself. That's an advisory board at the very least.

 

[00:10:07] That included it need to the flights and visas. We were it was it was one big sort of negotiation and anything that's really where my no comments talking about my recipes and things. But that's that's one of the things that really instilled my sort of, you know, passion for the food and different cuisines. And, you know, vegetarian never would've been sort of vegetarian begin for a long, long time. But, you know, those countries, they just did the most amazing, you know, vegetarian food. So that was just such a joyous experience, I think, even though we spent so little money. Most of the most that time is actually deciding what we're going to eat every day. So that was a highlight there. That was so inspirational. So anyway, I came back from traveling again, once again, this pending situation, and then went back home to Shropshire. And I hope Ryan's going to see what I can get back into marketing. And and so I did. I worked in a in a dairy company, yogurt company and a brand management position for a couple of years. That company was sold. And then what went to work in salad? What there for a number of years. So, yes, it's sort of produced by healthy eating. And I moved around a little bit from management, then sort of marketing. Mok's manager and I specialize in social media and digital marketing.

 

[00:11:31] Nice. Were you Vegan when you were traveling throughout India and Asia?

 

[00:11:35] Yeah, vegetarian, but sort of Vegan because I've got a dairy allergy. So. So yes, I would have said I was vegetarian, but mostly vegan because, you know, I've always had an issue with dairy. So even though I can sort of tolerate it a little bit and sometimes how to avoid things. Yeah. Most vegetarian.

 

[00:11:58] It's foretelling.

 

[00:11:59] I was talking to you off the air and I listened to a podcast or somewhere where you were mentioning, you know, as a child, your introduction, your baptism into curry paste and how you were putting that on everything because it was like this new found first spice, you know, in the kitchen as you kind of walked into the kitchen and were introducing yourself to that whole scene that you ended up in India, you know, kind of eating.

 

[00:12:20] But I always tell people my relationship with being Vegan changes so drastically with every new country I go to. And it's the investigation of the local cuisine of not just the local cuisine, the local agriculture.

 

[00:12:34] You know, I was in Fiji recently and cassava is just not something they serve a great deal in the United States, at least not on the West Coast where I live and researching cassava and the differences between the nutritional differences between that and a potato and why that kind of plays into how you cook it slightly differently and how the locals use it. And it's just it's always growing. My relationship with it. And so it's for you to have traveled through all of these countries. I think people think of a lot of Asian and Indian cuisines and and don't realize how many, like just sharply Vegan, naturally Vegan recipes there are, as well as how many ingredients kind of augment, you know, Vegan cooking today all over the world. So I think it's an awesome baptism into what you did. I'm curious, what was the springboard into this? You know, you you career travel back to your career, what took you into this entrepreneurial? I'm going to launch my role. I'm going to start creating recipes. How did that all come together?

 

[00:13:32] Yeah. I've been into cooking and food for ever.

 

[00:13:37] I've just been the biggest foodie. And, you know, you you mentioned meats. I'm starting to use curry paste, things like that. I've just I've just got this really sort of strange taste buds, I think. And even though it's grew up in the UK, you know, my mom was my mom's a great cook, actually, but it's just very traditional, sort of, you know, in U.K., British cuisine, potatoes and meats and vegetables and use this funds a little bit now. But, you know, definitely growing up digital and I just didn't find exciting tool. I just find it super bland because I was I've never, ever been interested in eating meat and I always have a dairy allergy.

 

[00:14:17] You know, it was just a bit limited, you know, what I could eat. So that's where the sort of, you know, this whole world exploded when I suddenly discovered concretized. Sounds really simple, but. Oh, my goodness, I can get food. I find that Blanton's suddenly exciting. And then. Yeah, so I suppose it is driven by me always sort of cooking for myself and having to create the food I like to eat. So yes, we've been cooking these recipes and I've been thinking about starting a blog for quite a long time before I actually start today, because I think, like, I would just have never crossed the nation and why would I do it would be would be interesting. All of this sort of physical barriers haven't gone along. How can I get one? You know, I'm really busy working with Chris, really important. Just things just busy.

 

[00:15:07] So when they get press donated.

 

[00:15:10] For many years, few years, and then and then suddenly there was just more of a sort of burning urgency to actually do it. And, you know, as things get to the stage where if you don't do it is actually unbearable, you know, mentally that you just have to do so.

 

[00:15:27] So, yes, my my husband is a graphic designer. He builds websites among many things, many, many hats like me. And so finally, I persuaded him kindly make my first Web site. And yeah, I just started to put things online. I sort of because I had a background in food marketing and digital marketing, I sort of sort of knew I was doing. So I decided to, you know, software platforms at the same time. Instagram five years ago was not that huge right now, right? Yeah. But I loved it because I'm incredibly visual, sort of creative person. So for me, even though the things I was putting on that were. Hideous, freezing. Awful. But excellent, really lovely creative outlet. Yeah. And just something that I could see myself doing for myself because, you know, doing all sort of stuff at work, which was fine. The job was good. But I just I was feeling increasingly more frustrated that I just had to work for myself. And, yeah, it was getting uncomfortable even. Yeah. I was rationalizing at that stop. That job is good. It's provides a steady income. You know, I've worked hard to get AM, but I've just really wanted to work for myself and see what I could do it.

 

[00:16:49] Yeah. And that's I mean, it's an interesting point I like from your background. I don't talk to a lot of it. I think maybe some are more well versed than they like to give credit to.

 

[00:16:59] I think that the great fear with chefs is that you'll take away from the recipe design and things of that nature. If you talk about the stylization or the visual aspects of the food, they bring photographers in. You know, they have it done. But that part is very unspoken. For the cookbook and I like your attention to and you're honest, you know, candor with the idea that you like stylization of food and, you know, and menu design and recipes, it's like you're not afraid of that design aspect. And I'm really curious because I haven't had the honor of cracking your cookbook yet, which I promise you I will do in the near future.

 

[00:17:34] But I wonder when you went to create that. How much of the conversation was about. I like it.

 

[00:17:41] There must have been some kind of a rapport between the two because you're visually and stylistically in very in tune with, you know, the appearance of food and stylizing food.

 

[00:17:52] How much of the creation or the direction or the route that the cookbook take took was based on that aspect as opposed to the recipes? You know, was it was there any conversation that directed the flow or which foods made it in which you didn't? Because you're so keen to be open and honest with some of those visual aspects of food?

 

[00:18:13] Yeah, I think that's really interesting. And I suppose my whole business, unsuccess, my business is stems from from online and from Instagram, which is clearly a visual platform round. And so it's all intrinsically linked. So so, yes. I mean, I don't get lots of thoughts on that, actually, because. Yeah.

 

[00:18:38] Everything I make. I'm sort of thinking about it from a visual perspective. And I I think I can pretty much make most things attractive because a lot of the food I chose to eat in my cookbook and online. They're quite brown, actually. I mean, I eat a lot of lentils and curries things because I always want to post authentically what I'm eating. And that's the essence of it comes I can write about things that visually and also assuage people's Marxian plan in terms of sort of, you know, online. And I know that lots of craters absolutely create food purely for the visual aspect, because I know that that's popular. And that's part of that business model. And it is in my mind, and I will think that I need to make this look attractive. However, it is still a bite. For me, the taste in January wasn't eating and having sort of a, you know, documenting. This is what I'm eating. This is what, you know, on a day to day basis rather than creating specific content.

 

[00:19:44] And it does. And I think that to actually have a lot of conversation between each other in an unspoken way. Bettina, your buddy and I were talking about I'm eating seasonally, you know, and she converted me.

 

[00:19:57] I feel like I talk to so many nutritionists and vegans a week that you couldn't possibly introduce a new idea. And bam, there it was with Bettina. And she said, you know, I'm even with the greenhouse's, even the ability to eat year round. It doesn't taste the same. She doesn't believe it does the same thing for your body, which I don't now either. And she's like she was talking about genuinely tasting, you know, a strawberry in season. And what that tastes like from a responsible farm and comparing that to the difference of one grown year round.

 

[00:20:27] And I was thinking when I hung up with her, even the vibrancy like I was at the market, you know, strawberries are in season. And she was right. They have never. If you look at the most vibrant, saturated foods in real life. Right. I r l then you are looking at things that are very much so in season and then that's having a conversation with the visual, with the taste. You know, if it's looking vibrant and you haven't shoved chemicals all over it to get it that way, it's going to taste beautiful.

 

[00:20:55] Yeah. Because you absolutely eat with your eyes. So, I mean, it looks vibrant and juicy and gorgeous. You're gonna wanna read it, but I can. I completely agree. You know, I'm a huge fan of, you know, organic veg boxes. I said, what about it all the time? Because it's just such a sort of superway, super easy way of knowing first and knowing what's in season. And secondly is having this gorgeous seasonal product.

 

[00:21:21] It's all organic, all grown, perfectly delivered to you. And it's like an education in itself because, you know, with it, with a weekly box, it's. It's fresh. It's you know, it's hopefully, you know, locally ish. If, you know, it's always a bit of a challenge in the UK because it's not the water supply climates. It's so but obviously it's something that we're benefiting from losers'. I you've raised muchly. Yeah.

 

[00:21:46] Yeah. You're literally getting the best on produce at the moment, so it's just the best time. And that in itself is super borrowing. That's again how I tended about recipes I would take. The raw ingredient for me is sort of the the veg, the seasonal veg, and then basically create sort of, you know, recipes around that. And that's it. I use that sort of guide, how I how I develop. And then it's yeah, it's not only fresh, but it's healthy, it's in season and it's like a Yes. Little roadmap of how to eat seasonally. And I'm curious about that.

 

[00:22:18] I was wondering how one, because you're kind of guided by your own light. So the curation process, it sounds like what's in season and then do you take any following feedback? Do you ever hear fans say, listen, I want you to show me how to cook this? Like how much of it is directed by what you're doing and what you think is cool at the time? And if it is just all based on you? Where do you get your influences? Do you go out? You talked. I mean, obviously, the pandemic has put a damper on these kinds of inquiries. But prior to that, do you do you kind of expose yourself to influences that will then curate what you're making? How does all of that come to be with what you're creating right now?

 

[00:22:57] Yeah, it's sort of a combination of everything I'd say, because I've been sort of developing continents Vegan recipes for quite a while now. I do I do sort of know what people want from me.

 

[00:23:08] So but of course, that in itself is driven by those type of things I like to produce and eat, so. Yeah. So, yes, it sort of feeds into each other. I think people have come to expect from me a certain type of recipes so they know they're going to get the whole food recipe. It's going to be natural products can be seasonal VegFest commercially can be organic, it's going to be pulses, it's going to be, you know, veg based food. You know, that's the center. So they sort of expect that. And then I'm always having a conversation myself with, you know, maybe I should be doing a few more cakes. They may make or Rakestraw. They may want chocolate. But it's you know, I mean, I'm sort of instinctively drawn to them. Some people so passionate about baking. They love making all the desserts. But it's not something I typically eat that much. Yeah. I don't I don't I don't really do it. So it maybe is producing things quite selfishly. But then I also think it's coming from a place of natural food. Whole Foods and, you know, seasonal veg. So hopefully if I can make it tasty enough, which I'm always trying to do, sort of inject layers of layers of flavor and spices. And also, I think that that's what food is quite accessible. You know, store cupboard is quite cheap.

 

[00:24:26] You know, if you if you've got the basics pulses and some grains and some nuts and seeds and then you add some nice seasonal veg. But, you know, that's cheap. But not, you know, big batches of food. And you make it delicious. It sort of takes quite a few boxes.

 

[00:24:41] Absolutely. How many of your recipes did you take for your cookbook? Rebel Recipes from your website. Rebel recipes? About 25.

 

[00:24:52] Yeah, I went in publisher. They felt that that was because some recipes in which some recipes over the years just have just superseded popular. So I think it's nice for people to have it in a Walker handheld format rather than accessing online.

 

[00:25:10] What are your baptismal recipes? And when I mean that, I mean from non vegans. What do you like to serve most? On a personal level or recommend other people make who are kind of getting societies and communities? A big conversation happening among Vegan and non vegans that isn't angry is one of like, how do I introduce them to this? Without that, there's a great deal of fear with people who think that, you know, they're going to be missing out on dairy meat. All of the things that they've been used to. Do you have, like go tos that you recommend for yourself or for others that people make?

 

[00:25:43] Yeah, I think it's you sort of have to think about making people really satisfied and happy. So, for example, if you set someone up, you know, big place of salad, it might be healthy and might look gorgeous and be very vibrant and might be seasonal.

 

[00:26:00] But I don't know, I wasn't necessarily going to be really satisfied from that. So I really loved the big, hearty sort of comfort foods type dishes.

 

[00:26:11] So I would, you know, probably have a really lovely spiced curry or something or stew, but then not just that, because that's good in itself. And you can be feel comforted and happy, but then you have some layers of flavor. I mean, I always have big with great big feasts. So that is a problem I have. I can't just create one day she'll have to think is my main dish. And then let's just sneak three others and some flatbread and some crunch. And I think that's, you know, some tips and then a bit of salad and then some people.

 

[00:26:41] And I think that's what, you know, people are missing. Sometimes when I'm not eating meat, that's sort of like different flavors and textures. And so if you have that's something that's like big and hearty and comforting and you've got some, you know, vegetables and roast veggies and pulses, but then you've got something sharp, that pickle, and then you've got some flatbreads mochi up and you've got some creamy hummus. I mean, you could feel pretty excited and satisfied by that meat because it's just the amazing texture combination.

 

[00:27:10] Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

 

[00:27:11] And I think that one of the negative associations people have with veganism, which I'm not sure where it stems from.

 

[00:27:16] I think it comes from the early punk movement that was in the 80s where a great deal of people expressing the Vegan philosophy were very, very like anorexic looking white boys walking around. And so I think that that was like somehow, because I feel like one of the negative associations is that vegans don't eat where. Pound for pound my meals and the amount of food I consume because it's so much, you know, raw and whole fruits and vegetables. It's actually quite, quite much a great deal larger than someone who's actually eating meat or cheeses, which are dense and kind of like on your plate, you know. And so I think that this huge abundance visually of food is kind of this like.

 

[00:27:55] And now we feast, you know, kind of flips that on its head, which is delightful. I'm wondering with that. So I forgot to go over for all of my nerdy little founders out there. The logistics of can you just run us to rattle off really quickly when the website was founded? Did you have co-founders? Did you take any funding to found it? And what was originally the content of it?

 

[00:28:17] Yep. Founded in 2015.

 

[00:28:19] And it was basically all just purely myself and just done at the same time as my marketing job. So for the first 18 months, I was doing it alongside some needed income.

 

[00:28:29] So just working really hard, getting used to sort of exercise at six a.m. for work. And then I just swapped it. And so instead I would get up and create content. Yeah. And then. Yes, of successively creating content constantly. And as I said, pretty badly initially. But I really wanted to work. You know, I studied hard to, you know, make myself look a bit more appealing. And then. Yeah, and then it was quite slow initially. And what I said was working at the same time. And then I got better gain, more followers, more opportunities preparing.

 

[00:29:08] I want this organization over the award, which is amazing, about sort of eight months after I started, which was just incredible. And yet things to Rome, really.

 

[00:29:22] And I just felt that, you know, there was only so much I could do. I'm just going to sort of take this scary leap and resign and see what happens. And then, yeah, it's just been sort of like up and down sort of rollercoaster, but absolutely amazing. And I think, you know, I always say that. And I sort of felt that if I Johnson did take the chance. I mean, at the end of the day, I could, I'm sure, get a Moxham job again. So it is when you take the risk that exciting things happen and if you sort of have confidence that you have the sort of work ethic sort of to work. And I was literally, I think most people's saying yes to absolutely everything. Yes, I can do that whether I can. But I'll I'll give it a go. Make it your house. All sorts of crazy things. And some things work. Some things were not so good. But, you know, it's all a learning process. And yeah. And then it's just sort of evolved and things have definitely changed over time. But yeah.

 

[00:30:23] Well, to that end, I kind of want to pull on that thread a little bit just because I you know, you're across the pond and I can go on and on about the Vegan community here over the past 10 years and the change it's currently even undergoing this incredible spike. I actually really adore being on the flagship, as it were, of know the second wave of veganism in this. Because I think it's exciting to see things change and manifest, and this is where the podcast. This podcast is built out of the rhetoric and the growing change of Vegan worlds. But I want to know about the UK, which I haven't. I'm. I visit Ireland a great deal. And so I know a little bit about their scene. And I was just in Australia and Fiji and bunch of those places.

 

[00:31:02] But the UK, it's interesting. I've spoken to about 30 people so far for the podcast and about seven or eight of those have been people located in the UK and they talk about. So there's been two schools of thought. One of them was that they felt as though, you know, the US had a greater threshold and strong stronghold on the Vegan culture and the UK was kind of behind, if you will. And taking notes from it. And conversely, I've spoken to a great deal of Americans that believe that. Well, they had one of the first institutions in, you know, just outside of London that was certifying and talking about the philosophy of the Vegan culture and had like an actual certification program in Vegan dietary cuisines and things like that. And so they believe that the UK was the four founder of it. And neither of that's important as to who was really the granddaddy or grandmother of the whole thing is not here or there for me. What I'm curious about is right now and the past, you know, over the span of your professional life, what is the growth and tone been like for the Vegan culture? I know it was neach and tiny and small, but what has it been as of the past five years in your eyes as it relates to food and your industry?

 

[00:32:19] I think it's it's been so interesting, firstly, because when I started on my channels, my blog. It was absolutely in that initial stage. There was no one talking about it at all.

 

[00:32:31] And, you know, a few people across the world that I had the pleasure of connecting to to make me feel less weird. But, yeah, tiny.

 

[00:32:43] And then I don't know. It was like for me, it felt like a wash, just an explosion. And I felt those you know, there's some resistance in the press. And then it just it was like a tidal wave of acceptance, I think, in the U.K. And now it's unbelievable.

 

[00:33:01] Of course, you know, there's been no restaurants or anything for the past few months, but. Pretty much all restaurants, you know, even in obscure areas now that they've got. Vegan options. These markets are incredible. My friend Derek Sonna has been instrumental in developing the Tesco Vegan range. And then all the other retailers pretty much followed suit and they've got huge ranges. So from our perspective on all lines, eating natural foods. Yeah. And I provide recipes that don't necessarily aren't necessarily replacement for meat. But if you if businesses are just moving into veganism or you do want something that emulates that sort of meaty taste a little bit, the ranges are huge. So, you know, there's so many options everywhere. I mean, I'd love to live in London. But, you know, directional seed in London is amazing. So, yeah, it's it's exploded. It's sort of secret.

