Investigating Vegan Life With Patricia Kathleen

Talking With Lisa Gawthorne; Co-Founder of Bravura Foods, Vegan entrepreneur, Author and GB athlete

Today I am talking with Lisa Gawthorne. Co-Founder of Bravura Foods, Vegan entrepreneur, Author and Athlete Lisa Gawthorne is a passionate speaker on the topics of veganism, climate change and animal welfare. Recent appearances include TV include spots on Sky News and BBC News. Lisa has been named one of the top most 50 ambitious business leaders in UK by the Telegraph and has also been awarded the James Henry Cook award from the Health Food Institute for her inspiring support of vegan principles in business and sport.

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note this is an automated transcription, please excuse any errors or typos

 

[00:00:00] In this episode, I had the opportunity to speak with co-founder, author and Vegan athlete Lisa Gawthorne on key points addressed were Lisa's. A company that offers full sales, marketing and distribution services for Vegan products. Her book. Gone in 60 Minutes. And her incredible exercise and sports career as a proud Vegan athlete. Stay tuned for my awesome chat with Lisa Gawthorne. 

 

[00:00:35] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia. Kathleen. Dot com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Being and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. 

 

[00:01:32] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. 

 

[00:01:35] And today I'm sitting down with Lisa Gawthorne and she she's the co-founder and author and a Vegan athlete. You can find out more about her in the conversation that we have today on her Web site. W w w dot bravura foods dot com that's B R A V U R A foods dot com. Welcome Lisa. 

 

[00:01:55] Thank you. Thanks for having me. 

 

[00:01:56] Absolutely. For everyone listening, I will give you a quick bio on Lisa. But before I do that, a roadmap of today's podcast for those of you that want to a little bit of a transaction were first to look at. We says academic, personal and professional history as well as her Vegan journey kind of gives you a foundation as to how she came to where she is right now. Then we'll turn our efforts into unpacking both River Foods and her book entitled. Gone in 60 Minutes. I'll get into some of the logistics about the who, what, when, where, why, how funding co-founders, all of that. And then we'll turn our efforts to looking at the ethos and the philosophical endeavors behind River Foods. And then we'll look at the book. As I mentioned, you get into some of the ethos. Is that what it offers its readers and what that wisdom it's meant to impart? We'll also look at areas talking about Kovik 19 pandemic and some of the conversation that we soon may be having with her fellow colleagues or even within herself about the changing reality that is upon us. We'll also look at goals that she may have looking into the future regarding her business and her personal endeavors. And we were up everything up with advice that we see may have for those of you who are looking to emulate some of her success or perhaps get involved with one of her current businesses. A quick bio, as promised. Co-founder of River Foods Vegan entrepreneur, author and GCB athlete Lisa Gawthorne is a passionate speaker on the topics of veganism, climate change and animal welfare. 

 

[00:03:25] Recent appearances include TV include spots on Sky News and BBC. Lisa has been named one of the top most 50 ambitious business leaders in the UK by the Telegraph and has also been awarded the James Henry Cooke Award from the Health Food Institute for her inspiring support of Vegan principles in business and sport. The Grocer magazine has also named Lisa as one of the 10 most influential people shaping the plant based market in the UK. Lisa is also the author of the Health and Fitness Book. Book. Gone in 60 Minutes, a bite sized health and fitness savior sold on Amazon, which is sold out. 

 

[00:04:09] We're gonna get that fixed. So as I just mentioned, I am an avid reader, but I don't care because I'm going to pepper you with questions anyway. 

 

[00:04:17] All about the book. Book. Before we get to all of that, I'm hoping that you can provide a platform of your academic life or your personal professional history, your Vegan story, anything that kind of brought you to launching preverb foods and writing the book. 