 

[00:34:01] So two time cookbooks, online platforms, everything. What year do you think that that happened? Can you say it like a year or a time period in which you really felt like that that change happened? Yeah, I think it was a couple of years ago that things really escalated. I think the year before it was moving and then a couple of years ago, it just exploded. You personally.

 

[00:34:23] Do you find that with the acceptance you're able to bring in not more centric, but maybe more eclectic or, you know, it's like, let's see, maybe baking like arrowroot?

 

[00:34:35] I mean, I couldn't find it 10 years ago without going, you know, a bit outside of town. And now, you know, those types of things are even coming down in price because of the commonality of Vegan bakers cooking with things like that, that those kinds of thickening agents. But I'm curious, do you find yourself being influenced by it as as a creator? Do you find yourself kind of broadening what you are inspiring people to cook? Like, how has that kind of infiltrated you, the way you cook and your business with this kind of acceptance opening up?

 

[00:35:06] Yeah, I just I.

 

[00:35:09] I don't think I've ever really created recipes specifically for vegans. I've I've always just created. I hope I try. This is my aim.

 

[00:35:19] Really tasty, plump based food, Vegan food that I hope is accessible to everyone. Because, you know, again, this is a huge thing in the UK. And I think this is instrumental in terms of people's acceptance. It's really now, you know, this is Stovall's of people that like die hard meat eaters that, you know, would never, ever eat a Vegan meal, you know, that just quit. And now I know personally people that, like, aren't unique from Monday, I'm reducing my meat content. So that's just for me that indicates the real shift change.

 

[00:35:51] So how would you. So how are they about recipes is. This is some really delicious veg based food. And I hope. Viegas, I like it, but parents don't like it. People that reducing meat will like it.

 

[00:36:04] So it's open to anyone. But in terms of ingredients. Yeah, I think there's a lot more a lot more awareness night because of so much stuff in the process, so much stuff on TV, it's becoming more mainstream. Sort of weird Nishu readings. It's definitely becoming more accessible. I mean, eat. I mean, you know, I mean, there's always been these like plant based milks, but I mean, not from walks.

 

[00:36:24] There's 20 plant based milks, you know, this far. Vegan Jesus. You know, it's just it's just amazing everywhere. And one of the sudsing workshops like what is nutritional yeast? Is it. Is it just the Yeast Munch workshops? They've provided the ingredients. I've got like a little pot of diesel, fresh yeast and like. No, no, no. Right, right. This terrines. People people know that.

 

[00:36:51] Yeah, they do. I agree. And I like that.

 

[00:36:53] I like I like all knowledge, you know, I don't care which can't be subscribed to you, but I want everyone to read the same information so that we can argue adequately, especially when it comes to nutrition and health and things like that, that I think are direct byproducts of the Vegan culture, which is another reason why I think the covered nineteen pandemic has resurged in, you know, acclimated regardless of its roots. And I don't even get into the wet market conversation with anyone other than friends. But the conversation with health has always been here. And I'm glad to have that be like one of the things that's most quickly attached to the Vegan lifestyle. You did drop the word and I usually wait for all of my guests to do it. You said plant based three times. So I'm going to ask you, what is your key and fundamental difference between being plant based and being Vegan and how do you define each for yourself?

 

[00:37:42] Yes, so Vegan for me is a lifestyle choice.

 

[00:37:46] And for me, that's more. That's that is an ethical choice, a move, a commitment to being sort of Vegan in all aspects of your lives, making commitment to have a crew, to feed lifestyle, not one lever, you know, not not having cruelty free makeup and beauty products. And it's it's a much broader lifestyle thing for me.

 

[00:38:06] Plant based is much more centered around having a plant centric diet and embracing, you know, could be Vegan. But it's more about having a sort of, you know, a plant focus. That's OK.

 

[00:38:22] And to that end, does plant based denote health? Because that's been the next connection that everyone's making that the marketing industry has just attached on to that and flown off into the sunset with plant based denoting organic health healthy, those types of things.

 

[00:38:40] Does that work for you to degree?

 

[00:38:44] Because I think that, you know, on a really basic level, including more plants and tump based derivatives and sort of natural products in your diet, for me, that's sort of an easy way to make you a little bit healthier if you're eating natural foods and plant based fruits and vegetables and fruits and things like that.

 

[00:39:00] Vegan. In my mind, it's it's an ethical commitments. You could be healthier. Big Vegan. But it doesn't Nessus. It doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand because you can be a vegan and just eat sort of, you know, processed Vegan food. But, you know, do it for purely ethical reasons, so I find know separate.

 

[00:39:24] Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's important to separate them regardless of how one defines them. They need to be defined. I think it's crucial also to have individuals define and companies how they're using those terms. You know, because I do find that most vegans believe that that title Vegan is much more of a lifestyle and philosophy and those who are not Vegan view it as a dietary restriction. So it's an interesting, you know, disconnect, if you will, that I think is solved by defining terms, which is I think we should do more of across the board in all of society and civilization. Defining one's terms would clarify a lot of things. I want to jump quickly into the podcast. I know we're kind of coming in on time, but I loved it and I loved listening to it. And again, I spoke with Bettina, who is on this podcast series a few weeks back.

 

[00:40:14] And I told you off the air and I kind of want to bring it back on to record right now. What I liked about it is I'm kind of picky with my podcast. It's not just because I'm a podcast host, it's because I care about information and knowledge. And then I also, you know, I care about show person, ship and flow and those types of things. And I really like your podcast. I've listened to four of them. And I think there's seven or eight total that I could find online. And I want to know when it was founded. But I really I have to put it out there that I think that the flow of information is very succinct and different. And you would think that it might be the same. I thought, oh, they're both going to be saying the same thing and simply agreeing with one another. And it's simply not what happens. You just have such different perspectives on things that you bring and augment. And then when you bring your guest on as well, I think it's just this kind of beautiful round table and you're keeping your times tight at like 20 minutes. I have to applaud you for all of those things, but I want to know when you launched it and how you kind of develop what you're going to speak about around it, because you come into some very core topics about Vegan food, Vegan culture, you know, aspects of nutrition, all of those things. So how do you curate the show? When was it founded and how do you continue moving forward?

 

[00:41:27] So we started just recording. I think it was October last year, and then it took some time, as I'm sure you know, it's that get the guest Pennsylvanian actually available. And on the show, the producer sort of edited a little bit and then just to cut out the repetitive stuff. And then it launched in January. And then we basically launched one every week for, you know, six, seven weeks. So actually, in terms of the content, it's really quite organic because petite and I know each other really well and have quite a good sort of. Bantry dynamic, sort of slightly challenging each other and definitely aren't sort of too polite and were happy to disagree with each other. I think that's sort of naturally works. And that's really why we thought that we might be okay doing a podcast together. And then we just sort of think about what we would love to hear and what we think the audience would love to hear from the person that were having on the podcast. And of course, it doesn't necessarily always go to plan because, you know, people it's conversation and people, you know, say whatever they want, but that's what we do, really. So it's really quite organic. And we didn't necessarily know know. We didn't. We did. We did it. Yeah. Point intuitively, I would say. So if you think it's good that that's what it is.

 

[00:42:51] I idea. And I'm picky. I think it's magnificent. I always have to preface that I am really pick and picky with my fashion and my podcasts. I cannot I don't have any leeway there, so I really do enjoy it. I hope everyone gets on. Where can everyone find it? You can find it on your website. You guys are on iTunes.

 

[00:43:05] You're on Spotify, all the normal places. Yeah. And it's called something. So a bit cheeky. Yeah. Gotcha. I love it a lot. Yeah. I think it's appropriately titled too.

 

[00:43:19] And it's it's easy to remember. I like that, you know. And the name I'm wondering as we wrap up today, I wish we could talk longer. I always wish that.

 

[00:43:30] But with you particularly so I'm wondering how what you think I do want you to be brazen here, because I think that those are kind of the best answers and people are afraid to talk about the future, particularly more so now. But where do you see some of the biggest changes and movements happening for the Vegan industry in so much as it affects health as as a subsequent effect from diet and and food? Where do you see the next five to 10 years playing out? If you had to kind of surmise from everything you've experienced thus far.

 

[00:44:10] Honestly, I don't know.

 

[00:44:11] I think the world is in such flux at the moment. I mean, I think that, you know, the ground for me, I feel it's shifting by the day. So things which felt normal and you can maybe make prediction last week. Something is happening today and everything's changed, so.

 

[00:44:29] But I do feel that on the whole, people are just becoming way more aware, you know, in terms of society and health, in terms of that diet, in terms of, you know, ethical and moral decisions. And, you know, I think this lockdown situation has given people the headspace to actually think about things in a way that isn't important. You know, what do I want to do?

 

[00:44:52] Am I going to change things?

 

[00:44:53] And you know what's good, what's good for the planet, what's good for me. But, you know, am I do all this stuff and I don't need to be doing it. So I don't know. I'm really hopeful because I think that.

 

[00:45:04] Yes, it's like it's like a weird reset and people thinking things much more.

 

[00:45:10] And also in terms of sort of what food people are cooking more, so they're thinking about what they're putting on the table, having to think about it, you know, three times a day and getting more engaged with it. So so generally, I think I'm I mean, I didn't think, you know, being a strength was going away anyway. But just because people are much more conscious and aware now, I think, ever before. I think you just continue to grow.

 

[00:45:37] I agree with you.

 

[00:45:38] And I think the demystification of food and the the re conversation that people are having with the food that they thought they knew, you know, is is part of that beautiful natural evolution that you describe happening. That is, it wasn't going away before and is probably augmented with the most recent endeavor.

 

[00:45:58] Well, Niki, we're out of time, but I want to say thank you so much for all of your conversation today. I really enjoyed it. And I hope everybody tunes in, listens to your podcast, jumps on your website and checks out your cookbook.

 

[00:46:09] Thank you so much for having me. All of it. Absolutely. And for all of you listening, thank you so much for giving us your time.

 

[00:46:15] We have been speaking with Niki Webster. She's a cookbook author, food consultant and stylist. She just had her first book come out. Rebel Recipes. And you can also jump online. W w. W. Rebel recipes, dot com. Check out her podcast from there as well. She's got a ton of wonderful YouTube, blogs, recipes, consultancy information. There's so many great things. And thank you for giving us your time today until we speak again next time.

 

[00:46:40] Remember to stay safe, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

 

Talking with Katrina Fox; Journalist, Author, Founder & PR consultant

Today I am speaking with Katrina Fox. Katrina is an award-winning journalist, publicity consultant, editor of the vegan business blog VeganBusinessMedia.com, host of Vegan Business Talk podcast and author of Vegan Ventures: Start and Grow an Ethical Business, the first global book providing success strategies for aspiring and existing vegan business owners, and founder of the Plant Powered Women’s Network global ethical leadership community. 

 

Key points addressed were  

• Katrina’s animal advocacy and how her written journalist and book work have all been in effort to aid the core tenants of that advocacy
• We also discussed many common issues vegan businesses have in regards to PR and market engagement and how she has designed tools to dissolve these problems and enable vegan companies to thrive.

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:01] In this episode, I speak with journalist, author, founder and PR consultant Katrina Fox. Key points addressed were Katrina's animal advocacy and how her written journalist and book work have all been in effort to aid the core tenants of that advocacy. We also discussed many common issues Vegan businesses have in regards to PR and market engagement and how she has designed tools to dissolve these problems and enable Vegan companies to thrive. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Katrina Fox.

 

[00:00:43] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:40] Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Katrina Fox. Katrina is a journalist, author, founder and PR consultant. You can find out more about her services as well as everything we talk about in today's podcast at w w w dot. Katrina Fox dot com as well as w w w dot Vegan business media dot com. Welcome. Katrina.

 

[00:02:04] Hello, Patricia. It's a pleasure to be with you today all the way across the pond.

 

[00:02:10] Thank you. Katrina earlier today, I'm excited we could make our schedules work as well. I look forward to diving into everything that you're doing, just talking off the air that Katrina is kind of based her consultancy in an industry that I think is going to blow up and is already blowing up, but perhaps even more so.

 

[00:02:29] For those of you that are new to the podcast. I will give you a brief bio on Katrina before I ask her to further elaborate on that and her history and then get into some of her current endeavors. But before we get to that, a quick roadmap for today's podcast. We will look. As I said, it triggered some of Katrina's past histories, professional, academic, anything that ties into her current story as it pertains to what she's doing now. I'll also ask her to unpack her personal Vegan journey as it pertains to all of the areas that we'll be talking about today. And then we'll look at unpacking Katrina's work in three different sectors. Namely, we'll look at her podcast, her book and her online courses, and we'll see if we can kind of suss out her ethos and business philosophies as they stand within that. Before we do those three things, however, we will also ask Katrina to kind of decipher and self-defined key terms that tend to create heated debate and topic within the Vegan world and community will climb upon those just asking for some personal definitions. So we all have clarity as to how we're defining things. And we'll wrap all of the podcast up with advice for those of you that are looking to get involved with Katrina, as well as maybe some of the predictions that she has for the next five or so years on the horizon. Things have changed greatly over the world landscape with the covered 19 pandemic. So this is an area that's changed a lot for people when they go to look forward. As promised, before I start peppering her with questions, a quick bio. Katrina Fox is an award winning journalist, publicity consultant, editor of the Vegan business blog Vegan. Business Media dot com, host of Vegan Business Talk podcast and author of Vegan Ventures Start and Grow an Ethical Business. The first global book providing success strategies for aspiring and existing Vegan business owners and founder of the plant powered women's network Global Ethical Leadership Community.

 

[00:04:20] Oh, can I Pause you there. Sorry. That must be an old bio. It's actually now called the Vegan Women's Leadership Network.

 

[00:04:27] OK. All right.

 

[00:04:28] There was a trademark issue. So I changed the name. It's called the Vegan Women's Leadership Network. Sorry about that. I thought I'd updated the BIOS ladder first there.

 

[00:04:38] Anyway, better. So well done. She has. Let's see. She's written extensively for niche and mainstream media for 18 years on animal advocacy, ethical business and was a regular Forbes contributor for years specializing in writing about Vegan and plant based businesses. A Vegan of 22 years, Katrina teaches Vegan business owners how to do their own PR and get free media coverage through their signature on through her signature online courses and group coaching program begins in the limelight. A passionate animal advocate, Katrina one, the voiceless, the Animal Protection Institute Media Prize for her article, Speciesism The Final Frontier for Australian National Broadcaster. The ABC is the drum Web site. Her work has been featured in the books Circles of Compassion Essays Connecting Issues of Justice, edited by Wil Tuttle and Plant Power of Women. Pioneering female Vegan leaders share their vision for a healthier, greener, more compassionate world. Edited by Cathy Divine. She lives with her wife Tracey and loves glitter and Internet cat videos. And as I said before, you can find her on W WW Katrina, Foxconn and Vegan business media dot com. So Katrina, before we kind of climb into all of the endeavors that you're currently involved with, as well as a book that I know came out in, I think 2015, I was hoping you could draw us a landscape of where you kind of came from regarding your academic and professional life and your personal Vegan story as it brought you into what you're doing now.

 

[00:06:13] Yeah, sure. So I've always had an affinity with animals, and I actually went vegetarian at the age of 11, although I didn't know the word. I asked my mum what the beef burger was made of that we would eat. And when she told me it was a cow. I was absolutely horrified. And I made the connection between the roast chicken on Sunday and the fish fingers. And so I just said, I'm not eating animals anymore. That didn't go down very well. So I was brought up in class at a working class family just outside of South London in the UK, where I'm originally from. But, you know, I stuck to my guns. It took me a while to get to veganism. It took me till about 1997, 96, 97, to learn about the dairy industry and the cruelty involved in all of that. But once the penny dropped, then, you know, I was all in. And, you know, I've been involved in animal rights activism as well as other social justice issues and in terms of professional career.

 

[00:07:05] For the first sort of part of my earliest of adult life, I basically was involved in performing arts. So my original degrees in performing arts and then around the Yes brand, about the similar time that I went vague and actually I retrained as a journalist. And so it worked on mainstream Masche and specialist trade media throughout my career, freelanced and written all pets on animal advocacy and other topics for mainstream media. And as you mentioned, they had a column in Forbes for a year writing about Vegan and plant based business. So I ran about to 2015 when I wrote the book was really when I tried to meld my I guess my my passion with my profession. And so I wrote the book because there was nothing else on the market specifically for Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs. And I interviewed over 60 Vegan entrepreneurs and waved their insights throughout the book, which is a how to guide on how to start and run a business of any kind to run it on Vegan principles.

 

[00:08:10] Then I decided to start a podcast because I love interviewing people. And once I finished the book, I was like, Oh, I've finished my interviews. I want to carry on interviewing people. So that's why I launched the podcast and then the blog. So I didn't really, to be perfectly honest, I didn't really have a business plan per say. I just kind of I just was drawn to doing these things. And I thought, well, I'll just kind of put them out there and I'll work it out as I go along. I'm not necessarily recommending that as a strategy, although I do know other business owners who have done something similar with different businesses. But that's just the journey that I went on. And then I created the course. I realized people needed to know how to get into the media and do PR.

 

[00:08:47] Not everyone's got a budget to hire a publicist or a PR firm. So that's why I created the online course. And now I do consulting and coaching and just working with my ideal clients, which I love, which are a Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs.

 

[00:09:02] Yeah, it's interesting you so you have this kind of gateway. It is as a young child into the vegetarian life, you know, through compassion and animals. What was do you think it was the same kind of moment of compassion and animals that led you on your Vegan journey, or was there a distinct difference between that and how it impacted? Because you have this unique view of, you know, being able to approach it from a business standpoint, too. And there's obvious relationships and correlations about sustainability that tie into good business measures and things like that. But what was the churn from you into switching from vegetarian to veganism, or was it kind of a natural progression?

 

[00:09:38] I only wish I would've done if I'd have known then what I knew about the dairy industry back when I was a child 11, I would have stopped eating dairy and stopped wearing an and all of it. So it was definitely my I've definitely come from. I know some people. I know you're gonna talk about terminology. I mean, a little bit. But if veganism is about doing the least harm as as is practically possible. You know, in terms of not using, abusing or exploiting or commodifying animals. And that's a paraphrase of the UK Bacon Society's definition back in I think it was around nineteen forty five. So that's basically ice by two veganism as a philosophy, as a way of living, of doing the least possible harm. So eliminating animal products as much as you practically can from your life. So I've been involved in feminist movement and when I was at college, at uni and when I was on an animal rights demonstration, actually about vivisection, about kittens being bred for baby section in the UK. And a lovely school teacher was on the coach of the bus taking us up to this demo in Oxford. And I pulled out my sandwich. I still would you like a Vegemite and cheese sandwich? And she said, Oh, no, I'm Vegan. I don't eat cheese. And I said, Oh, it's vegetarian. Cheese is no animal ran in it. And then she explained to me about the dairy industry and about all these myths of happy cows and what actually happens to cows, you know, the female reproductive system being hijacked and forced, you know, forcibly inseminated babies taken away from. And I was just shocked. And I was I was extra shocked because as a feminist that really, you know, as someone who obviously believes in, you know, women having. Body autonomy. I was just horrified and shocked and I thought, how did I not know this? How did I miss this? You know, I've been involved in and around sort of animal rights for a little while back in the late 80s. But I kind of I don't somehow miss the bacon memo then. So it was very much an ethical decision. And once I knew I was one of those people that pretty much went Vegan straight away. I mean, obviously, there were some things that needed to be phased out gradually but quite quickly. And I was obviously a privileged enough to do that in terms of shoes, you know, switching out the leather shoes. But food wise, it was pretty much I got home and I said to my wife, Tracy. Right. I said, we're now. I said, well, I'm vague. And I said, if you want cheese, you'll have to buy it yourself. I was responsible for doing the food shopping. And we kind of went from there. And I can tell you, it was 24 years ago now. I think I went Vegan. And back then it was it was quite tricky, especially in terms of the cheese. They were tasted rubber back then. So it's been pretty exciting seeing that developments that were going on, but very much an ethical decision for me.

 

[00:12:15] Yeah. And I have your your fellow country mate, Bhavani and I spoke some number months ago about cheese. Actually, I kind of I think I went off on a terror. Just Vegan cheese has been one of those things that in at least in my humble Vegan tenure of under a decade and the Greeks, God bless the Greeks because they were the first people that got, you know, Vegan cheese right for me. And I think it was their perception of olive oil and things like that. But it's over the past five years, it's the change of Vegan cheese has been astronomically to my life.

 

[00:12:46] It's so brilliant, isn't it? And we recently now in Australia, like Pizza Hut and Domino's of Pizzas with the Vegan cheese on. And it's just so nice. So I'm I deliberately have one, you know, like at least a couple of months just because I can I can lie after 24 years, I can finally have pizza with cheese on again. So yeah. And it's just amazing, all the brilliant products that are coming out that are, you know, just so realistic, full of flavor and just. Yeah, it's game changing.

 

[00:13:14] Speaking of products, this is a good gateway into kind of defining some terms. And I'd like to kind of jump right into the hottest one, which is how do you get between Vegan and plant based? What do each. What does each term mean independently to you and how do you define them?

 

[00:13:30] Yeah, it's an interesting one. I wrote a whole article for Forbes on that because it is such a, I guess, a hot potato. So Vegan as always. I think Vegan up until now, until it became I guess started to become more mainstream, more mainstream, started to accept a little bit more, became a little bit more, quote, trendy. It typically always meant, you know, the ethical side of things that you as someone who you know, who didn't eat or consume or where you know, any products that involved any kind of use of animals or animal ingredients, etc. Then when it started to kind of take off, people started to describe themselves as Vegan, whereas actually they were plant based. So the difference really for me in terms of plant based, plant based is when you eat it, it's very much based on food, because generally think about plant based shoes, for example, a plant based fashion, but it's typically what you eat. And it's kind of about you. It's not you know, typically people go plant based for health, for example, or perhaps for the planet. Some people might go plant based for the animals, but typically it tends to be, you know, for your own reasons. And it's very centered around food. So someone could be eating plant based but still wear leather. So that could kind of give a little bit of a differentiation. Now, unfortunately, what's happened is some companies, while using the term plant based to say, oh, it's mainly plants. And that's really frustrating because, you know, for most with plant based simply meant that you don't eat any kind of animal product. But now they're trying to kind of twist plant based a little, which is why personally, I love the word vague and because it literally kind of means, you know, you don't eat. I mean, sometimes people again, sometimes people are using the term Vegan when they mean plant based. So it can be a little bit of a mix up. But for me, Vegan is he knows it's someone who lives by the philosophy of veganism. So, you know, you eliminate animal use, ingredients, products, etc from all areas of your life, whereas plant based is more about eating food. And then of course, there's whole food plant based, which is people who don't eat, they don't have oil or gluten or a whole bunch of other stuff. To me, that's quite different to veganism. And how do you do?

 

[00:15:42] If I look at foods, I always say it's it's I feel like my Whole Foods brothers and sisters are the ones that talk about whether or not it's head of factory and like the Whole Foods people, if it's been industrialized or more than likely going to kind of shun it, you know, anything that had to be extracted or.

 

[00:15:59] Yes. Or processed. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of. Yeah. There are other terms that you or other ways you clarify Whole Foods. It's not really. I mean, I just see I mean, I see a whole mix actually, even on the whole food. Based, you know, like I subscribe to a male to live a plant based meal delivery service and some of the products that they describe as whole food plant based, you know, some of them got like some white rice or some basmati rice in. And I, I get a bit confused about that because I thought only brown rice is, you know, no. So I think, again, it tends to be different definitions. But I guess at one end of the this the stream around that is, you know, like like I say, no salt, no sugar, no oil, no gluten. For me, that's quite restrictive. And I, I don't like whatever people want to do as long as not eating animals. I don't care. But, you know, I will not post photos of my salad or my fruit shake because people know that. And I, I kind of want to get people over the stereotypes of what eating vague and particularly is. So I will post my pizza with its MLT egg and cheese. I will post my cheeseburger from all Vegan, you know, a burger joint, you know, because then people can kind of go, Oh, I can go Vegan, I can still eat burger, I can still have pizza, I can still have a bacon steak. You know, I can have all of these kind of things, you know, be on me. I've just got their new TV commercial out, which is brilliant and I love it. And the burger I got, it just looks like a regular burger. Thank goodness. Finally, you know, it's not some little lentil pâté that we've had since, you know, the whenever 70s and 80s. So, yeah, I'm kind of I will tip an oral poached chocolate cakes like naughty stuff. And it's not all I actually do eat really healthily. If you look to my social media, you would think I only eat junk food, but I don't. But I post that because I want people to know that, you know, they don't have to go from having their steak and chips to only eating salads and lentils. You know what I mean? They can still have their favorite foods. And arguably, you know, no one's trying to claim that, you know, these kind of things are all necessarily healthy. But I would still argue they're healthier than having the animal products, you know, the animal based counterparts anyway.

 

[00:18:14] And the founder of Impossible Burger did come out and say exactly that. You know that as well. It might be processed. It's definitely leaps and bounds ahead of the. Yeah. Alternative. I'm wondering, you your your industry, you help clients kind of define themselves and in addition to, you know, finding resources and getting good PR out and things like that, but it seems like you would do some advising work about really capturing or meditating on what, you know, one's product design and things like that. And you've mentioned this kind of it seems to be an industry based as well as kind of just individual company based. But whether or not people identify with the words plant based or Vegan, some people believe that Vegan is powerful and helpful. Others believe that it's exclusionary. And it's this kind of politicized term. It seems like I've spoken with a lot of Vegan clothing designers and handbag designers and they're very attached to the term Vegan leather because they said plant based leather doesn't actually make a lot of sense, which is funny because they're leather's directly. It's pineapple, the apple leather whose. But they specifically say Vegan leather, usually to get away from PMU, you know, the polyurethane that that isn't sustainable and environmentally friendly. And I'm wondering when you go to advise your clients this this role where you kind of help them qualify and quantify and you begin the PR process with them. Is this a conversation you're frequently having and is it industry based or is it very company by company based as to what term you help them identify with and use?

 

[00:19:46] Yeah, I've got a whole chapter about it in my book, as well as well as writing the article on Forbes, where I expanded on it somewhat. And it really does depend on the business, I always say. And I asked people that question on my own podcast, Vegan Business Talk, why they choose to use the term Vegan or plant based or otherwise and why. And there's no wrong or right answer. It really depends on the company. It's definitely it's not industry wide because, for example, you've got me Kerschner Chinna, who uses Vegan loud and proud. She's got a big tattoo on her arm. You know, she is all about branding and marketing. The packaging is got Vegan up front because she wants to demystify the word Vegan and have it be associated with lovely things. In her case, you know, amazing Chazen and Vegan butter. And then there are others like beyond maids and other brands that specifically don't use Vegan, or they might have it in tiny letters. And that's an option, I think, for products that are package. You can have the word Vegan in very small letters on the back for people like me who want to know it's big and who will look for it. But then you can have plant based, you know, as the, you know, one of the key descriptors. So it really does depend on it depends on a couple of things. Who your market is. So, for example, my wife, Tracy's a clinical hypnotherapist, psychotherapist, doesn't have the word Vegan on her website anyway. She has sheep and cattle farmers come to see her. And depending on what they're coming to see her, she's also a natural path. You know, she's got quite a few of them on to Vegan, a plant based diet. So it does depend on who your target market is in terms of what words use and also as a founder, what your mission is and what you were comfortable with as well.

 

[00:21:20] Yeah, absolutely. It does it does seem like it would be case by case. It's weird, though, as that's changing. I feel like there's going to be even a third term proposed, I think, plant based with vegans. Now, most of the at least the passionate vegans that I know, they they don't like the term plant based because at least in the United States, it's become very kind to fortified. You know, in the 90s, in the 80s, all of these these fortified cereals and things where they were ripping it out of its stripping it of its real content and then just shoving vitamins and minerals back in there and the same things, plant based. You flip over over a package and it's not Vegan at all. You know, they've they've thrown. They've infused it with some kind of a plant based material.

 

[00:21:59] And so, yes, that's that's what I meant when I said earlier about the term plant based is, you know, it's starting to become twisted and hijacked. So. Yeah, yeah. And they could well be. I mean, we're seeing a little bit of not necessarily with food, but plant powered, you know, there's the whole free from movement. So sometimes, you know, we've seen animal free. Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens in terms of terminology. But I guess I mean, for me personally, like for my own business, obviously I love the word Vegan because it's kind of in everything that I do, but everybody's different. And at the end of the day, if it gets people to stop consuming animals, use whatever term you like.

 

[00:22:39] Yeah. That's the goal, right? Yeah. The humane washing in greenwashing. In fact, that has been kind of come up and labeled by I don't know if it's GenZE or the millennials, but I love looking at the sociology behind all of those terms. I want to turn now to unpacking the kind of the three cause of what you do. So first one to unpack what you've gotten into the book a little bit. But I was hoping as an author when you were writing it, you know, I find coming from a family of authors that there's there's two scores, at least in my lineage, and there's ones that couldn't possibly stand to think about the audience because they would never publish. And then there are ones that keep the audience in mind the whole way through. And I was wondering if you were keeping your audience in mind when you wrote it. And if so, if you can pull out five or six of the main core tenants that you really hoped the take home would be.

 

[00:23:28] Sure. Well, I definitely have my audience in mind, so for this particular book. So it's it's my first book on my own. That is it. I have coauthored and I've also coedited a couple of anthologies in a completely different field. So I've been published by mainstream media, by mainstream publishers, traditional published in the past. For this particular one, I basically because I wanted to move into this field, I started hanging around with entrepreneurs who were asking me how do I get people to get into the media? And then I thought of the people I really want to help Vegan entrepreneurs. I must be a book about that. And there wasn't. So I thought. Right. I guess that's a sign from the universe. I need to write it so because it was a very practical book. I very much had my audience in mind. So my audience was mainly aspiring Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs. But I also wanted to have enough in there for existing Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs as well. So for those who haven't yet set up a business, you know, it's got all the stuff about how to set up the structure, what your Y is, you know, staff. And then there's also marketing, PR and branding, which is helpful for anyone who's starting out. But also a lot of the existing Vegan entrepreneurs. I've found those particular chapters quite helpful. And also, I waved in as I did over 60 interviews with Vegan entrepreneurs in all different sectors from across the globe. And I waved some of their insights throughout the book. So so I very much have my audience in mind. And that the aim really is to I guess one was to inspire more people to start a Vegan run business, because basically, I think I say in the beginning in the intro, my mission with this book is Vegan World Domination One Business at a time, because I think as an animal activists, which I do consider myself, I think it's so, so important we've got to have Vegan products easily and accessible both financially and physically so people can get these products. We've got to make it as easy as possible for people to be able to buy their Vegan makeup, skin care, fashion, food, etc.. So that was one of the key things that I wanted, was to inspire people, to give them ideas. So that's why I interviewed quite a few of the Vegan entrepreneurs, because some people would say to me, I want to start a business, but I'm not sure what kind. So that kind of Gibson's my ideas. And then basically the book is really kind of a step by step guide for people to get going and to at least avoid some of the pitfalls. I think as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, of course, you're always going to make some mistakes. But I think when you equip yourself, you know, with as much information as possible, you can at least avoid some of the key pitfalls, too, you know, to go ahead and start a business and run it on Vegan principles. Yeah, it was your advice applicable to people with products or products and service, all products. And so I wanted it to be very universal. So whether you were making products in any sector, you know, any kind of product, not just food and also. Yeah, for people who are offering services as well. So there's quite a range of interviews with with a mix and mix of entrepreneurs from from all different sectors, service providers, product makers, etc..

 

[00:26:38] Did did the book give birth to the online course or coincide or was it. How did that like how did that all play out timeline wise?

 

[00:26:49] Yeah, I think I sort of touched on earlier. I really didn't have a plan, to be honest. You know, sometimes you just get a gut feeling that you've got to do something. And I just knew that I had to do the book. And I gave myself a deadline of a year from conception to publication. So that was a really full on year. And once the book was out, I mean, I think I did put like a thing at the back a bit like, you know, you can contact me for a consult, but I hadn't really built the business around it. And so the podcast came next. And then the Web site came and I started producing, you know, some extra content, some blog posts. I took some extracts from the book and turned them into a blog post to kind of put them out there. And then I, I, I thought, right now I'll add an online course in there. So that's the kind of the timeline. So it kind of, I guess, really stemmed with the book. Then the podcast consulting and coaching, which I've added some of the coaching packages of, actually added quite recently. But I've been doing the know the consulting and I've done some done for you PR services as well. So do you still, though, it's kind of happened organically and I guess it sounds like it's working.

 

[00:27:59] So that's good. Did you do one consulting? Do you still take clients on on a one on one or is it turns me.

 

[00:28:06] Yeah. Yeah, I do. So basically, if somebody does a lot of free information on the website, on the blog and in the podcast as well, people.

 

[00:28:15] So they get a you know, it's basically the podcast is a free training tool really, because, you know, entrepreneurs that I interview were very generous in sharing their challenges and their strategies to success. There is a lot of free information there. But if someone wants. Taylored, one on one advice on an as and when basis, so there's no long term commitment, they can just book like a one off hourly consult with me. We do that by Zoome video. And then I will take on a limited amount of one on one coaching clients. If it's if it's a fit because that's obviously a lot more intensive where I'm working with them, I might be looking at their copy, giving them no strategy and tips and advice and we get on regular calls and stuff. I may introduce them to some of my connections, you know, try to get them. I don't really did the dunk for you PR in terms of the coaching services, but I've recently got, for example, one of my clients, a regular column on Vetch economist because she's a specialist in a particular field. So, yeah. So that's that's kind of what I do at the moment. And then there's the online course and plus the new project, the Vegan Women's Leadership Network is is something I'm doing as well, which is a membership, global membership based ethical leadership community for Vegan women to help them become leaders. So we have live webinar trainings, just the members, the premium members for that. So what a busy.

 

[00:29:38] It sounds like it. What about female identified or non binary individuals? Can they join the Vivienne's women literacy course?

 

[00:29:44] Basically, anyone who supports it can join. It's very inclusive. My partners involved trends, activism. She's a trans woman, so I'm very, very inclusive. And I've written that's the other areas I've published in and written about. Right, for the gay press. And I was one of the first journalists in Australia to write about non binary people and sex and gender diverse people. So, yeah, it's a very inclusive network.

 

[00:30:08] Yeah, it sounds like it. I can't wait to look into it further. And I like like I said, I like the new name even better. Getting into Vegan business talk. Your podcast. So when you. I like to talk to other podcasts. I think it's fantastic because in the States in particular, but I find globally still I consume podcasts, you know, versus wait. But I think that it's and it's still the Wild West. It's still very you know, it's anything goes. Any time, any subject, any format, people can start off very formal and within a season become very informal. It kind of spans the gamut. Do you have a structure to yours? How do you cure rate it? How many times a week or a month did you release it? And when you started out, did you have any of those things figured out?

 

[00:30:54] Yeah, it's evolved a bit over the years, I will say. I mean, I started there. I think it is about 2016. So it was. Yeah, early 2016, I think. And the book was published late 2015. That was a few months in between. I think initially I kind of went, right, I'm gonna do this. And I think I kind of, you know, was doing it weekly. As time has gone on, I'd shifted it to fortnightly, which I know Americans don't always know what a fortnight is apparently. So it's every two weeks. I just I didn't know there wasn't a term in America. And then sometimes it's gonna allow kind of some podcast host to have seasons. And I think that in a way that's quite clever, like you do a season and then you have a pause. But I've kind of gone away through I've kind of had a couple of hiatuses, like I had one recently when I was launching the Vegan Women's Leadership Network, and now I've come back to it. So I'm aiming to put out show every couple of weeks in terms of the structure. I'm actually I'm actually changing that a little bit as well. Previously, I would prerecord the bio on my own and after I'd done the interview and have the bullet points and then I would also have some news at the end. But from going forward, it she from the next interview that I'm doing, which is very shortly, I'm changing that slightly. I'm gonna do some it's similar to what you're doing where I actually introduce the guest on the show itself and I'm missing out the news because there's so many. Back when I started the podcast, there wasn't a lot of Vegan news out of Vegan business news outlets particularly. And now there is there's like a plethora of the mainstream media covering a lot of Vegan business news. So I'm missing that, BEYDOUN. And that's going to actually be less work for me to do. And the real value, I think, is in the interviews, you know, people typically say they can kind of get the news anywhere, but the real value is in the interviews. So basically, my my my criteria is that businesses ideally would have been running for about three years. And the reason for that is because this particular podcast is giving other big and entrepreneurs insights into your challenges and success strategies that don't typically interview startups unless they've been in business and run their own business in other areas. And the reason for that is I think it can be quite easy to start a business, but maintaining it over a period of time is a lot more challenging. And I think you you've just got more to give and more to share when you've been running your business for a little while. So that's my key criteria. But other than that, you know, as long as the business, the whole brand is Vegan completely bagan. And you've been running it for around about three years. I would typically interview. Entrepreneurs in all sectors, service providers, product makers, sometimes have specialists, some as well like specialist marketing or CEO, etc., people on to share. I will always try and source those first from the Vegan community. But I did. I think I had one woman on who wasn't Vegan, but she was a. really mega food scientist that I had on about three years ago. So I will occasionally have non Vegan guests on if they have know if I can't find their expertize anywhere else. And I feel like they've got a lot of value. The Vegan business owners can use. So, yeah, that's my structure at the moment as is. I'm just kind of shifting it a little bit going forward.