 

[00:04:34] Yes, absolutely. And the beauty about that is that it's all very much interlinks as well. So a quick short summary of what I did when I was younger at school and college. I was very good at business and the academic side of things. So I did a business degree shortly after doing that. Business suits and a new wanted to be in the world of marketing. And I set myself up with some really good jobs in the north west of England where I lived, where some great brands like to. It's them. So Cadbury's all these great film kind of kids, confection and kids, soft drinks brands did that for a number of years. And before I actually made the decision round about two thousand five, two thousand six, I really wanted to make that moral kind of change and decision to work for a company that had the Vegan a vegetarian specific products and now having been vegetarian since age six. And a quick story on my you actually 10 vegetarian age six, because I saw a little flip came to the post and it basically just explains and battery hen farms and also the conditions that cows are kept in. And then it was then that I made that complete connection that said to my parents, is it true, you know, is meat actually a cow? And the parents were very open and honest with me and said, yes, you know, this is what it is. And being a strong, well, six year olds, I said to them, don't ever put me on a plate ever again. And they supported me. They were worrying for the first few days as a father. And but then they supported me and we went out and we we reconfigured my diet, so to speak. So I'd been a vegetarian pretty much as far back as I could remember. Always with the aim to go vegan. I do a lot sports, which I'll I'll come on to later on, but I won't. It's always going to be you know, we're just waiting for this set of products on the markets to be able. For me to be able to make that change without a missed note on key nutrients, etc.. So fucking so the story of a career in about 2004, 2005, I decided it's really important. I've got quite a strong moral compass. I want to work for an aviation company. So I approached the then distributor of LB Electric Vehicles to health and basically just very, very briefly introduce myself. So the M.D. who didn't have a job for me? Well, after interviewing me and seeing how passionate I was about doing things with the brands in the portfolio, he can be made a position for me. And then after two or three years of work, my way up to being head of marketing in that division. And we then merged with another company called BBR Healthcare. I forged quite strong partnership with the head of sales call Morris together. We were growing a lot of the brands together and we decided, you know what, it's time for us to go out on our road, which is back in 2011. We created reviewal suits with the aim of giving consumers on the UK market a real cool choice of unique and ethical phone and a great taste in Vegan products right across Ambiens and Chill's and every other category in the market that you can think of that we really want to get in soon and bring more exciting products to the market. 

 

[00:07:48] Yeah, I want to climb into that. So I think I understand, but it feels like you offer kind of a multitude but also neach different services. 

 

[00:07:56] So on the Web site, it says that you offer a full sales, marketing, distribution service for Vegan and vegetarian products. And I wonder if you can kind of map out for the audience listening what a potential 10 year like that looks like. Do you take people who have just launched with a product? You take people who are seasoned. Do you take both? And how do you carry them all the way through? Do you put them in retail environments to help them with their online sales? Can you do both? How does all of that work? 

 

[00:08:23] Yes, sure. Great questions. 

 

[00:08:25] And when we first asked the business back in 2011, we were solely a distribution business at that point in time because the actual brand we started off distributing was pounds like rich. And you may you may know that is quite big in the US as well as being big in the UK. And then from there, that was a platform for us to bring in all that distributes products like Freedom Mallow's, which is the U.K. leading, and Jellison that marshmallow. And then having that kind of portfolio of growing products. We then made that decision to start developing some of our own products as well. So the two divisions actually work side by side. We've got a number of distributor brands that agree that in existence in all the countries or in the UK that we then take kind of title and ownership of as a brands and do all the sales and marketing, the PR, the digital campaigns and the logistics and warehousing and on the muscle, whether it's a broom that we distribute or whether it's a brand we make, a virus policy manufacturer, all of those products are subject to the same retail strategy. We're very, very successful in the UK marketplace with the likes of all the supermarkets, high street retailers, everyone from homes and Barak to Tesco to to assets, to boots, to deviate Schmitt's except trust a wall of these products. And they made the way down the retail chute into the high street and grocery outlets. And since COVA, that's changed slightly in that we are certainly looking more focused into increasing our digital footprint in the marketplace because a lot of consumers obviously are increasing spend online as well, particularly in the Vegan the vegetarian market. So when we're looking to to manifest that in. So our future plans as well. 

 

[00:10:09] OK, and who was let's get into some of the just the logistics for all of this founders' listening and biting at the chop to know your story. Who's your co-founder? What year did you found it? Did you take funding or did you bootstrap? 

 

[00:10:24] Cofound is called Morris, also a fellow Vegan. And so we've known each other now for about 12 years, worked together for two years before going out on our road. We started the business back in 2011. 