 

[00:34:09] And is your audience. Is it intended for Vegan business owners themselves or for everybody to educate?

 

[00:34:16] It's mainly for Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs, both aspiring and existing. Sometimes I might have. I've heard interview quite a few investors. You know how to get funding. It's a very practical podcast. Like, I really kind of we really kind of focus on, you know, what were their challenges when they started out? What are the challenges now? How are they handling them? What marketing strategies are they using? How is it funded? If they've got investment, how did they get investment? It's very practical. It's literally like they're almost like little mini training courses almost, but they're done in kind of interview format. So it is very practical. So I'm not sure that anyone who's I mean, look, if someone's got an inkling or, you know, perhaps in the back of their mind and they're nowhere near getting started yet, but they know that maybe one day they would like to start a Vegan business and run a business and run on Vegan principles, they might tune in, but otherwise it really is for. Yeah. Aspiring and existing Vegan business owners.

 

[00:35:14] Nice. Absolutely. All right. I wanted to quickly unpack the Vegan Women's Leadership Network. So you've just kind of it sounds like, you know, you've just kind of built, launched, renamed it rebranded maybe. Tell us what it is. What is the network for? I mean, that you've clarified that it services everybody who's who wants to be included. But what does it do? What is the network about it? Does it meet? What's its functionality, all of that?

 

[00:35:41] Yeah, sure. So basically I pre launched it in the middle of a pandemic. So pretty much during lockdown. I I've been working with a business coach and because I knew I wanted to do something else in addition to baking business media. And so it kind of we came kind of full circle as I have been involved in the women's movement and feminist movement. So we kind of came up with this idea and it was gonna be a physical event in London, actually, original plan. But then obviously Cobbett 19 happened. And so I thought, right, I'm going to look prelaunch. I'm gonna see if there's. I knew it had to be sustainable because in the past, I've launched projects out of pure passion, but they haven't been sustainable. And I end up getting burnt out. And then, you know, things come to an end. So I knew that this had to be sustainable. So it's a paid a membership based global ethical leadership community for Vegan women. And it's to provide them with resources to help them become leaders in their field, whatever that looks like for them. So it's not it's for big business owners and entrepreneurs, but it's also for people who work in the corporate sector, work in a job, working entertainment, sport, any sector work for NGOs. And what we provide. So I put it out there. I put the prelaunch out there just to see if it was staged. I thought if I get a certain amount of women by this date, then I'll go ahead with it and get the, you know, the website and membership site. Bill and I got the numbers. I was pleasantly surprised even during lockdown, you know, when people were losing their jobs left, right and center are still able to attract, you know, a number of women who said, yes, this is so needed. This is the perfect time to be launching this. So got the Frontin website and the membership POOLESVILLE. And essentially what we have at the moment, we have regular virtual meet ups via Zoome, and that's proved to be really popular because the women are really getting to know one another. And this collaboration is happening left, right and center. People are really supporting one another. And then we've got live webinar trainings on a number of topics around kind of leadership, self leadership, quite broad there. And we've got the front facing website. We have got something else coming up, which I can't say quite at the moment. But that's gonna be, I think, quite exciting. And yeah, and we're we're looking we're also working with VegFest UK. We've partnered with them to elevate women's Vegan women's voices.

 

[00:37:58] So providing, you know, Vegan women with opportunities to present and to speak. And I'm hosting a couple of panels with Vegan women. One's on Bakan Women in business. One's on how to find your voice as a leader in the bacon and animal advocacy movement. So it's really about supporting Vegan women, elevating them, providing them with resources and connecting with them so that they can collaborate.

 

[00:38:22] That sounds exciting. And it's just in its infancy. That sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. Will you after there is add and add a cure? Will you go to back to opening up to like a physical event, or do you think you'll keep it virtual just because this is the space you're in now?

 

[00:38:41] Well, it's an interesting one, because, I mean, I do like virtual because it is like this community is very global. Yes. The majority of women at the moment from the US. But then there's plenty of women from the U.K., all different countries in Europe, Asia Pacific. Women are joining. So I like the virtual obviously is is good because it's easy in some ways. You just kind of get on your computer and get get women together. But I'm certainly not ruling anything out. I mean, I say I love I do love to go to to go back to my hometown of London. I love to go to New York. So, you know, I am certainly not ruling out some kind of physical event, either a stand alone event or being part of a bigger show, because, you know, it is nice to just kind of hang out with people and physically meet them. So I think down the track when we you know, I'm not sure when that will be, but I think we will do some kind of fiscal events as well.

 

[00:39:36] Exciting. All right. Well, we're almost running out of time. Katrina, which is to save a million questions, but I want to get to fire questions. And I neglected to tell everyone in the roadmap. But we have a lot of you writing in and asking us questions. And we have a team of people that have put them together in different categories. And so I'm going to we've combined a lot, but I'm going to just get a few that people who write in who want us to ask people of your expertize in specific about the Vegan world. And one of the first ones is what is the number one mistake you see most Vegan businesses making? I think this was more. We had a bunch of questions about ones that have products. So products across the board. But what do you feel like? What are the number one PR mistakes that Vegan businesses that you run into make, not putting aside a budget for marketing and PR?

 

[00:40:24] I see a lot of Vegan businesses putting a lot of time and effort into their product, which of course you need. Do you want to get a good quality with it? Is a product out there or if it's a service, you want to make sure you're giving value to your clients, whatever you do. But a lot of them, I'd say a second mistake would be underestimating budget required. I think you always need to at least triple what you plan to spend. Whether that's, you know, for machinery, equipment, etc.. But put some kind of budget aside for marketing and PR. Yes, you can do a lot organically, of course, and everyone jumps on social media and what have you, and that can be be good. But I think it's always good to have some kind of budget, whether you use that for paid ads or for PR or for some kind of digital marketing. I think that's really important because you can have the best product to the best service in the world. If no one knows about it, then you got a business.

 

[00:41:13] Okay. And along the same lines, you've had a lot of people write in and say, what is the number one thing that a small business, small Vegan business can do on their own to really help their bottom line with PR like this, some bad technique or a tool or posting or anything along those lines?

 

[00:41:29] Yeah, I think learn how to do your own PR so so that you can actually pitch yourself to media. So, you know, certainly, yes, you can hire a publicist or a PR firm if you've got that kind of budget, which is several thousand dollars a month. A lot of small businesses don't have that. So learn the tools and techniques and tips. You can get that information for free on the Internet. Obviously, you know, little plug, you can do my course, but, you know, you can find that information out on how to pitch to the media and get into, you know, find out what target media is best for you and and how to approach journalists, because that can really help, I think, getting media coverage. And, of course, having a presence on social media. Make sure your way, your audience is and show that behind the scenes stuff and tell your story. You know, see, I'm not just kind of every post is by this, by this, by this, but showing people who you are. Brand storytelling, I think is really important nowadays as a founder, don't you can no longer afford to hide behind your business. You know, you're no longer the faceless founder. You need to be there front and center. Let people know who you are. And remember, not everyone will love you or your product. And that's okay. You're not trying to serve everyone. Nobody can serve everyone. You're trying to attract to you the people who who feel passionate about you and your brand and will want to support you.

 

[00:42:51] Right. Right. And I will say to kind of further that plug that I did appreciate your I'm you to take three minutes, maybe two and a half minutes on YouTube, kind of explaining Vegan, Vegan business, media, like the course and what it means in the limelight begins in the limelight and and what the course was about. And a quick synopsis that really imparted a great deal of information. I felt like what you were going to give your people, including interface, you know, and and how there's question and format, but it's this more loose for the calendar online and things like that. I think it did a good job of answering that for anyone who's thinking about it. And you can jump on it seems great. Absolutely. We do a lot of people right in asking if I'm OK. A lot of going along the same lines. Social media do end this kind of delineation between founder and. Yes, I don't think the younger generations think that that needs to or even could exist anymore either, which I agree with you, I don't think it can or would a lot of people wonder if they should be linking up their business and their their personal accounts. This kind of communication between the two people talked about, you know, linking one to the other or probably closing one down. There was a lot of questions as to what you would advise on that level, because it's a Vegan business and they've been a Vegan individual.

 

[00:44:08] Yeah, it's an interesting one. And again, I think it comes back to the terminology question that you asked, and there's it's going to be different for everyone. So, for example, I do know people who have got their own personal, but they have a personal Facebook account and they've just got a handful of literal family and friends like people that they know. And that's just for sharing their personal stuff. And then they've got their business page, which is totally separate and that that can work for them. But then like someone like me, I've got my personal Facebook. Everything I post is public and I've also got my various pages. And I think when you're, I guess, a personality, for example, then. I think what you can't assume that people won't find out what you've posted on your personal side. For example, if, say, you were running a Vegan brand and then you posted a pay, I don't know, the weekend you or a plant based branch to send in the way. Can you post a picture? You've been trophy hunting or whatever on your personal Facebook. That's obviously going to be, you know, a complete mismatch. And just because it's on there, like someone may still see it on screen, grab it. Same if you're going into groups, for example, say you're hanging out and Vegan groups on Facebook, for example, as you as you want your personal account, then people will screen grab it, even if it's a so-called private group. So I think you need to be wary of or be aware of what you put on your personal social media. Don't assume that what you put on. So when your personal stuff won't somehow be connected with your business because it can be so, just be wary. But having said that, I do think it's nice for people like if you are willing to put yourself out there. It can be nice for people to say, oh, look, here's, you know, so-and-so in their family and their cat or dog, what have you. But just be aware of that. My rule of thumb is don't post anything in public, whether on social, on your website, that you wouldn't be happy for anyone to say in five years. Now, five years and 10 years time, like I am so glad. Social media didn't exist. It's for example. So that's my kind of rule of thumb. You know, be comfortable with what you're sharing, but be aware that, you know, it could be connected with your business.

 

[00:46:23] Yeah. And finally, we had a lot of people write in and I have my own personal take on this. I'm interested to hear you have to say we've a lot of people talking about sponsorship, and I'm assuming they also mean partnership. But regarding their brands and other this kind of, you know, uniting to be a stronger voice together, there are people asking for your personal business advice in regards to reaching out for a sponsorship or partnership with a young Vegan business.

 

[00:46:50] OK. So this sponsorship or investment, I'm not sure whether they mean I'm not quite sure what they mean about sponsoring it is typically a Vegan business would sponsor like a nonprofit, for example. So I don't know if they mean kind of help, financial help or investment or fundraising.

 

[00:47:10] There's a lot of advice in the States right now. Kind of casually whispered, I would say through the grapevine that I'm not sure I can hear a voice that's actually saying it. But this idea of becoming a partner or a sponsor. There are new platforms. In fact, there's new startups where, you know, they're joining people together, particularly women and women, identified businesses and things like that, and kind of bringing two disparate groups together to have a greater reach, if you will. So though, you know, there are these companies that are matchmaking, like cosmetics with a new Levi's, you know, company and bringing them home. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. And people that are now hearing that and writing and going, what does it all mean? I get it. Should I be doing this? Do I need to reach out for sponsorship? And we've had a lot of people ask, you know, what's the terminology around and ask like that. So if you had a client saying, listen, I want to reach out to a partner or ask someone to sponsor me or let's just say partner up with somebody to encourage increase your reach. How would you advise they go about that?

 

[00:48:11] Yeah, I think you've always got to look at what is in it for them, not just what's in it for you. A lot of the I find with with small business owners and I find this particularly around PR as well, is like they're like, oh well, I want free publicity for my products and services. That's not a journalist's job. And the same with a partnership. If you're gonna go to someone and say, right, I would like this, I would like us to partner because I want this, this and this. You've got to say, well, what's in it for them? And that's particularly if you're then approaching someone who's already got a big platform and has already got a big market. You know, why should they help you? What's going to be in it for them? So I think that's a really important thing. What can you offer them? Why would this partnership be a positive thing for both? So I think that's my advice, particularly with a larger company. So, you know, if you were looking to partner with a larger company and they perhaps haven't got into a plant based or they just kind of dipping their toe in it, you know, you can kind of go in there and say, look, our product is innovative. You know, this is what we know about the plant by sector. And this is how I feel it could work. This partnership could work for both of us. When I wrote the book, I've got a whole chapter on collaboration, because what we're seeing, certainly with Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs is they've been collaborating for years and continue to do so. So, for example, there was one there were three Vegan shoe brands that all decided to share a store or a booth at a particular trade show or event. So they pooled their resources. Technically, they're all in competition. You know, they're all Vegan shoemakers. But obviously they that they're that different, you know, different products, slightly different. But they were technically all in competition, but they pooled their resources, bought this booth, and then they each staffed it at different times and promoted everybody's brands. Sometimes you might get a bacon cheese partnering with a vague, you know, some kind of cracker company to do a promotion. We've certainly seen a lot of that and in lockdown, actually. And I think Bhavani, who we've mentioned from the Green Line, which is a Vegan eatery here, has done that as well, and as well as a Vegan chocolate brand here. So they partnered with another company. I can remember what they were. It was like a savory and a sweet. So people would go and collect. They could order and then go and collect their savory and their chocolate treat together so that that can work to be it. It's all about the mutual benefit. And I think that's really important. So definitely focus on what's in it for them, rather them. I've got this great product on it. Money on eight marketing. I need support. Can you help me? You know, that's not gonna fly. Because they're gonna get lots of people that always think about what's in it for the other person.

 

[00:50:46] Yeah. And I think that's it's. So I think it's true for any good business measure, you know. Yeah. Business meeting to kind of look at the other point of view before you go in for the ask, the elevator pitch is really important. And and I think we all need to be very concise and very clear about what we're doing, you know, as as business owners or anyone kind of walking throughout today's world. But in that kind of gets lost in translation, the concept of like really listening and and ascertaining prior to meeting with somebody, you know, what they could possibly use you for as well.

 

[00:51:17] And then honing that pitch a bit. Yeah. Our final area of inquiry is kind of looking at the future. And this is I love this question. The further we get into this year, because it's changed so much for people on a daily basis. But as far as the Vegan industry, particularly someone like yourself, because you have this this bird's eye view of so many different companies that you're helping and advising and speaking to and all of these different areas and venues that you're involved with. And you and I were talking off the record a little bit on the record about. Now, hyperspeed, you know, the Vegan industry world seems to be in the past five years, 10 years, as opposed to 20 years ago. The 50 before it, I've written an article saying, you know, for the 50 before the last before the arts, it wasn't even a microscopic dot as opposed to what's happened in the past 10 years with just IPOs alone, economics, all of that. And then with that comes to follow suit of culture, all of these things. But for you personally. What do you do? You see a continuing with hyperspeed. Do you disagree with me on that in the next five years? Where do you see some of the biggest changes happening within the Vegan world? What are some of your predictions?

 

[00:52:28] Go to hell. Yeah. Cool. I loved it. I think I definitely agree with you. I think it's going to continue along with the hyperspeed that you mentioned, because of various reasons for human health, for sustainability, and also more and more people coming aware of animal welfare. I think we're seeing that. But we've got major investors. I mentioned on my website, I've got a whole list of Vegan and Vegan friendly investors, and I keep having to add to it. You've got Mioko, who's got no Kerschner of Yoko's. He's got investment from Ellen DeGeneres, and her wife, Portia. You know, we've got big name celebrities, Bill Gates, you know, really kind of big names who are getting on board with this even. And then, of course, you've got these big corporate companies who not don't necessarily have great ethics in terms of animals, people or planet, but they're kind of jumping in on this plant based brand. And they're buying up Vegan brands as well. And that can be, you know, see, there's pros and cons up with the pros, all the bacon products then get way more distribution and become way more available, you know, in places like Wal-Mart and, you know, these to make them more accessible. So I think we're kind of seeing that happening at the moment. We're kind of seeing these kind of partnerships, though, bedfellows that you wouldn't normally have seen. You know, all those years ago. I think potentially what's going to be happening and I know there's people working in the space is that they is that they're creating a vague and economy so that at some point we won't necessarily have to partner with these big brands or we will have an impact on how these big companies, corporations operate. We're almost like force them to be ethical because consumers will demand that they're not just going to be demanding cheaper products, but they want to know where the products came from, what the ethics behind the brands are. I think we're going to see more nations. We're already starting to see that. So in terms of, say, Vegan Italian, Vegan Indian, Vegan Mexican in terms of eateries, I think we're going to get even more and more niche. And I think and cheeses, I mean, we're just we talked about the earlier we're just at the cusp now. You know, if you look in the supermarket, how many dairy cheeses there are. So there's a lot of room in this category to provide animal free versions of all the different dairy cheeses. You've got companies like Perfect Day that are making dairy from bacteria.

 

[00:54:45] So they they're replicating the casing that is in regular dairy, but they're creating it from yeast and bacteria. So I think we're seeing a lot of high tech three day. We're seeing 3D printed steaks, for example, Vegan steaks. So I think the technology is going to continue and we're seeing, you know, billionaires, you know, investing in this kind of technology. So I think, yeah, we're going to see more IPO shows. I think it's just gonna get bigger and better. I think as well, the fashion space is really starting to come into its own. The big in fashion, partly as part of the overall sustainable fashion, the move away from the all the push to move away from fast fashion beauty. We're seeing celebrities when they are launching their beauty products, they might not be Vegan themselves, but they are producing their products as big and by default because it just makes sense. So, yeah, I think we're really kind of seeing Vegan tourists. I know of at the moment of this interview were in, you know, still in Cobbett 19. But, you know, there's Vegan tourism, Vegan travel. You know, I think veganism is is literally a Vegan interior design. That's another growing market as well. You know what you're using in your home. It's not just about eco friendly and natural and sustainable. It's also people want cruelty free now. So that's another growing market. So I think it's really exciting. I think that paganism is pervading everything. And to create a world where what we buy, what we consume is good for people, good for animals and good for the planet. And I. I love you, too.

 

[00:56:20] And I completely concur. I love the areas you're getting into, too. I'm gonna have to bring you back on because it's a huge passion as it. Yes. As a Vegan parent for Vegan children and I Globe-Trotting yearly and Vegan, I just don't there's not enough Vegan travel blogs for me. I think that there are some, but like people really speaking to people so much and happy cow. And I'm like, there's got to be more, we need more of them, you know. So I think that it's it's true and it's burgeoning and it's growing and it needs to be kept up to date and. It's an exciting time, and there's so many different industries, like you say, the fashions, a big one for myself as well. You know that the beloved daughter of England, Stella McCartney, is one of my most favorites. And she was one of the first in the major industry, I think, to actually come out and just say it's it's humane, it's right and it looks better. It's all those things. And I think that once we have more artists and people like that that are coming forward, really marriage, the ideas, it will just continue to fact track it all. I completely agree with you and I'm excited to venture into that future with you. That's going be. Absolutely. Thank you so much for meeting with us today. I really appreciate it. I know you're incredibly busy and I appreciate you taking the time and giving us some of your candor and information.

 

[00:57:30] It is a pleasure. I'm really great to connect with you and find out more about you. And it's been lovely chatting with you.

 

[00:57:36] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we have been speaking with Katrina Fox. She's a journalist, author, founder and PR consultant. You can find out more about her, all of her services, her books, her online courses and her podcast on both of her Web sites. W w w dot. Katrina Fox dot com as well as w w w Vegan business media dot com.

 

[00:57:57] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe, eat clean and responsibly and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

 

Speaking with Jane Velez-Mitchell; Social Media Journalist, Activist & Author

Today I am SO EXCITED to be speaking with Jane Valez-Mitchell. Jane is the founder/editor of JaneUnChained News, a non-profit, social media news network reporting on animal rights, veganism, health and climate change. With more than 70 volunteer contributors around the world, JaneUnChained’s videos are seen by millions. JaneUnChained.com's daily vegan cooking show via facebook.com/JaneVelezMitchell features some of the best vegan chefs in the world. 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with social media journalist, activists and prolific author Jane Velez Mitchell. Key points addressed where Jane's endeavors with her nonprofit social media news site, an educational platform called Jane Unchained dot com. We also discussed her documentary titled Countdown to Year Zero and how its narrative uniquely links animal agriculture to climate change and action items one can take to participate in the cessation of the ecological crisis the world is facing. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Jane Velez Mitchell.

 

[00:00:43] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Dot, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:40] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Jane Velez Mitchell. Jane is a social media journalist, activist and author.

 

[00:01:49] You can find out more regarding everything that she does, as well as what we speak about today on her Web site. Jane, unchain dot com. That is J and E, you n c h h i n e d dot com. Welcome, Jane.

 

[00:02:03] Thank you for having me, Patricia.

 

[00:02:04] Absolutely. I'm excited to unpack everything that you're doing and have done with your company, your documentary and all of your other endeavors for those of you that are new to the podcast. I will proffer up a bio on Jane to give everyone a good foundation. But prior to doing that, a quick trajectory of the line of inquiry in which this podcast will be based. Today, we will first ask Jane to briefly describe her academic and professional background that brought her to her current day endeavors. Then I want to turn to unpacking. Jane, unchain dot com. It's a news and begin animal rights Web site. I'm going to get into questions of curation, obviously, when it was launched, logistics around the launch partnership, sponsorships, things of that nature. And then I'll turn to unpacking the documentary Countdown to Year Zero, in which she directed all of the endeavors within that. And some of the response that the audiences have had with that will then turn towards our rapid fire questions. These are questions we've taken from you, our audience, who has written in and asked us to ask experts such as Jane about the various endeavors and areas of expertize that she can answer best.

 

[00:03:14] And we'll wrap everything up with advice that Jane has for the future of Vegan warriors, as well as some of her predictions as to where certain industries in the Vegan world are headed. As promised, a quick bio on Jane. Jane Velez Mitchell is the founder and editor of Jane and Jane News, a nonprofit social media news network reporting on animal rights, veganism, health and climate change. With more than 70 volunteer contributors around the world, Jane and Chanes videos are seen by millions. Jane and Jane, dot coms daily Vegan cooking show via Facebook dot com. Jane Velez Mitchell features some of the best Vegan chefs in the world. Jane Unchained has launched a new daily New Day, New Chef, a popular Vegan cooking series streaming on Amazon Prime and public television stations around the nation. She's documentary Countdown to Year Zero now on Amazon Prime. It lays out the animal agriculture's leading role in climate change and how we must transition to plant based culture or face ecological apocalypse. It won best documentary feature at the Studio City Film Festival and Jane won for Best Director documentary feature at the Culver City Film Festival. Jane Unchained has also partnered with software developer artist Wave to create plant based Nabor dot com, which is a beta testing set to become an AP later in 2020.

 

[00:04:41] This AVP, the app, will connect vegan's with the other vegans in their community and encourage the vegan economy. We Jane is has one for Genesis Award commendations for from the Humane Society of the United States for reporting on animal issues. Veggie News named Velez Mitchell. Media Maven of the Year in 2010. For six years, she hosted her own show on HLN. HLN, CNN Headline News, where she ran weekly segments on animal issues. Previously, she was a news anchor and reporter at Cakehole TV in Los Angeles and WCB s TV in New York. Her first documentary, Anita Velez Dancing through Life, won a Graciella to work in Two Thousand and one. She's the author of four books, including two New York Times best sellers, and she is active in the LGBTQ community and lives in Los Angeles with her five rescues for dogs and cats. So, Jane, I am so excited to kind of unpack everything that you're doing currently and really climb through some of your projects, possibly not all of them, because you're too prolific. But before we get to that, I'm hoping you can draw a narrative of your early academic and professional life that led you to launching Jane. And tain't.

 

[00:06:03] Well, I grew up in midtown Manhattan, directly across the street from Carnegie Hall. And my mom was from Puerto Rico, from the island of Vieques, which is part of the Puerto Rican Commonwealth. My dad was Irish American. He was an advertising executive straight out of madmen with the pipe rack in the hat and the whole outfit. And he had a ad agency on Madison Avenue. So he was truly a mad man. And they met my mother was the last of the board bills. They were both born in 1916. And my mother formed a successful  dance troupe when she came to New York from Puerto Rico called Anita Velez Dancers. They danced all around the hotels of the Caribbean, North America. And when she met my dad, because her her agent was my dad's best friend, Charles Conaway, who happened to be Jeff Conaway's dad. The the actor. Anyway, they met. They hit it off. They love to dance. They would stop the show. It was how they put it. When they started dancing, everybody else just formed a circle and watched them dance. And they were married and growing up. I actually thought I was vegetarian because when my mom was a child, she had a pet pig. She thought she had a pet pig. She thought she had a companion the way we have dogs and cats. But it turned out the pig was a food pig and was slaughtered. And my mother fainted when she came home from school and saw the carcass and she shunned meat from that point on. My dad was very meat centric when he met my mother. Corned beef and cabbage, etc.. But he changed. So we were pretty much a Pescatarian household growing up. So I went to various schools in New York. My mom wanted me to be a performer in some way, shape or form. But she was a nice stage mom. She wasn't one of those meanies. And I graduated from Rudolf Steiner, which is small private school, went to New York University, majored in broadcast journalism because I had been on television a couple of times. I'm pretty much the same person I was back then. If you look at my high school yearbook picture, it's all about animal rights and protesting. And so I have been interviewed a couple of times. And even though my initial desire was to be a syndicated columnist, I just switched it out to broadcast journalism. When I was looking at the form and said broadcast journalism, I said, OK, I'll do that. And I graduated from NYU. My first job was in Fort Myers, Florida, as a reporter anchor, a place I still love to this day. And in fact, I've gone back there to protest because a nearby county, Hendry County, Florida, had decided they wanted to become the bio farming capital of the world, which means breeding and accepting monkeys from foreign countries for laboratory experimentation. We didn't put it entirely out of business, but I think their idea of becoming the bio farming capital went out the window because we had protests, court fights, challenges. We went to town and just as a little aside, they called us radical animal rights activists. And the funny part was I was staying with this lovely lady, Madeleine Duran, an old Fort Myers right near the Thomas Edison Summer Home Museum.

 

[00:09:20] She's in her 80s. Whereas tennis shoes and actually wears a little hat with a little orange on it. So when we bought it, brought everybody, the media came out and that the commissioners were saying these were radical animal rights activists and about 40 old ladies in tennis shoes showed up from Fort Myers. I pointed to the to the senior citizens and I said, here are your radical animal rights activists, all in your homeowners from Fort Myers, Florida, who love animals. Anyway, then I went and worked in Minneapolis for a couple of years, and I worked in Philadelphia for a year and a half at WCAU. Then I got a job in New York, which was my hometown, right down the block or up the block from where I grew up. I grew up on fifty seventh and seventh, and the CBS Broadcast Center is fifty seventh between 10th and 11th. So I literally had come back home.

 

[00:10:10] That was my goal. Worked there for eight years. I was exhausted. I was the weekend anchor and a weekday reporter and you just literally go from one crime scene to the next disaster. And after about eight years of that, I was like, I want out. Friend of mine had gotten a job at Cakehole TV, which was owned by the Disney Studios. They had taken it over and they were hiring all the staff at once and they needed an anchor. They suggested me I got the job and I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I moved out here to L.A., which was Oh Way is my favorite place.

 

[00:10:42] I had been to L.A. a couple of times prior with my parents once when I was 13. And I remember we had a great time and parents didn't argue with Sunny. I like this place is great. And then I had been also out to L.A. when I was in college to visit my best friend who had moved to L.A. She took me to the beach and honest to God. We sat on the beach at a spot where I look back and I said, I can't believe people get to live on the beach. And guess what? That's exactly just by total accident where I live today. So I always felt like my heart was in L.A. and when I got the job at Cakehole and we were at the Paramount Studios and I had a great parking lot, I had a parking spot on the Paramount Studios, which is. You know, everybody wants a great spot. A parking spot, the Paramount Studios. Honestly, it was it was to this day, I would say the most fun job I've ever had. It was great. You've got you'd walk to work and you'd see people dressed as Star Trek. Captains walking in the other direction. So after about eight years of that excuse me, 12 years, I was 12 years at cow and then they had imagined change.

 

[00:11:52] I was no longer an anchor. I said, OK, I'll just wait out my contract. And basically, after five minutes, a case CBS. Harvey Levin, who is now the head of TMZ, had started a show prior to that called Celebrity Justice. And he was a good friend of mine. We used to go karaoke ing together.

 

[00:12:12] That was our thing when he was a reporter at CBS that I was in a great cake. And so he says, hey, I'm starting to show celebrity justice. You want you, would you? I'm looking for reporters and I can't find any. Or something like that. I said, What about me? You said you'd be interested. Heck, yes. Everybody warned me against it. Like it's a tabloid show. You'll laugh. It'll last 13 weeks. Then you'll never get hired again because you're gonna be tabloid. I said, you know what? Life short. Harvey's the smartest guy I know. If he thinks it's a good idea, I'm going to take a shot. Suffice it to say, it lasted.

 

[00:12:49] About, oh, gosh, three or four years, I guess. Anyway, I ended up covering the Michael Jackson trial in Santa Maria, California. It was the biggest global trial of that particular time period right up there with some of the other biggies that we all know. The whole world was there. I was on Larry King Live the night of the arraignment, the night of the verdict. I was on Nancy Grace pretty much every night as the reporter. Then that that show wrapped the trial, wrapped the show wrapped. And I got asked to fill in for Nancy Grace on HLN, which I did for a while.

 

[00:13:27] And then.

 

[00:13:29] What happened was, I believe I was told that Glenn Beck, who was the host of prior to Nancy, stormed off the set or had a hissy fit of some sort and marched out you don't do on TV if you want to come back. They wanted to replace him quickly. They call me up and they said, Would you like a show? I said, yes. I was sitting right here drinking a cup of coffee, wondering what am I gonna do with the rest of my life? I wasn't free, Dad. I was just like, what's next?

 

[00:13:55] I like to let the journey of life take me, take me here, there and everywhere, like Niagara Falls anyway. I said, yes, I'd like a job. They said, OK, we'll call it ISSUES with Jane Velez-Mitchell. I said, great, because I got a lot of issues and I'm a recovering alcoholic. Twenty five years sober. I'm gay. I'm a Vegan. Perhaps the most controversial of all. Not anymore. Anyway, when I got the job, I literally they said, OK, do the show today from L.A. and come to New York. It was Friday this weekend. That's exactly what I did. Once again, the job was two blocks from where I grew up. Fifty seven and seven. This was Columbus Circle. So I moved right back in with my mother, who had a huge rent controlled apartment right across from Carnegie Hall. So I went back to my old bedroom and I was there for seven years, six years on the show. And that was that was great. It was a gift. And what I did when I would ask, see, I started to do animal rights news at Celebrity Justice. Cut me off when you think I've said enough because I could go on all day.

 

[00:15:03] Starting with the issue on HLN, CNN. I thought that that was when you started bringing in the focus on the animal rights. You started at Celebrity Justice.

 

[00:15:13] Oh, yeah, I did start at Celebrity Justice. What happened was I don't know if you've ever seen the show TMZ, but Harvey stands in the front and goes that other than all the producers have to come up with ideas or whatever, it was exactly like that. He got the idea because that's what we used to do. It got ungodly hour of like 7:00 a.m. ET Dale when I lived in Venice. Do the math. It was up early and so we'd have to have a couple of story ideas and he would go, where's the celebrity? Where's the justice? And it was stressful. So all of a sudden I went bingo, because I was an animal rights activist. At that point I was Vegan I thought I go to these great PETA galas. I love Peta. I'm going to call PETA up. They know all the celebrities. I started work with the guy, PETA, and he would get celebrities who would normally run in the other direction from us because I literally chase celebrities down the street with my own little camera and. And the publicist, by the way, this is not an ankle. This is not a police monitoring device. This is my exercise, my arm exercise anyway. Well, when we'd call, the publicist would just click what celebrity? So it was very hard to get celebrities to participate in any way, shape or form. But these celebrities who cared about animal issues were so passionate about their animal issues, they would literally push their publicist aside and talk to me about whatever their passion was. I even interviewed Robert Redford about his passion for saving the whales from the horrors of military sonar. Imagine. Hollywood royalty speaking to moi, who is with a tabloid show. But that's how much he's a great guy. Wow, what a nice person. That's how much these celebrities cared about their animal issues. So I was doing that. That's how we got a couple of Genesis awards. Then when I got the job at CNN Headline News, I said, would you mind if I did a little animal segment once a week, like really innocently because I am innocent. And they said we don't we don't see a problem with that.

 

[00:17:10] Well, maybe this was going to be pet adoptions. I did hardcore animal rights for six years every Friday. And we also introduced some of the of the. But the budding Vegan entrepreneurs like Josh Tetrick, who had just started just Mayo, and we put him on the air and a lot of these people were able to use their segment, take that copy of that segment on CNN Headline News and go out and pitch their projects. So I felt very blessed. I will always think CNN for allowing me to do that. They were true to their word. They let me do it. They never stopped me. And then after I left, I had a good run and the show wrapped up. And then I moved on to create a nonprofit that focus exclusively on animal rights and veganism.

 

[00:17:59] And is this Jane and Jane dot.com that we're speaking about now?

 

[00:18:04] It is indeed. So this is an interesting platform.

 

[00:18:07] It's done what's, I think, a most latter day survival platforms do. You've got a lot of news and you've got a lot of resources. And I'm wondering, I first want to talk about how you carried it. What is the editing process? Do you have a team of people? How do you decide which news makes it on to Jane Unchained? What do you decide gets featured? How is all of that done?

 

[00:18:31] Well, I'll tell you the genesis of it. As after I wrapped the show and I was in New York, I said, oh, I can go to protest because I was a journalist for my whole life, with the exception of a few years where I wasn't fully employed, but I was still working freelance. You can't really go and participate in protests. So actually, my girlfriend at the time was still a dear friend, Donna said. Yeah. Jane, your unshaved. You can go to protest. You can protest. And I was like, Yeah, Jane, Jane. It just had a ring to it. We laughed about it. I remember were walking down 9th Avenue and we were laughing, get Jada Jade and. So I started going to protests immediately, I noticed there was a missing component, A. It was freezing out at the time. People are rushing to get indoors, so they're not really stopping to study it. B, people are shivering and doing all these incredible things, but they're not documenting what they're doing. Remember, this is too late, 2014, 2015. So really, the idea of documenting everything hadn't become ubiquitous. And so I said, OK, here's my niche, because actually an executive at their old cable channel had said, you're obviously passionate about animals. You need to focus on that exclusively. And I said, OK. Good advice, because I always ask people for advice when I'm about to go on the next leg of my life adventure. And so I said, OK, now I found my niche, that little segment that I did every Friday. I can do it all the time. And I can I. They gave me my social media, which was very nice of them. I started putting it on Facebook. I started putting it on Twitter. And soon enough I realized there's so much happening here that I can't do it alone. And it gradually evolved into a Facebook life, which means you don't have to edit for hours and hours and hours. You can just do what I was always a live reporter or host. And we also then decided to expand it. And now we have 70 contributors around the world going live at all sorts of events, protests, VegFest conferences. And we also now have anchors who do their own shows on Facebook. And so we have animals in the law, which is Krista Krantz, a Vegan super lawyer. She's been voter super lawyer. She's Vegan from birth based in Florida. We have Lisa Carlyn who interviews doctors who are Vegan nutritionists and doctors. We had some of the top doctors. We have Lindsay Baker, who does animal rescue stories. We have Chef Babbette who run stuff I eat here in Inglewood. She's an incredible vegan chef, entrepreneur. I don't want to leave anybody out, but we would be here for an hour listening. Everybody is involved. We've got a great team of people, all of whom are working for free. This is a nonprofit and otherwise known as a money pit. I said people used to ask me before I became an OB.