 

[00:10:37] And we did take funds and from the bank at the beginning, put on usually unlike many old astar soaps, because we were taking the distribute to them the distribution contracts, trucks from a previous company. We had guaranteed revenue in place across multiple retail structures. So that basically meant that we didn't have to have a massive reliance on external solms and that it was almost a change of ownership, should we say, from one distributor business to another. So that really helped us out with regards to the early days, because unlike most of the stores we were sourcing with well over two million pounds worth of business from day one. 

 

[00:11:19] Absolutely. Did you ever consider Worth Accelerator's even around back then? Was there any type of a system that you guys ever wanted to run it through? 

 

[00:11:27] You had this already proven wealth of income, and I know the angels and things like that are more of a scarcity, you know, in Europe than they are in my hometown of Silicon Valley. However, I'm wondering if there was any of that going on in 2011. I don't know in the UK what the environment was like with startups. 

 

[00:11:47] And it was definitely not as noisy as it is today. I mean, I think it's fantastic. 

 

[00:11:52] Now, every retailer on the mall has an incubator scheme and there's lots of collaborations going on with smaller challenge brands in the UK. Young Simms's is one of them in the UK, which I think is phenomenal. And if anyone wants to look that young Trudi's is a collection of amazing challenge brands that really are making an impact on the mall in the marketplace. They all start in pretty embryonic small kinds of growth brands. The tensions among the brands within two to three years. So a really, really good one to follow. 

 

[00:12:26] So I'd say we didn't really have that many opportunities in the early stages. We did, as we always have, and opportunities of external investment from from Beebe's equity house, things like that. But we were very, very specific, particularly in the early days, about really trying to hold on to what we'd been built in because we'd been building it in our own minds for many years price. We saw it. And we both have a very positive outlook on life with folks Vegan we're both about saving the planet were both, you know, eco warriors. I mean, I'll spare time. So it was very important to kind of keep that fluidity in the business. Back then, it was also quite difficult to find people, specifically investments to an investment that carried those same ideals, although that has changed somewhat that, you know, you've got beyond invest. Investment is a great example of that. But there was definitely a scarcity back then of opportunities. 

 

[00:13:21] Yeah, I find that to be true. 

 

[00:13:23] I was in Ireland about six years ago and I remember thinking it was too few and far between from my blood. 

 

[00:13:29] And I just felt like there wasn't a lot of there's too much to go in the chamber. 

 

[00:13:33] You know, I'm more comfortable when they're sucked in. I'm wondering, do you do you vet any companies or potential clients that come to you for services? Are there people that you wouldn't find to be a good fit or have you ever had that issue? 

 

[00:13:50] Yes, absolutely. 

 

[00:13:51] And I'll be honest, as we've grow wiser and older with our business efforts, we we can't take everyone's problem, Don, because, you know, at the end of the day, we've got to maintain efficient, same productivity and we've got to be able to deliver the service that we're well known for in the industry. So we don't. We no longer take all the brands that haven't really got a guaranteed revenue stream. So we like to work with brands now that probably being out in the marketplace, but somewhere between six and 12 months of started to prove themselves. And then we can offer them a lot more by giving to scale a mass, by saying we can take you out. So big retailers structures, we can have all national account management team. What would you want? Joint business plum's and sex atrocities. We can work with you across digital platforms and looking at Marks and Plum's right into operations, demand management and everything else that comes out of that. We have been approached by some great brands that I personally have wanted to take on and also call and met in many circumstances book. And a lot of them were kind of put back out and say, come back when you take these boxes, etc., and you've done that. 

 

[00:14:55] Otherwise, it can become quite a messy end to say that it will detract away from dealing with the business that you need to do for your main suppliers. And you made key principles over the years as well. So we tend to just say prove yourself, prove that you've got momentum, and then we'll take over and be a new whale on the on the vehicle. 

 

[00:15:15] Yeah, I like that. I think that the people who are selective make better pairing. You know, it saves not just yourself, but your client a lot of hardship. 

 

[00:15:23] And I feel like, you know, v.C is not the only people that should be vetting each other. Everyone should be vetting one another, you know, hopefully due diligence on all ends. 