 

[00:21:27] How are you going to monetize it? I was like, oh, how did they monetize the Underground Railroad?

 

[00:21:33] Then they would just look at me and turn on their heels and walk away because they couldn't handle it in our society. People don't even understand if you're doing something that's not motivated to make money unless it's a nonprofit. I realize that I was like, why does everybody keep asking me for my angle? I don't have I have an angle. Yeah. Save the world from extinction. But apparently that's not good enough. So I decided to make it a nonprofit, and I'm really glad I did. Because people need clarity on what? On what's what it's all about. And also, we have to raise funds to do this. This is not it's certainly cheaper than running one of those other networks, but it's not 100 percent cost zero. There's a lot of costs involved.

 

[00:22:16] Yeah, I think it's interesting. I do think it's some of the areas you've touched upon, too. And there's just such an incredible void.

 

[00:22:24] And speaking to, for instance, the show that you have where she's speaking with Vegan doctors, you know, I've had a ton of guests on. And one of the areas that longstanding vegans will still talk about are, you know, finding a pediatrician or an O'Bagy y and it's comfortable with one being Vegan. You know, there's this and just this. It almost seems on real like a surreal moment of lack of information with professionals that we ascribe to health, such as M.D. when it comes to diet and the Vegan nature of health and things like that, or the health nature of veganism. So. And I think those are crucial points to have and need to be continued on. What is the future of it? What is the future of Jane and Jane? What is the next one to three years, five years look like?

 

[00:23:09] Well, we're constantly pivoting and you never know what's good news or bad news. So, for example, when the quarantine happened and we had all these people all the time going live at Cubes of Truth where they hold up the signs and the monitors showing animal abuse at VegFest at all these things that were not happening. So immediately I said, oh, well, I saw within one week all of our content had dried up because except for lunch break life lunch break, like we do every single day since we started it at the advent of Facebook, like we've never missed a day. I'm talking Christmas, Hanukkah, New Year's, New Year's Eve, Fourth of July, Election Day. We never miss a day. Kind of like the post office. Ale's sleet. Snow will not stop us from our appointed rounds. And post office isn't that bad. Don't, don't don't knock the post office. We need that post office them to vote. And so that we still have going and we still continue to do. It's going to happen today. Just happened already. It's 130 here. It's twelve, thirty p.m. Pacific every single day on Facebook. Dot com slash. Jane Velez-Mitchell. So where we have almost nine hundred thousand followers so. I thought about it and I thought, well, cable news networks have anchors, right? That's what they have, a slate of anchors who talk. Let's do the same thing. We've got all these great people who are super articulate and talented. So we just reached out and sure enough, we got everybody stream yard, which is a great platform to go live on. And next thing you know well, Jed's a millionaire. You know, everybody was doing their own shows and having a great time doing it. Now, you asked a little bit about curation and editing. We are not investigative journalists. And we do have a code of conduct. Anybody can read it. You can go to Jane and Jane dot com. By the way, please sign up, get our biweekly newsletter. We are not in a position to be investigative journalists because when you're alive, look. Investigative journalism obviously takes months, even years, sometimes many years. So we're more appealing to the consumer. We do not. When you're live, you don't have an opportunity to vent and do all the things, the lawyerly things that would normally be required for an investigative story. So I tell everybody. Don't pretend to be Woodward and Bernstein, OK? We don't need that. What we do need is bringing people to these events and being their eyes and ears. So if there's a pig vigil, for example, which we go to regularly, and they still are happening with social distancing now in downtown L.A., right near downtown L.A., where it's heartbreaking to see these baby pigs six months old going into the slaughterhouse and we go wiv and we bring people there. We're not playing Woodward and Bernstein trying to make allegations of specific against any company. This is happening at slaughterhouses around the world. It's a global tragedy. What we do is try to be the eyes and ears of a consumer who might be about to pick up that package of bacon. And they see that and they go, wow, that that's really horrible. I don't want to be a part of that. I consider myself a kind person. I consider myself a loving person. I'm going to make a different choice. So we really are appealing to consumers more than anybody else. Everything we're talking about is a consumer issue. If consumers stopped eating these products, dead animals and the breast milk of cows and the menstrual period of chickens, in one week, our entire society would transform. We would stop accelerating climate change. If nobody ate animals, we'd stop destroying the rainforest. That means we'd stop destroying the habitat of wild animals. That means we'd stop participating in wildlife extinction. And because animals eat so much more than they produces food. More than 70 percent of the soy produced in America, we'd stop contributing to human world hunger. We'd stop contributing to human diseases like heart disease like that prior to Cauvin, kill one out of every four Americans and is still killing plenty of Americans, except some of them are also dying from Kolbert or and or Koban. So for all these reasons, if we just took the power back with our food choices, we could change the world. So that's why we talk to the consumers. Everything we talk about meat, dairy, pharmaceuticals is a consumer issue.

 

[00:27:58] Yeah, the purse strings hold the power. Right. And some of the change. It kind of leads us into unpacking the documentary Countdown to Year Zero.

 

[00:28:07] I will tell you as a viewer and someone who grew up in the documentary film industry and I was the most moving part for me was maybe 15 minutes in. Then you've got Dr. Salish, Rao Rayle. He said very simply in a way that I think only he can. He said, you don't try to change the corrupt current culture. You build a better one. And you bring people over to it. You know, it was then I am butchering it. That's not a direct quote. But this concept of and I really appreciate people that set up frameworks and this concept of stop not trying to fix the current broken structure, but rather developing a new format in which people can envision belonging and want to belong. Because, you know, if you can get through this life, another quote that someone on your show said, if you can get through this life, you know, living well, eating well and not hurting anyone with the same quality, why wouldn't you? You know, this concept of just constantly perpetuating something because you were born under parents that didn't know better. I mean, all of these weird forms of hereditary nature and things like that being dispelled all at once. And what I like about the documentary is that it has a very distinctly different voice than all of the really mass major heavy hitter ones out there. And I want to get into how you decided that you were going to come at that, because you have things like conspiracy, what the health, all of these, you know, game changers, big ones that came out. But you took a very much a more microscopic view with this documentary. You kind of developed the entire ethos around, you know, the attachment between veganism and the future of our planet. And and I think a lot of other documentaries had that muddled into their narrative. But they really didn't pass it all out as clearly as you did. What made you decide that you were going to take that direct narrative or did it unfold as you were filming?

 

[00:30:11] Well, we didn't really start out to make a documentary. I had made one small documentary before about my mother, Anita Velez, dancing through life because she had thousands of incredible photos of her and her dance troupe back in the heyday and the last days of vaudeville. And there were just all Averitt costumes.

 

[00:30:33] You could you couldn't you couldn't miss a documentary like that up, especially with my mother, who was incredible character and very ahead of her time, she was doing yoga. Ortiz, she was the first hyphenate. She kept her name and added my father's name. She was Anita Velez Mitchell.

 

[00:30:47] And that's why I added my mother's name to my name. I was born Jane Mitchell. But in tribute to her and also to fully express who I am, I use my mom's name as well. And so I wasn't really thinking about making a documentary. What happened was somebody asked me, well, what happened? Was I. Met, talked around. I was at the rowdy girl's sanctuary in Texas at a one of these VegFest and. This guy gets on the stage and it was a big, big grassy area. So not that many people were paying attention and there were all a bunch of food booths back there. And so I was sort of like by myself alone with my live camera getting the next speaker. And what he said just blew my mind. And I said, this is what I've been waiting to hear my whole life. He said very matter of factly, we are going to create a Vegan world and we're gonna do it by twenty, twenty six. You know, you have to have a deadline to get it accomplished. We know why we have to do it. All we need to find out is how we do it. And we I'm a systems analyst and I'm an engineer and we have methodologies for doing that. And that's how we put a man on the moon. And that's how we increased Internet speeds so rapidly. And that's how the Internet went, something when we all got our first computers. Those little weird things that look like spaceships, we didn't know how to use them. And now can we live without this for four minutes without panicking? Rapid social change can and does occur. And so he was actually instrumental in the development of the rapid acceleration of Internet speeds. I hear this guy. I'm going. He's a genius. I don't say that about very many people. I do not have a bumper sticker on the back of my car. This is my two. I will mix's are Mensa members. They are very smart, though. But this guy is a seriously. He's a genius. And so I was just taken with this idea. It's like I remember reading about the women who stop the troubles in Northern Ireland, who some trial was shot on a grassy front yard and some woman came out and said, enough, we are going to end the troubles. And, of course, all the men her. Guess what, they ended up doing it and winning a Nobel Prize. And they had said, you can never achieve something unless you can express what you want. If you can't even express what you want to achieve. How the heck are you going to achieve it? So when he said that flat out, we're gonna create a bigger world, we're gonna do it by twenty, twenty six. I was totally taken with him. So I got involved in his campaign. Climate Healer's Dawg and Vegan World. Twenty, twenty six. And then he sent out an e-mail. It said, I'm going to Costa Rica. I'm going to look at a former cattle ranch that has been reforested and we're gonna show whoever comes along. How reforesting can occur very rapidly, because that's part of what needs to happen when we eliminate animal agriculture that's eliminating most of the farmland. It's only like a fraction that's actually growing food that we eat like vegetables. It's mostly food that's fed to farm animals. So we get to reforest all that foreign land. Then that begins to sequester carbon. That will begin to reduce the temperature back to maybe 200 years ago. And we as a species will survive. Trees sequester carbon, they absorb carbon. That carbon makes the earth harder. The world's harder. So I decided to go down there with my partner at the time, Donna. We said, let's go. Let's hurry up. And then somebody who I work with very closely said, why don't you take? Because I have. I have usually issued 90 percent of stuff, but I do have two good cameras. So once you take a good camera with you and shoot some of it. So, of course, having the attic mind, I can't shoot a little bit. You know, I've got to always shoot everything. So I had my camera in their face the whole time and he was so gracious about it. It's just like nothing ruffles. And I'm shooting the people arriving at the airport and the rioting and everything, he said. Anyway, at the end of it, we actually made a like a new constitution, we created a declaration for the Vegan world and what needs to happen. And there were just, interestingly enough, twelve of us. So it was kind of like this mystical kind of thing, like here we are together and I travel at twelve of us, creating like a constitution for a new world so that the planet can survive. It felt very heavy. And I got all the debating about the Constitution or the declaration. And so when I got back, I was like, what do I do with all this? Then I went to North Carolina to speak at the Hilton Head VegFest. And that was at the time, way before. This is a couple of years, several years ago, where, you know, VegFest, I try to support small VegFest because those are the important ones to Hilton Head. Boy, that's great to have a beachhead at Hilton Head. Right. A beachhead of the organism. So I went down there, lovely people. And this editor and videographer, Jeff Adams, who lives in North Carolina, called me and he said, you know, I really feel like in North Carolina, I don't have a lot of Vegan friends and I'm feeling kind of alienated. Can I come down to Hilton Head and videotape your speech? Because I was giving a speech there. I said, sure. So we all went out to dinner afterwards and I said, Do you still feeling alienated? And you want to project? And he said, Yeah. I said, OK, I'll put you to work. Come to Vegan world. Twenty, twenty six. I'll buy your plane ticket. You go to Viðga World twenty twenty six in Arizona. Mesa, Arizona. And you film it all. I said because I'm participating in it and it's hard enough for me to do the live videos, much less do love videos and shoot a good video camera and participate. So he flew in and he shot the Vegan World twenty twenty six conference where people came from all around the world to do exactly what Dr. Rao said. We know what we have to do. We just need to know how to do it. We all created questions of what needs to be answered. He didn't call it problems. He called it questions that need to be answered in order to create a Vegan world. So we had all sorts of people there, doctors and lawyers and scientists and cryptocurrency. I mean, it was just like a huge group of maybe 200 people with a lot of varying backgrounds. We all wrote questions on the board. Then we divided it up into maybe a dozen different topics like agriculture, finance, workers, you know, those kinds of things.

 

[00:37:28] And then he creates committees and those committees will create subcommittees. And he explains. This is exactly how they do engineering projects. They create committees and subcommittees. So he's moving full steam ahead on this. Anyway, after that, he shot all that. We had pretty much what we needed for a documentary. Also, I have tons of footage that I shoot constantly and some of the best moments of the documentary or lie videos that are contributors shot Leive one. To me, one of the most emotional moments is when one of our contributors in our book or at Jane and Jane Page fastens Roach happened to see a truck filled with cows driving on the road. And she he pulled over, she pulled over and she just started videotaping these animals and talking to them. It's gut wrenching. It's just it brings tears to my eyes. You couldn't catch that if you decided to hire a crew and go out. And now we're going to look for trucks. No, these moments, the power of why video is that you capture moments that are completely spontaneous, that are not staged in any way, shape or form. The same thing with some of the visual moments. We had moments where we were seeing a pig thirsty drinking water and then turned right to some woman who's crying and talking about people need to see this. These were really emotional moments that were captured alive that we took and we added to the documentary. I mean, I think that considering we did this in one year, pretty much the whole thing. I'm used to doing things quickly. I totally respect people who take years on a project like the game changers. And it's spectacular and it's game changing. But we all have to contribute what we know how to do. I was a day of air a news reporter. I, I just I have to turn things around quickly unless I have a personality change. So we shot it. We edited it. And with one year within a year, it was on Amazon Prime.

 

[00:39:27] Well, I have to say, that is auspicious. Maybe at the very least. And at the very most, it's definitely just it's it's being very latter day.

 

[00:39:37] You know, GenZE is the non filter generation. You can't put a filter, you know, photograph up without having a 20 year old house. And I love that because they speak very much so to the mantra of my heart, you know, with this this desire for a platform for authenticity and honest rhetoric and engagement and transparency. And that, I think was part of the moving part about it, the length. None of it was confined by some of these other magistrates that controls other documentaries, even good ones in the industry. You know, this this it did feel shot by obvious different mediums and end it. You'd have to either plan that or just have it happen. And so I think it's very interesting that they narrowed the narrative, curated itself just by a year's format and and your hustle and bustle to put it together. I love it. I think it's one of the best ones out there. And I like its scope. Again, the imagery that you're talking about, you know, she is actually apologizing to the cows when she reaches through the crate and says goodbye. Those you're right. You just you can't write that. And I think a large problem with some of Dowagiac documentary filmmaking is that it's written, you know, and there is that the hypothesis re needed to head and you didn't do that. And so the narrative really does just write itself with a realistic and honest tenor. And I think that it's it's delivered in immeasurably. So I encourage everyone to get on Amazon Prime. And it's a figure, a prime member. It's free. And if not, it's pennies on the dollar.

 

[00:41:04] So what you're going to gain in education, Jane, we're running out of time, but I'm going to move to our rapid fire questions so that we honor our audience members and talking to you about you in particular. We have some very directed ones for. We've had people we reached out to people on our mailing list and we give them this some trajectory of who's coming on. And so let me give you. OK. So the number one thing that we had I tried to take. So for everyone listening, I hear you. But I'm trying to condense a bunch of your questions into one with a lot of people that wanted me to ask you directly about the KFC and the Burger King, these substitution meat alternatives that these major offenders and problem causers of the industry. Do you support the efforts that they switch because any animal saved is a good idea, or do you think that they are the propagators of the problem and still shouldn't be sponsored? How do you view that?

 

[00:42:00] Well, I think that's an age old problem. But let me say this beyond me. For example, we did an entire tour with Ethan Brown, the CEO and founder. It's right here in El Segundo. He's a vegan. He's making a completely plant based product. And he went public.

 

[00:42:18] So I don't know where the bad guy is there.

 

[00:42:21] I mean, and and as this his not competitor, his associate at another company, Impossible Foods CEO, pointed out, just because it says process doesn't mean it's bad for you. It's much better than dead animals. It doesn't have cholesterol because plants don't contain cholesterol. It doesn't have hormones, antibiotics, all these other things that animals bring with them. Also, it's a completely pure product that's untouched by human hands as it's manufactured, unlike meat, which is produced obviously in concentrated animal feeding operations. And then these animals are slaughtered in slaughterhouses that are riddled with corona virus. And where are the workers who tens of thousands of tested positive are sweating onto the meat? OK. So there's obvious benefits there as far as looking at, for example, beyond meat burger or an impossible burger at a fast food joint. The way I like to look at it and honestly, the first time I've ever been in a Burger King was for the B Army burger, the impossible whopper. That was impossible. I mix them up a little bit, but that they're my two, you know, Burger Biondi and impossible. But these are just boxes. OK, these are corporations are are not people. I mean, they can be led by a very dominant personality, but they're not people. They can't be changed. Who pays the price for the purity of us? For example, suing because a Vegan burger might have been cooked on a grill that had also grilled meat and some vegans did sue. I believe it was Burger King and the suit was thrown out. Who pays the price for that purity? Animals? Yeah. We don't want to be an exclusive club. We want the world to be so Vegan that the word Vegan doesn't even need to exist, that there needs to be a code word for Cardus and that you go into a restaurant and the menu is one or two percent Vegan. Well, I don't engage in magical thinking, just like I don't think the virus is just going to disappear. I don't think we're just going to magically one day wake up and I'll be Vegan. It's a process and we have to open the door. As Jean Bauer says, to accept everybody wherever they are on the journey. Very few of us were born Vegan. I wasn't born Vegan. So it was about learning. That doesn't mean I'm not for confrontation on for peaceful, nonviolent confrontation. In cases where it's necessary. But, guys.

 

[00:45:06] We have to get into the major institutions. If we don't get into the major institutions, we're gonna be marginalized. We can get in there and we can change those institutions. I've gotten calls from people, unnamed executives in major, major food companies who will tell me. Wow. This plant based me is coming here. Send your folks over there. There are people in these organizations that want to help. If we just demonize them and say we're not going to deal with them, they're very powerful. OK. So what we can do is convince them it's in their self-interest to convert to plant based. McDonald's could be a 100 percent Vegan company if it wanted to be. And it should become that because some very powerful companies like Woolworths no longer exist. Do they want to be the walrus? Or do they want to be the veggie girls of the future? So we know that they can convert.

 

[00:46:03] The question is consumers need to prove it to them. That means we need to support those products when they appear in those institutions that we may not love. That's my personal, Ben. OK.

 

[00:46:16] Interesting. Yeah. I wasn't sure you were gonna go that way. I like it in countdown to year zero in the documentary, as well as other tidbits of you on YouTube in places you've kind of had this rhetoric about that I find very integral and fascinating regarding the differences between generations and marketing to them and what the marketing to generations now consisting on social media means that they are no longer beholden to old stereotypes and things like that of marketing enterprises that relay horrible information.

 

[00:46:50] And we had a lot of people write in and ask, what is the best utility for social media and getting the word about veganism out there. Like, what is a good action item for the average person who just wants to help the Vegan cause?

 

[00:47:05] Here's a great action item. Every time you make a Vegan meal, take a pretty photograph of it and post it and post a hashtag. You could post boycott me. Skip meat plant based party. I love Vegan. Whatever you want, whatever you want to post, because there's all those hash tags are all circulating out there. It takes a second. You make your food, you post it. This is the most powerful tool we have. This is a network. What's a network? And that work is a production company with a distribution pipeline to an audience. Everybody who has a phone has a Facebook page and Instagram page, a tick tock page. Look at what Tabitha Brown accomplished with one tick tock video on making carrot bacon, 12 million views. A show now with the Ellen Network.

 

[00:47:57] I mean.

 

[00:47:59] I do. And by the way, I really want to urge people to watch our cooking show on Amazon Prime, New Day, New Chef. It's a new day. You can be a new chef. Please watch it. Write a review. It's very successful. Watch it with people who are not yet Vegan and recommend it to people want to go plant based. We have a lot of fun. Every time we turn on the blender, we dance.

 

[00:48:22] Epic, who who's hosting that?

 

[00:48:25] Me. And we have a lot of celebrity co-hosts. Nice. New Day, New Chef.

 

[00:48:32] On Amazon Prime. They're your best days. No question that we had we had a lot of people right in around this topic as well. And there's a lot of people looking at launching nonprofits, a lot of entrepreneurs that want to get involved in starting a nonprofit based with a Vegan tone or ideology behind it. And we had people ask, what are your top pieces of advice? And beginning off with a nonprofit with a Vegan focus.

 

[00:49:00] Well, realize right off the bat, it's a lot harder than you think. Oh, I am one of these people. I just want to go live. I wouldn't be on camera. I want to go shoot videos. Paperwork. Paperwork. Paperwork. Paperwork. And it's important. You've got to do the paperwork. So create a system. So we have people who help us and thank God. But it's complicated and it requires attention to detail and setting up a system and being organized. So this know that there's that part of it. And I would say do it. I mean, that's really the the only thing that I would say was a little bit once I got into it, like, overwhelming. But I've set up a system and I try to adhere to it and I ask for advice. So we just got a great attorney on our board. So that was wonderful because she can give us a lot of insights into how to do everything her as best as we can and as pay attention to details. But do it, do it and get started and try to figure out how to make it support itself, because there's expenses in just having a nonprofit board of directors insurance and the accounting and all the other things that you might need. So there's it's not free. Let's put it that way.

 

[00:50:29] No. What do you do you think the sponsorship or partnerships are both a collection of both. How would you advise someone head into, like, solving some of that difficult financial aspect?

 

[00:50:41] Well, that is probably the biggest issue. And I know everybody's asking right now for all the many nonprofits. It's a high class problem in the sense that, for example, 30 years ago, there were maybe three farm animal sanctuaries. I mean, there was. Farm Sanctuary. The the the biggie we have animal place that I think was founded in nineteen eighty nine of Woodstock Central. I don't wanna leave anybody out. Indro Local. There's a lot of great sanctuaries, but there were not that many 20 some years ago. Now there are like hundreds if you include myco sanctuaries and all of them need to support themselves. So we've been I've been thinking about when I do work and just associate in whatever manner, whether it's a a rescue of animals or whatever, with nonprofits that are sanctuary based. How can you make yourself self supporting?

 

[00:51:34] You have to think outside the box. You have to be creative.

 

[00:51:37] Let me say that one of the sanctuary started something called goat to meeting. I mean, sanctuaries are hurting now during the pandemic. They rely on people coming to visit. They created a goat to meeting. You can Google go to meeting where people can have a zoom and they invite a farmed animal at a sanctuary to participate. They basically put a camera in front of a farmed animal. It is a success. He had to hire more people. That's what I mean about thinking outside the box. Now, we don't want to turn those sanctuaries into petting zoos now, but there are ways to make it creative. Without that, zoos obviously need to go away. They need to either shut down or turn into sanctuaries. Zoos are designed for the better for the people. Sanctuaries are designed for the benefit of animals. But there is a way to make these sanctuaries intriguing enough, whether it's a theme or a value added in terms of maybe concerts or things like that, that where the animals are perfectly protected, they're not exploited in any way, but that they can support themselves. That's a big challenge. But I think if we think creatively, like go to meeting, it's great. I think those are the kinds of solutions we need to come up with.

 

[00:52:59] Absolutely. I agree. I had that creative thought. I hadn't even gotten into that. But sanctuary in a support is a big one. And you're right, with the pandemic, it's it's a rough situation. Well, Jane, we are out of time today, and I'm depressed because I have a billion more questions. And I went by your book, so I'm going to have to lure you back on in a few months and see if we can unpack some more of your work.

 

[00:53:20] I love it. And by the way, one last thing I'd like to say, I have a cup of coffee every morning and it's brewing good coffee and a percentage of all their profits goes to animal sanctuaries. So right there, when you have your Morning Joe, you can order for brewing. Good. They deliver right to your door. And that's how we're going to keep that Begoña me going. Every single thing we buy is a political, environmental, moral. And, you know, it's a choice that affects our world. So I just picked up the coffee and I thought I'd end with that.

 

[00:53:55] And it's absolutely true. You have a million choices towards veganism and fighting that with them. Consumerism a day. I truly believe it. Thank you so much for your time. And I appreciate all of your candor and your information.

 

[00:54:09] Thank you. It was fun, was a great conversation. Thank you for everyone listening.

 

[00:54:13] We've been speaking with Jane Velez Mitchell. She's a social media journalist, activist and author. You can find out more about everything we've spoken about as well as the documentary.

 

[00:54:23] It is countdown to year zero and find out all the information regarding her news and all of the projects in her endeavors on Jane Unchained dot com.

 

[00:54:34] Thank you so much for giving us your time today. And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and clean and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

 

Speaking with Elena Theis; Creator of #Vegan Ventures

Today I am chatting with Elena Theis. Born and raised in Germany, Elena traveled the world extensively before she decided to settle in Berlin. She left a successful career in online marketing and went on a trip to Hawaii in 2013 that changed her life for good and marked the beginning of her vegan journey. Today she is dedicated to promoting plant-based and cruelty-free living around the globe as a vegan writer, artist and coach. Elena is the creator of #VeganVentures - Plant-based around the world, a vegan travel blog which also features occasional recipes.

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with author and creator of the Vegan travel blog, hashtag Vegan Ventures, Elena Theis, Key Points addressed where Elena's world travel and expertize developed within that travel. Regarding Vegan life both in Berlin and the world over. We also discussed Elena's point of view on the Vegan scene as it is in Germany today, as opposed to five years ago. Stay tuned for my wonderful talk with Elena Theis.

 

[00:00:33] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertise and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

 

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.

 

[00:01:33] And today I'm excited to be talking with Elena Theis. She is the creator of hashtag Vegan Ventures. It is a Vegan travel blog. You can discover more about it. And Elena herself on w w w dot Vegan hyphen ventures dot com.

 

[00:01:47] Welcome, Elena.

 

[00:01:48] Welcome. Hello.

 

[00:01:50] You started to unpack everything that you're doing. You've written a couple of books as well that I'll kind of try to pull into the threads in the conversation regarding the rhetoric of hashtag Vegan ventures for everyone listening, who's perhaps new to this podcast and broadcast, I will offer a quick roadmap of the trajectory in which we'll base our inquiry out of. And then I'll also give you a quick bio on Elena before I start asking her questions. So the roadmap for today's podcast will we'll look at unpacking Elena's academic and professional background and then we'll also look at her Vegan story as it's interwoven or not within that previous inquiry. And then we'll look at the logistics around Vegan ventures, unpacking that the who, what, when, where, why, how, when it was founded. All those good things. And then we'll look at the ethos of that site. Its intention, Elena's intention for the future with it, the goals, the audience that she's approaching and speaking to and the efforts that she hopes to make with it. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice or future work that Elena Theis's seeks to endeavor regarding all of her work. So, as promised, a quick, short bio on Elena before I start asking her my questions. Born and raised in Germany, Elena traveled the world extensively before she decided to settle in Berlin. She left a successful career in online marketing and went on a trip to Hawaii in 2013 that changed her life for good and marked the beginning of her Vegan journey. Today, she is dedicated to promoting plant based and cruelty free living around the globe as a Vegan writer, artist and coach, Elena is the creator of hashtag Vegan Ventures, a plant based around the world. Vegan travel blog, which also features occasional recipes as if you can ambassador. She shares her lifestyle and recommendations on social media, as well as on the Vegan platform. A billion veg, which donates one dollar for each roo, review to animal sanctuaries and cruelty free products. Molina holds an M.A. in Mass Communication and Media Arts from Southern Illinois University, a coaching for transformation certification from the leadership that works and is also and is a licensed realtor in Germany. She's the author of several books, including Shampoo Thoughts on Happiness and Tag a Nasha. This is going to test my German Derice Vineet. I probably butchered that, which is soon to be published in English as hash tag a Nasha. The journey begins. It's a n a. S h. The journey begins. So know I'm excited to crawl through. I have read your original. Well, one of your several books. Shampoo. Thoughts on Happiness. And I'm excited to kind of climb through that with you as well as what you're doing with hashtag Vegan ventures. But before we get to that, I'm hoping you can draw kind of at a platform or description of your academic background and early professional life that brought you to the point of launching Vegan Ventures.

 

[00:04:45] Sure, I'll be happy to. So, yeah, as you mentioned, I gather a master's degree in mass communication from southern Illinois back in. Oh, my God. 2005, I believe it was. And after I decided to move back to Germany to be closer to family and started working for a really small advertising agency, like one of those things, you know, you're out of college, you get the first job that you get. And that's how it went.

 

[00:05:14] And one day, however, a Google recruiter found me and offered me to work for Google. So back in the day, I didn't think about it too long. And I accepted the job and I moved to Dublin and started working in marketing for Google and. But realized quickly, I'm not the kind of person that's gonna be very happy in a big corporation. So I left that job, moved back to Germany and work for what was at the time, Germany's biggest social network. That was before Facebook took over the world, actually, where the biggest platform and I headed the sales department, sales and Partnerships Department there.

 

[00:05:58] Yeah, I spent pretty much most of my traditional professional life and online marketing and sales to some extent, and also at some point realize this can be it. It was a fun journey, an interesting journey. But I came to the point where everything I was doing seemed to be missing something. I realized I wanted to make a difference in this world with this lifetime that I have. So. A process started that took several years, actually, but it started with a thought. With this wisht of, you know, doing something meaningful for the world. So I started venturing out and got a couple of certifications about different things and finally decided to leave that corporate world and then traveled on my own.

 

[00:06:53] So what was what do you cite as some of the impetus? It sounds like, you know, it was a journey, the coaching for transformation, certification and things like that kind of coming into play.

 

[00:07:03] But and your book, Shampoo Thoughts on Happiness, kind of starts to climb through, you know, a lot of the the main axioms or montreaux, if you will, of kind of this idea that I think has shaped a lot of what you're doing with your future endeavors following that. But you talk about mindfulness and frustration. There is, you know, unemploy. You have a period underneath a description or neith that where you stayed, you were unemployed and you were telling people that it was your intention to stay that way. It sounds like you kind of crawled through this journey slowly. But do you have any specific key point in your life that pushed you towards it, or was it mere unhappiness that made you desire something more? Or was there ever any point that you were introduced to something or an incident that happened that started the journey? And was this when you started thinking about Vegan life?

 

[00:07:58] To the first part, yes and no, I mean, there was underlying unhappiness, but I wasn't aware of that. The real trigger, the major event that triggered this this quest for something more was actually I had a miscarriage in 2008. It wasn't a planned pregnancy, but I had just arranged myself my life, my ideas around the thought of having a baby. And then I had a miscarriage. So my entire life changed completely. Within a couple of weeks, twice, first in one direction than in the other. And that for me, was really like my whole foundation shattered. Everything that had mattered before just didn't matter anymore. I mean, I had a successful career. I was making a lot of money. I had all the glory. Fancy names on my resumé, but I just didn't care anymore. Nothing mattered. Yeah. So that was really the. The starting point, I would say, back in the day and but then it still took a couple of years, actually. So like I said, this happened in 2008, late 2008, and it wasn't until 2008. Well, I believe that I left my last corporate job. But in the meantime, I did a whole lot of other things. So, for example, I spent some time at a Buddhist Buddhist monastery, which I would describe definitely as another milestone. I over the years, I spent two, three retreats there. But the very first time being there and getting in touch with Buddhist philosophies, which back then were completely new to me. I mean, I knew nothing about all that mindfulness and that I was busy being busy. And so I would say those two were the major milestones in everything from there really happened. I never. Your second question, I never consciously decided to be Vegan. But one day I was. And it was just this process that started with a dietary consultation, actually, with an innovative dietitian. And she I was. I have to tell you, I looked a lot different back then. I was 60 pounds heavier. One of the things and I just actually went to see her because I was struggling with allergies. And so looking at my eye, you're Vedic type. She just recommended to leave out certain foods. And I did not completely, but I tried. I was experimenting and I could tell the most, mostly that is red meat and dairy at the time. And I realized very quickly how much better I was feeling. And so for me, it's all interwoven. I didn't think about being Vegan at the time, but once I started or I stopped consuming edible products or reduced them, at least at this point, I could see the connection not only to my body and mind, my health, but also my mental state. Yeah. So and this journey led me to a point where I just first of all, my body was craving any of these foods that I used to love before, but also how my mind something was started. I started to question things and how, you know, I can lead this lifestyle on one hand, but not look at the entire picture. And for me, food, body, mind and spirit, it's all one. So at one point I realized I can't do this anymore. And suddenly I was Vegan.

 

[00:11:54] Yeah, after that path. I've spoken to, you know, this series, this podcast endeavors to look at the Vegan world from all angles, not one in particular. And it's interesting how all roads lead back to Vegan. You know, it's a there a like maybe I've unearthed about I'd say well over 30 so far in my 50 podcasts that I've done.

 

[00:12:18] Reasons why, you know, there's health, there's optimal mental clarity. There's spirituality, there's animal welfare, there's economy and ecology. There's environmentalism, there's accountability and sustainability, all sorts of things. But it all kind of leads back to people questioning all of the other arms of it as well. You know, so if someone came at it from the environmental aspect, they eventually come back to describe having questioned the cruelty aspect and things like that. It doesn't really matter where you begin. Everyone ends up at the center with a lot of very similar ideas, which is unique because it's not true in a lot of ways of life, you know, and certainly not in a lot of dietary, which a lot of people consider vegans to just be a dietary thing. And I think what's interesting about it is I titled the podcast this after doing research of realizing that it's truly a way of life for people after they've encountered it enough and much like yourself, you know, allergies and things like that. I don't think that people who are adults who don't suffer from allergies. I was one of them. Understand how much mental fog accompanies them. Allergies from food even and from the environment. There's a description of just like a haziness constant like sleepiness. And when that's lifted, along with the allergies like you, you speak about this mental clarity that goes along with it, which I think sounds like a brilliant side effect. I'm curious, after you, it sounds like everything was interwoven within this time period. You know, you were experiencing this idea, Vedic help with the diet. Then you're going to, you know, Buddhist retreats. You're studying this philosophy and you wake up one day and your Vegan. Is that when you chose to write shampoo thoughts on happiness? Or was it during that transition? Was it during that journey?

 

[00:14:02] Actually, Champi thoughts the book as the book was, it was just published last year. Dories, I'm right about we're a part of this journey. And actually back then I started blogging. I started a blog which I called Mindful Vision, which still exists. But I don't really use it anymore. But that's how it all started. I woke up one night in the middle of the night, I remember, and I had to start this thing and I started writing. So the idea for this book came last year on a trip, actually, and I started not just using the block. A lot of the things I published on the blog first, but they've been edited and enhanced. But the foundation was really that blog. And then it's it's a continuation also of my first book, Nasha Deviser Begin. You were close with that, by the way. Thank you. But it was really the the idea of taking all these learnings, taking all my baby steps that I took at the time. You know, I took so many steps in different directions. Sometimes I was walking circles. Sometimes I took one step ahead and three back to to use that and share it. And like, I have all this and. I mean, you read it, so, you know, it spans quite, quite some time. Yeah. This little episodes. But that's that's how the champloo thoughts came about. But really, as a library of inspiration, sharing my own way, sharing my own doubts and thoughts and stumbling stones along the way.

 

[00:15:51] Yeah. It talks a lot about core tenants that I think speak to a lot of things that Vegan practitioners from all different rooms kind of come into concept with.

 

[00:16:00] And I hadn't really thought about it until it was leaked as part of your bio. But you talk about addiction to stress and things of that nature that, you know, these these moments of of having to do to use as a, you know, radical honesty in an effort to really analyze things we'd rather not look at. We've spent a lot of barriers. I think a lot of people would tell you the majority of people I know would say that they don't like stress. And you unpack it as this like. Indeed you do. And you enable it. And, you know, you're quite addicted to it in one's life unless you're looking at it, because it's part of, you know, I was too busy working to consider work. You know, think all of these f they kind of turned in on themselves, which I think is a lot of the Vegan things as well. You know, people talk about, you know, I was too busy eating to consider my diet, you know, things of that nature. I was too busy being addicted to food to realize why I was addicted or to realize that it was killing me. So I want to climb into the I want to know. So let's get the logistics for everyone listening out of the way. So when was hashtag Vegan Ventures, the blog launched? And did you take any funding? Did you have any co-founders? And what was the impetus for it? Like what was the beginning phase of it?