 

[00:15:31] And I want to turn towards looking at your book, Gone in 60 Minutes. And I'm going to read a quick summary that we script from online. Most likely Amazon. So it says, banish your old tired health and fitness regimens regimes and explore the only four factors you need to shred, shred, fat, lose weight, stay healthy, be happy and get that dream body. This bite sized book is split into four quadrants that can be read in just one hour, complete with a perpetual 16 week training calendar. Diet management tips the low down on supplements and a look at how to stay motivated. Gone in 60 Minutes offers the most simple and effective advice to achieve a better body. It's the one health and fitness book you simply can't afford to miss out on. So I'm wondering, first of all, can you tell us when it was published and what your goal for writing it was? 

 

[00:16:28] Yeah, sure. I think it was back in 2011 or 2000s, actually, 2012. 

 

[00:16:35] And now the specific aim for me with with with writing this particular book is that over the many years of me being a member of various gyms, sports clubs spit in the Census and Leisure and Health that institutes, I was always approached by people asking the same questions over and over again. And it's one of those things. One, something that happens once is never going to happen again. So it's not strikes Streit's bounce off of bad time. And when it was getting into account of tens twenties, there's these people asking the same questions I actually thought was a mark here to develop something very simple. And that saves people going out and having to read 20 different books and subscribing to 18 different magazines and just puts it in very, very simple settings and specifically aims at everyone who is time pool because we're all so, so living in this stressful scenario, no one's got the time to read anything. So hence the book was Tam's Gone in 60 Minutes because the whole thing can be bad in just 60 Minutes is a small bite size. Health and fitness savior is split into four quadrants. And those four quadrants were the things that I got asked about the most I can give a lot of responses to with regards to personal case study. So the first section is very much about fitness. So it looks at getting rid of some of these myths about Colegio being the best thing and really kind of trying to get people into the whole level of stones and lifting weights is from the best things you can do for your body metabolism, you biobank and everything else that goes with it. I'm really trying to break down those myths. And Bobby, is that people may have an odyssey from the old days of seeing body bells and thinking, oh, if I lift a weight, I'm going to end up being a chunky monkey, so to speak. So there's a section on that. And with that was a 16 week factual Collins on a full exercise library and on the supplements and website. And people can go on and they can do all the work out. So about that last one. Then the next part tackles diet, which very much is focused on pump based fitness and also looks at and particularly pinpoint in pump based success in the athletic well. So looking at things like people like Serena Williams call. Just pick pinpoint to them out and let people know that you can achieve a law on that on them. A Vegan or a plant based diets. The fat section is about supplements. And because people always ask what supplements the best two types of things, like everything from energy to better sleep. So it's a fat loss except so mechanical that some of those things that it's not a one size fits all, but it gives some really good advice. So the things that are being used in personal case studies accept trucks. And then the last question is about motivation, which is a really important part of the book. I'm not really hammers home how to say on truck what to do to keep your fitness kind of fresh. What to do to keep yourself motivated, says on how to achieve your goals. And it's just simple stuff that I literally took. Everything I've learned that I know has worked for either myself or a lot of people around makes results, proven techniques, and just put it into an easy to understand format rather than trying to puzzle people with science. Thousands of pages, which I don't think is most meters now, and plenty of other people have done that. 

 

[00:19:57] I'm wondering, you're we talked a little bit off the record before we started recording, and you're a distance runner. 

 

[00:20:03] You explaining to me this specific kind of race that you get into. And I was explaining back to you that I would be very, very bad at said race. And I'm hoping you can kind of elaborate or enumerate on this run bike run race the format that you're into and kind of talk to some of the. 

 

[00:20:24] The widely held misperceptions and beliefs about, you know, being a distance athlete in a Vegan. 

 

[00:20:31] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. 

 

[00:20:33] So I've always run on all my kinds of athletic heritage is being involved in my particular favorite disciplines, all five K and 10K on. And so at the moment, just to give people an idea, my five kepi, these eighteen thirty nine and I'm a 10 kopb is thirty eight. Forty eight. So pretty fast. Well what a day. Not the fastest. We're setting up the slowest. What about that. Proving to people that you know you can get on the podiums in these local races and you come back to yourself and you can get a faster and strong gusts. 

 

[00:21:04] And saying that I just have an injury brought about probably about six years ago, a slight injury Monday and part of my rehab so not was to do more cross training, which enabled me to to land the wonderful world of the bike. And so after investment of what bike and a road bike, I did a lot more cycling and slept in a week. Rather than that being a hundred percent learning, I must be open to 60 percent wanting 60 percent cycling. I wanted to look for a sport that combined the two and Özlem was that very Scholes. So instead of Rome Bike, Rome and triathlon, it's one bike. So you from bike, swim and triathlon. It's run bike run in June alone. So it's five K run that are doing to stop then 20 K on the bike and then at two and ask all five cavewoman worms. 

 

[00:21:51] Depends on which distance to do. So I've been represented in my age group and team G.B. now on both European and the World Championships and its employees. I've been everywhere from Canada to Denmark to Spain to Romania. This year I'm set to go to Holland. Things cross if it's all in September to the world championships. And I think that that's really given me a credible platform to let people say that festival Vegan is definitely not weak. We are absolutely full of energy and people call me all the time and we say things like Gimel, psychostimulant, you must be on low to creatine or you must be young Torino caffeine. And I don't take any of them completely stimulants. Right. Have been since two thousand seven. And that is a and a conscious decision of mine. I literally feel on walls, so I think it's all I need. Occasionally I'll use isotonic seven minute long breaks, but I get everything I need from just pure hydration and don't need to have any of that kind of extra stimulation. People can't get over that because they say, wow, that is unbelievable, that you are surviving on natural energy and survive on much energy, but winning races, winning and vehicle times as well. So I think it's showing people that you can have really high energy levels on a plant based diet is really important. Letting them see that you're not weak. Let them see the strong. I mean, I go to the gym and I can rep as much as some of the men are in there. And it may only be small in stature and an incredible strong pound for pound. I'm extremely strong with regards to that. And so I think that's also important as well to let people see that strong and full of energy. You're not weak and you're not. And, you know, there's a lot of myths out there that people think, oh, you must be deficient in calcium or you must be deficient in V12. Well, I have had vitamin and mineral and nutrient testing every year yet because we do it for my own benefit and to make sure that I'm getting all the right targets with it, with all of my school nutrition expert on fitness side of things, not once have I ever been deficient in one vitamin. Now I do take a couple of vitamins showing the diet pill. I've got to be honest, even if it didn't take them, I still don't feel as if I'd be deficient because there's so many fortified foods on the market now. You've got bread, cereals and milks that roll falsified and vitamin D, B1, V12, etc. You really, really shouldn't feel that you're deficient when there's so many great fortified foods out there. So I think that's a massive fallacy and something that I'm always keen to let people know. And I think one of the best things that I feel and I can do is use this platform as a Vegan athlete, as a successful Vegan we'll know one of the things you Offaly on a Vegan cycliste and let people know that, you know, if anything, it's it's not about holding you back. It propels you forward. And it can be a massive secret power. And, you know, it's Testament's to when I go to races where I am in the world, I'm going to interview one of the vets. You know, I do get Chemnitz from people saying go Vegan and stuff like that. But you also get people comments afterwards and that's you shake your hands and say, brilliants, well, don't put it out there and letting people say it because you're part of a change and you part of that network that's driving the positive movement. And to me, that is just it's phenomenal, say that kind of favor. 

 

[00:25:14] Absolutely. And I think it's important to have positive icons in representation that's across all genres. As a woman, as you know, as a Vegan, like as everything that you are, as a business owner, as a co-founder. I'm curious on a personal level. 

 

[00:25:30] Like, oh, what do you find not the majority of your diet is ruled by. Are you equal? Are you doing grains? 

 

[00:25:38] Are you doing breads? You mentioned cereals. I love to talk about how fortified everything became because we stripped everything out of it, more so here than in Europe. We stripped our breads of any sort of fiber the second the 60s hit. And so we had to put things back into it, which only made it more fattening. And it's a diatribe. But I'm wondering for you personally, do you find a certain percentage being vegetables, fruits? What does your diet look like when you're training? 

 

[00:26:07] It's a question in fads. 

 

[00:26:09] Paul, until recently with it, with plum base on base fitness. Now they're on their own in style. You can check out they actually did a life story a day in the life. She clocked everything that I have in my diet because, again, it's not a question that a lot of people ask when you get your energy from. Is it more kinds of carbs? Is it is it more red grains or is it more kind of proteins? I try and eat as much protein as account on a vegan diet. At the moment, my microbe splits any woman's interest. It is 50 percent cops and those cops tend to be coming from the bases of oats, barley, rice, grains, Cain wall, sweet potato, and then it's twenty five cents fats. For that I will use things like a call doughs, not flax and olive oil, things like that. And then the remains and the remains. Twenty five percent is proteins. And for that I am, I am tofu queen. I love doing so. I have to do with everything it really does. It's such a versatile ingredient so you can scramble it and you can have it instead of fries. I have it on solids. So in suits we make Korey's with it and it really is a great product. So I'm kind of split between sisu and a little bit of the town as well and which have been that making from home over the last few months as well. Not that's great. Obviously we can't have gluten intolerant because it's made from wheat gluten. But again, very, very high in protein. It's over 75 percent protein content to sit down so fantastic together in the diets and just make sure that the big things, I mean with nutrition is to try and lock on the things that make you feel good. And if I have any foods that make me feel either uncomfortable digestive wise or if they affect my mood in any way, shape or form, we'll just call them out on that very quickly. I'm quite good at reading what works for me, what promotes good energy, what promotes positivity and things like that. Anything that's really important to people to get to grips with that, as well as rotating foods and keeping a varied mix of sources, all those foods. 

 

[00:28:22] Yeah, I completely agree. And I think that when you start Fine-tuning, that you start to play with the tincture of your livelihood in a way that's so invigorating and powerful. 

 

[00:28:32] TOMSULA That personal dialog, everyone's made slightly different, you know. And I love the idea of developing that deeper relationship and speaking to that and wondering if you've had a personal or professional dialog among colleagues, fellow athletes or even just yourself. Regarding the covered 19 pandemic that's hit, there's a lot of different for friends here that vegans have engaged on. You know, there is there isn't a conclusive hypothesis in this podcast, is it about developing one? There is. It's definitely brought to light wet markets and things that, you know, most vegans have a huge issue with. However, that's not necessarily the only conversation to have. There's a humanitarian thread that I keep promoting that gets brought up where we need to analyze our food source, know we need to look at sustainable measures. We need to requestion it. And you can have as many documentaries in what the and you know, and knives ever for again. And all of these with the health, all these things come out. But I think the pandemic is the final. We need to discuss this, you know, as a moment at least person to person, person among one's own self, have a conversation about whether or not you are signing off on what your food is, what's in it and where it's from. And so I'm wondering you personally, so there's mine. I'm wondering you personally, if you've had any revelations, if you've had a redistribution or reanalysis of your relationship with veganism or anything like that due to the covered nineteen pandemic? 

 

[00:30:01] Yeah, I mean, it's interesting your points about how interesting I am, I connect to them a lot because a lot of them are married by things that I've been going through myself. So it's quite interesting, the set and things that seems to happen in time that make my phone go crazy. I'm one of those was the game changes when the game changes fast. Came out, Mike, so went mental. For weeks people were getting in touch that I never thought would commit veganism. I'm talking about bodybuilders. I'm talking about big belly men that said, no, no, it's always safe to make people eat. You would never think would want to adopt a vegan diet. Got such a mean said that's it. Watch game change is I know what it can do for my health. It's all about my health. And they really wanted to take that on board now for me personally. There is an element of shock there because I'm an animal activist and everything that I've ever done in terms of my choices for veganism has all been about protecting the animals and all about a better life for the animals. So I always get frustrated a little bit Kofman my that personally as to why people don't necessarily have that same affinity and instead they will be driven by environmental reasons or health reasons. Books, as I've matured over the last few years particularly, and seen the pump based movement being driven by flexitarian zone from bases as well as Meagan's, anyone must reducing them content. I've been a little bit more open to one's guns and it doesn't have somebody mahsa what the people out there feel is their souls to wanting to go Vegan whether it's because that will be over health or worries over the animal welfare as long as I'm making positive steps. That's a big thing. I'm going back to that whole kind of my phone rang again. Again, very similar to what you were saying when this first hit. I did have a lot of people getting in touch with me, particularly on social media, and saying, wow, I didn't even know what what markets existed. It's actually made me think more about animals per say in terms of cows, in terms of pigs. I want to learn more. Can you tell me what your favorite cheese is? The best. Milk is the best. Let me say is in a lot of that kind of came out in other bucy about the world we live in now is it's so easy for me to recommend foods, because if you are a meat eater that really wants the taste of me, I can recommend Broms that tastes like meats, if you will. Someone that doesn't want that you almost like a roadie. You get to reveal just what any remnants of meat. I can also recommend things down because there's so many pockets of people motivated by different things. It's actually roll around. I would say I'm a more positive and then constructive and holistic movement. So what I've seen is people, as you've said, question and more. I'm just thinking about food, food, sustainability, ingredients, integrity, provenance, food, wanting to know the back story, where has it come from? And I think a lot of people are starting to really now understand and I'd be shocked as well by just how much food travels around the world to get two here in the UK, as it does probably in the US and everywhere else. What? There's no reason why we can't make that on our home grounds. So I think we're going to see a resurgence of that over the coming years in terms of resurgence, Buchan's domestic manufacturing and doing things closer to home that we can control. 

 

[00:33:15] Yeah, and seasonal, you know, eating and things even as good as someone who's been in the game for a long time, you know, and under that, I've been under this Vegan umbrella for ten years and I've been prolific in my studying and researching, hence this podcast. And it's a changing dynamic for me daily. You know, it's it's a constant conversation. I spoke with someone just recently, a guest on the show, who mentioned, you know, eating seasonally, a chef who said in the UK, she said it's not the same as the greenhouse ground. Just because we could produce the food year round didn't meant we were meant to or that it would taste the same or even do the same thing for our bodies. And I love that. Going back to the reconsideration and the ease that kind of came about in the 70s, in the 80s, with this globalization of food and how it destroyed economies and whatever you believe about macro economics aside, it did change the structure of how we even perceived food. We just stopped questioning it, where it came from. It lived like before, who was farming it, what they put on it as they farmed it. All of this things just went away and now are reemerging. And so, yeah, I agree with what you're saying. I'm wondering as you're kind of moving through this this this time in this process with, you know, the pandemic is is here. And and as we hopefully are on the horizon of a vaccine and things of that nature, do you see any changes that you will implement for your business, for your athletic life or anything like that moving forward? Because as or as a result of this. 

 

[00:34:45] Yes, absolutely. 

 

[00:34:47] And from a business point of view, it's definitely revealed to us that we need to do more digitally. And so we've always been very strong bricks and mortar level with all the retailers on the High Street. And in our Tom Fox except Jebal, we've really kind of always thought we'll get to digital in the future or, you know what we'll do? We'll kind of do an hour on Friday, which now seem to realize it needs to have a dedicated team, a dedicated strategy. And we actually do social media very well. So linking social media into a digital platform, you know, it works well for us. We've already started the ball rolling on. That would be the biggest step change that we'll be seeing them go into the future in terms of having more digital presence as a business that I'm working with on the ground zero zero broms on that. 

 

[00:35:35] I think personally kov, it's this this whole kind of lockdown scenario for me personally. It's done something for me that actually has been beautiful on a personal empowerment level, but also really useful for the schools as well. And that has its ground. It makes. It's made me realize how little I need to survive. It's made me realize just what is important in life. And it's made me prioritize better, give myself more time for myself. And I'm really kind of just get to grips with things and make time for things that haven't necessarily had time go in the past. So just little things like I'm a keen photographer, McCain, be like yourself, a bit of a book web and bought, you know, over the last two years, particularly when business has been so stressful and so fast pace. I've probably read two books the year. I used to be two books in a week. It's crazy. So since lockdown, I've gone back to read the law. I've gone back to self education, self empowerments. And only on the weekends I was on a self empowerment circle with five of the right individuals. That was great. We all learn a lot from each other and it's just made me believe about life is very short. We should be doing things that really are about positive movements and spreading positive energy and joy. And I'm that kind of fits into the kind of character that I am anyway, because I've always done crystal healing and I've always been a big believer in positive meant lots to. And then Alpay and CVT and all those kind of great things that we can use. So I think it speaks for the one thing I would say if I had to smoke one word. For me personally, I would say I'm grateful. 

 

[00:37:18] Yeah, that's wonderful. I mean, that's an amazing thing to come out of this kind of tragedy. 

 

[00:37:24] I try to be very I'm a little bit more shy with things that I find of beauty or things in that in this time of, you know, sadness and global despair. And so I'm I'm very tender with it, but I'm not sure that that's the right course. You know, I think that we need hope and we need to also revel in things like you're talking about and the humanity behind those things. Yeah. That unites all of us and is directly, I believe, in in core value with them, the Vegan world, you know, and and for some analysis that it's around. 

 

[00:38:00] Well, we are out of time. But I just want to say thank you, Lisa, so much today. I really appreciate you coming on and giving us your candor for anyone who wants to follow your instead. Do you have an Instagram or Twitter handle that you prefer? 

 

[00:38:11] Yeah. 

 

[00:38:12] Yeah, I've got an Instagram is Leece that on the school Gulf oil and Twitter is gone in 60 minutes. 

 

[00:38:21] Yay! 

 

[00:38:21] So, everyone, thank you so much, sir, for coming on. I appreciate your time and your story and your candor. 

 

[00:38:28] My pleasure. Thanks for having me. 

 

[00:38:29] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Lisa Gawthorne. She is co-founder, author and Vegan athlete. You can find more about her company at Bravura Foods dot com. And thank you for giving us your time today. I appreciate it. Until we speak again. 

 

[00:38:46] Remember to eat clean, eat well, stay safe, stay in love and always bet on yourself. Sanjay. 

Chatting with Bettina Campolucci Bordi; Founder of Bettina's Kitchen

Today I am chatting with Bettina Campolucci Bordi. Bettina is an author, vegan chef, and founder of Bettina's Kitchen. She believes we can start now to positively influence the next generation in the importance of true self-care and choices so that, unlike us, they don’t have to relearn them later in life. This includes sourcing local ingredients in any shape or form, preserving traditions, eating seasonally and cooking from scratch.

https://www.bettinaskitchen.com

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. 

 

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note this is an automated transcription, please excuse any errors or typos

[00:00:01] In this episode, I had the opportunity to sit down with plant based author, food consultant and retreat host Bettina Campolucci Bordi. Key points addressed were Bettina's information and cookbooks in her books titled Seven Day Vegan Challenge and Happy Food Fast, Fresh, Simple Vegan. Bettina and I also examine the importance of eating seasonally and responsibly in regards to local farms and distance between food to table. Stay tuned for my fantastic chat with Bettina Campolucci Bordi. 

 

[00:00:40] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia. Kathleen. Dot com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Being and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. 

 

[00:01:39] I am your host, Patricia. And I am sitting down today with Chef Bettina Campolucci Bordi. She is a plant based author, recipe developer, Vegan food consultant, content creator and retreat host. You can find out more about her on her Web site. W w w dot Bettina's kitchen dot com. Welcome, Bettina. 

 

[00:01:59] Thank you so much for having me. 

 

[00:02:01] Thank you for having me as well. I can't wait to kind of climb through. You've got a really prolific reach as m as a chef and an author and cookbook developer. I'm excited to get into everything. But before we do that, a quick roadmap for everyone. Listening for today's podcast will first look at Bettina's academic and professional history. And then we will turn our attention towards unpacking her story, her businesses and books. We will also look at her Web site and the different information that that offers, as well as her services. And then we will get into specific questions that I have regarding the rhetoric around Vegan eating and living during the week of the covered 19 pandemic and pieces of advice that Bettina might have. And then we will look at the differences between some key categories, particularly when it comes to the world of culinary and the intersection of that and Vegan life. And we'll wrap everything up with goals that Petina may have for herself and her business endeavors in the next one to three years, as well as advice for those of you that are looking to get involved in what she is doing and how she's working everything. Before I start getting too much into the minutia of everything between, I'm hoping you can walk us through kind of a brief description of your academic background and early professional life that helps develop the platform of how you came in to launching your Web site and your books. 

 

[00:03:23] Absolutely