 

[00:17:13] It was born out of necessity, actually. The blog, as it is now, I would say, was launched sometime in 2016, maybe seven, early 17. I can't even give you the exact date because also everything in my life, you know, I start something. I don't know where it's heading. And one day I see the result. So Vegan Ventures was really started out of necessity. And I went Vegan in 2013. So it's been seven years and a lot has changed in the meantime. And I've always loved traveling. So when I first went Vegan and I was traveling, I was on my own. I mean, you couldn't just go to the grocery store and pick up five different kinds of plant based milk and Vegan cheeses and whatnot that you can do now everywhere, at least in Germany. I mean, all the major grocery stores everywhere carry a good amount of Vegan products back in the day.

 

[00:18:13] Not the case, let alone eating out when you're traveling. So a part of my travels for me was not just the travel, but I enjoy it. But I also wanted to.

 

[00:18:27] Help other Vegan travelers at the time sharing. You know what I found out, caring about local places or sharing the best tips about how to go about something. So, for example, I learned very quickly that you can't rely on really getting a Vegan meal on an airplane even if you ordered it. Just little things. But it was really things I discovered along the way that I just wanted to share to make it easier for others. And also in the second set, that was the first step, how it came about in the second step.

 

[00:19:09] I just wanted to share my Vegan life as an inspiration to show people you can do this. And this is not just munching on carrots and celery. And you don't stop living a decent, fun life because you go Vegan just the opposite is the case. How much more very colorful, healthy fun this can be. And that was really the second step that I still wonder. That's still my aim until today.

 

[00:19:39] Absolutely. So you and you kind of mix in everything you said. You know, you've got some recipes. You do this. You do that.

 

[00:19:46] How do you what does your curation process like? How do you decide what makes it onto the blog? What's important enough to feed you? Take audience readership feedback. How do you do that?

 

[00:19:56] A little bit of everything. So as I told you before, I'm kind of I just do it and then I see where it goes. But I had to be a little more considerate at some point. The recipes, for example, that was I wasn't planning on putting recipes on there. And there are not a whole lot up there yet. I still have a lot more to go on there. But this was. Yeah. Reader feedback. Yeah.

 

[00:20:25] Actually on Instagram because I'm posting a lot of my food on Instagram that I make and I'm making a lot of Vegan German food as well. So this was actually this came from a German speaking following mostly like, oh, can you send me that recipe? And then I send the first recipe in a sense a second recipe like, oh, that's a lot of work, something out each recipe by itself, like, okay, I'll put it on the board.

 

[00:20:51] So this is reader feedback. I started doing little videos, promotional videos as well. And this also just happened because I happened to be in Greece and I met a wonderful Vegan chef with German roots.

 

[00:21:10] And finally his his place is also called Roots, Foods and Cultures.

 

[00:21:15] And I loved his story. I loved his food. I love his place. And his vibe was like, I need to share this with others. So I started making a little video to catch up, catch the vibe of the entire situation.

 

[00:21:30] So really, it evolves as I go along. Yeah. And I would respond.

 

[00:21:36] Speaking to that, I still think one of my my great narratives that I like to draw vegans and non vegans alike through is the story and chronicles of Vegan cheese. And I don't know how, but the Greek the Greeks got it right, like Fast and Furious, like 10 years ago when Vegan cheese over here was terrifying. Like, you just couldn't get near it. It didn't melt. It was horrible. It was filled with more preservatives than plastic. And the Greeks just came along and used olive oil. You know, it was a genius thought. So I and to that end, I kind of want to unpack because you have this great finger on the pulse for a German begins. And I have to say, I have a lot of stereotypes to unpack when I start traveling as a Vegan because I think of Germany and I think of schnitzel, you know, and like very, very few things I can think of eating are like Kraut or something like that, you know, like very few items. But I want to kind of unpack with you how your perception of the Vegan scene in Germany is and how it's changed if it has changed over the past five years.

 

[00:22:39] Oh, definitely. Absolutely. I mean, I live in Berman, so this is not really a good example for the rest of Germany because this is, I think, the Vegan capital of at least Europe, if not more. I think we have now I'm not quite sure, but I think we have in Berlin alone about 80 all Vegan restaurants and cafes or stores. So here, whatever you crave, it's a Vegan schnitzel. You'll have at least two or three places to get their Vegan schnitzel. So Berlin, different story. But even the rest of Germany, major, major changes. So when I first I remember 2014, I was traveling throughout Germany, the southern area of Germany, mostly rural.

 

[00:23:28] So I was Vegan already. It came to a point. I didn't even bother asking for Vegan options anymore. Right. It just didn't exist. Maybe they had something vegetarian, but it was surely stuffed with cheese and. Other things I wouldn't. So I went on a raw vegan diet for a while because I didn't have I didn't I couldn't cook or prepare my own food. That's fine. So that's OK.

 

[00:23:58] But nowadays I want to say, of course, you you still see different agencies. If you go to a bigger city, even if it's not Berlin, it's a bigger city.

 

[00:24:09] All of them have Meekin restaurants by now. And unless it's it's a very nice old fashioned place, I would say most places either have a vegan option on the menu or will be able to free something for you.

 

[00:24:34] And an issue without getting angry, like back in the day, I would say five years ago when you told someone you were vegan, it was like a call to arms. You know, they were immediately, like, offended if there was an immediate education and perhaps it a de-escalation of being offensive to them. And I think now a very least, people are willing to hear the word without like that reaction, at least in the states. Is it the same over there? Can you kind of use the word Vegan? And what is it in German?

 

[00:25:03] Is it is there a word for it? It's almost the same. It's Vegan.

 

[00:25:10] Do you think that if you were traveling through, let's say, South Germany and you bumped into a little town or even over towards like the Polish border would if you said that word would in a delicatessen or a restaurant, would you think that people would know what it was?

 

[00:25:29] Hard to say. Most I would. I mean, if you're in a very, very small town, let's say older people, your chances are getting slimmer. But overall, I would say overall, people know what it means. I mean, not necessarily everything that it means. So I always I learned that very quickly that if you say I'm Vegan, I don't eat animal products. Sometimes it needs more explanation than that.

 

[00:26:01] So I usually just run through the list, you know. So that means that I don't eat and then I just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then when they suggest something I think about and everything they could possibly put in there.

 

[00:26:14] And I double check and ask again. But overall, this people I don't see this. What you see this. I think it's an anger. Something like that. It's more.

 

[00:26:28] Amazement or so, how can you live like that? Oh, my God. Or why would you do that? But it really has changed over the years. It's much more accepted and no. Like I said in the May, all the major supermarkets here in Germany, they have increased their Vegan a product by I don't even know a lot.

 

[00:26:56] And I think that well, I believe that were some of the anger that a lot of people may have experienced five, 10 years ago is based out of veganism, was introduced as this restrictive, almost cultish way of life that a group of people lived who were kind of obsessed with the welfare of animals and militant and not caring values and beliefs like the rest of us.

 

[00:27:16] And since that time period, at least in the United States, there's been so much media and propaganda and films and scientific studies that have come out and proven the benefits and the longevity, you know, on the disease reversing and health aspects of veganism. But I think a lot of people now don't necessarily attribute it to this militant way of life, but rather people who may be seeking health or may have allergies. It's just been attached to something else. And so I think that the anger portion of it has definitely dropped off. No, I will stay say that. As a mother of four children, there's no faster way to get, you know, people kind of throwing up their arms with me than to suggest that my Vegan child's coming to their child's birthday party even when I'm like none of them know that they're good.

 

[00:28:03] They don't eat anything that you wouldn't worry about it.

 

[00:28:06] You know, there's there's this sense of difficulty, whereas children who have any type of allergies, you know, I don't think that there's that same sense, at least not to their face, perhaps behind their backs. But this inclusiveness, I think, is starting to reach out. I like it there. So Europe is tiny, but so different, you know, especially with the Vegan culture. I visit Ireland a great deal. Dublin and my husband's family is, you know, it from there. And then we travel all over. And Dublin did a good job. Over the past 10 years, they've had some really staunch old historical Vegan restaurants that have been around for 20 years. And and since that time period, the vibrancy has kind of come up. But I really see it as a product of you had a few of the old guard, but it's the youth. It's generation, you know, it's the millennials, definitely. But GenZE who are actually coming at veganism, not necessarily from a health standpoint, because the youth tend to be healthy, but rather from an environmental and a responsibility standpoint that they all have. And it's very different from there when I go to Australia or somewhere else. The youth and the vegans there have a very. They come at it from exercise and fitness. You know, there tends to be that influence over there. I'm wondering, where do you think the larger population of the Vegan members of the community are in right now in Germany? Is it in the younger? Is it also spreading into the older? How does that work?

 

[00:29:37] They're everywhere, of course, but I do think the younger gender a generation is.

 

[00:29:44] Is making a difference and bringing more awareness to veganism. And also, you know, tying in like environmental aspects. The odor. I mean, this is by no means. A general assessment. But from what I see or from the people that I know, I would say the older generation, most of them, not all of them, but a lot of them did come to veganism because of health or for for health reasons. And like with myself, you know, that's the start. And then along the way, a lot of them open up like, oh, they're a million more reasons to be Vegan. But this was the starting point. I see that with with the older generation in general, but especially the young ones. Environment. Animal rights activism. All of that. I would say is probably the driving factor. Like the young folks are willing to go out in the streets and do all the protesting and all that. Definitely. And I also think that from my experience. It's a lot more normal. And the younger generation to be Vegan.

 

[00:31:02] Yeah, and they're gonna grow up. So it's going to get you know, it's going to be normalized one way or another. I'm wondering, with the Kovik 19 pandemic and the set in for you personally, obviously not on a political scale, but has there been conversation in Berlin that you've seen about Acom returning to looking at food or sources of health? Not even I don't get into the cause of Cobbett or anything like that, but it's returned a lot of people to a conversation about diet and what we are eating and and what will keep immune systems healthy in a way like hasn't happened over the past 50 years. And I'm wondering in Germany, if there has been a return to considering, you know, even just like increasing the amount of vegetables or things that do kind of speak to the Vegan lifestyle. Have you seen an increase in that with anyone personally or on the news or anything like that?

 

[00:31:55] Personally, I'm trying to have these conversations because that's exactly my arguments. Like, we do have an immune system. It's it's made for things like that. I mean, I'm not saying that this is not real and people aren't suffering and dying. I do see that yet. We do have an immune system. And for me, this I have to say, I don't follow the news daily. I just don't. But from what has come to my attention, what I've seen, I'm not seeing that at all. It's more about, you know, trying to what can we do to go back to our weird way of normal life that we had before? No, we're wearing masks. We're doing this, doing everything possible so we can go back to our routine behavior, which was the most convenient. And we don't have to look at it. Nobody's publicly, at least, and that's a nobody. But this is not the news that the majority of Germans hear about, like a discussion about, well, what can you do with your immune system? How can you boost it? All these things? And it's really I find it very annoying because I'm trying to have this conversation or at least have the conversation. Why don't we hear about this? I do trust in my system. I do. And so right now and this is really a very sensitive topic, because just this or last week, they found a huge outbreak in a slaughterhouse in Germany. I don't know if you've heard about that day.

 

[00:33:30] And I had wondered kind of what the local conversation was about around that.

 

[00:33:36] So.

 

[00:33:38] I just heard on the radio today as I was driving in my car, I just heard that apparently one major politician won. One of the conservative parties said we need to reconsider.

 

[00:33:53] Our animal agriculture was like, ha!

 

[00:33:59] I didn't hear what he said in detail just so I can only give you what I heard on the radio. But apparently for him, we need to go back to small slaughterhouses.

 

[00:34:08] That's not the discussion we need to wrap up.

 

[00:34:11] But at least, you know. But not the discussion. I want to have, but it's at least a step and still I mean, a lot of major outbreaks.

 

[00:34:22] I mean, from what I know, this has been the biggest in Germany and the slaughterhouse. But there have been major ones at the slaughterhouses before.

 

[00:34:30] And I can't believe that we're not having other discussions then. How long do we need to have. Wear a mask? How can we keep our kids out of school? That's not the solution to the problem. That's just masking it with a mask.

 

[00:34:46] Yeah. And as endurance wanes, I think the desire to stop questioning, you know, the endurance, to continue staying at home, the endurance to continue questioning, like, exhaust the mind. But I agree. And the cool thing about science and pandemics, if there ever were a cool thing, which there isn't, is that it doesn't let up just due to human exhaustion. So it will spike again if things aren't considered and changed, you know, it won't let go until it's had its way, until we figured out a way through its way.

 

[00:35:16] So I agree with what you're saying. I'm wondering. It sounds like you've had a lot of interpersonal dialog. You've wanted to have conversations with your public, with everyone around. And I'm wondering if that has changed your goals and what some of your goals are for hashtag Vegan ventures, for the blog, for your investigative efforts. Will you continue traveling once travel restrictions are lifted, once there is an immunization to covered? And if so, will it change your dialog with the world? What are your future goals?

 

[00:35:50] It kind of has, actually, I mean, I can give you like an exact direction where see the setting. But what I what I found is, I mean, I started this, as I said, more as an inspiration for others or sharing my knowledge. And I've come to the point where I really want to speak up for those who don't have a voice. I want to help this planet move in a plant based direction. I don't know if I'm going to see this in my lifetime, but at least I want to say be able to say at the end of it, I try. And so for me, this entire thing has been to be a lot more outspoken about that and to also have the uncomfortable discussions, which it's not that I didn't have them before, but it wasn't really my my focus. But to to wake people up, to show them what's going on. And also, I mean, I was one of them. I mean, I eat meat for thirty four years of my life. I not once questioned that really before. Not seriously at least. So to have these discussions knowing I know where you're coming from. I know this is very uncomfortable and I know this will maybe be a little. Challenge here and there, but. We live in the year 2020. There is so much information out there. You literally it's harder to close your eyes and not see or hear any of them. Then it is true, as it was, let's say, 20 years ago, you had to go out and find these pieces of information. Absolutely. I agree. I think it out there and there is not one ethical reason to keep doing what we're doing, not for humanity, not for the animals, not for the planet. And there is no planet B and we need all of us on this planet.

 

[00:37:58] Well, that just shows you the incredible attachment to the only thing I can equate it to is practicing breath work during meditation and things like that when people tell me to control my breath. There is an innate like almost automatic anxiety that creeps in to the body without even realizing in the mind when you go to control that because you're controlling your life source. Right. You're controlling your air. You need it. And I feel like the same is true for food when we go to question certain things about food. You are not just thinking about one aspect of your life that you might change. You're thinking about the love that your grandmother gave you. You're thinking about all of these things subconsciously. You know, the way that you reward yourself, the way that you hide from things, the way that you get through a tough situation. All of these different things are very much so attached to food in every single person's life, all over the world from, you know, South Africa to Antarctica. And so I think that analyzing it needs to come from, as you're saying, this place of compassion, you know, that we get that the people who have gone through it and thought through it and gone through these these testing things that we're very much so attached to for existence and coming out saying it's fine to be a little bit nervous, you know. But I think it's also proof that it is so clearly ingrained in just more than nutrition. It's more than just we're eating what we're eating to live because there is no evidence on Earth that says eating meat anymore is a good idea. There's just no thought given for the sustaining of our civilization. And so the idea that people are still doing it, it's because it's so attached to other things that we fight wars over, you know? And so I think that it's really great to come at it, as you say, with this very patient. Like, I understand this is a little scary. And I was where you were at those types of things. I have yet to actually speak with someone who was born Vegan. I will find them. Hopefully it's a her or a female identified or non binary individual because that's the company I like to keep. But I would love to find someone who was born and is a Goldstar Vegan never, never varied away because I just haven't met one yet.

 

[00:40:06] I have some good fortune. I wish I could say I can put you in touch with her, but I can't because one of the things that I do are used to do.

 

[00:40:17] I do Vegan tours in Berlin and one of my guests. Which wasn't even looking for it was a different tour that I did. But we started talking about veganism and she told me she was born vegan. Remarkable. Her dad was vegan and. Yeah.

 

[00:40:36] I'm jealous, seeing as you have never even questioned it.

 

[00:40:44] You know, and so I think it'll be. Yeah, it'll be fascinating. My children will be able to say they were born vegetarian. My youngest won't be able to remember not being vegan. But to be able to say you've never is an interesting idea, you know, and to kind of crawl into that. And the majority of the rest of the vegans are walking around, you know, needing to exhibit the compassion that we once should have for having realized, you know, the truth and things of that nature. We're slowly car crawling into being out of time.

 

[00:41:12] But I wanted to ask you before I let you go. Elena, if you have, like, a taut piece of advice for anybody who is listening, who is not Vegan, but kind of analyzing it, listening to this podcast, we've had a lot of people right in saying I really like the idea that you're coming at it. We've interviewed a whole bunch of doctors and, you know, just as I've said, different characters and experts from different parts of life. And you're coming at it from this traveling standpoint, from a very personal testimony. And I'm wondering if you have any piece of advice that you can offer anyone who's kind of listening just to educate and understand a little bit more about the Vegan world.

 

[00:41:49] Two things, actually, one. I get that, too. A lot of messages from people who are not Vegan yet, but they see the benefits for whatever, like all the reasons mostly, but they struggle. And for me, this this has led me to think about offering some Vegan coaching. As you mentioned, I am a coach. I'm a certified coach. I never really before I thought about going in the direction of seeking coaching, but doing exactly this, helping people along the way with their struggles. But that's a general approach. But overall, have compassion with yourself and take one step at a time. I mean, you don't have to be the perfect Vegan overnight. Some people can do it. Most people can't. And you don't have to. It's OK. Take the step that you can look at your life as it is right now and look at, OK, what's the first area I'm going to take on? What can I do? What can I change? How can I create new rituals, new things to reward myself? Join Vegan groups like acquaint yourself with the lifestyle with little bit and then go step by step by step by step. And you'll always be you know, you'll do it at your own pace and eventually. Don't beat yourself up if you can't keep your goal that maybe you had in mind. Turned out you couldn't reach it. Yes. It takes time for most people and have compassion with yourself as much as you do with the others and the animals, and I love that.

 

[00:43:31] That's perfect. Thank you so much for coming on and giving us all of your advice and your expertize today. Elena, I really appreciate it.

 

[00:43:39] Thanks for having me.

 

[00:43:41] Absolutely. For everyone listening, we've been speaking with Elena Theis. She's the creator of hashtag Vegan Ventures. You can find out more. It's w w w dot Vegan hyphen ventures, dot com. And thank you for giving us your time today and having your thoughts with me.

 

[00:43:57] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte.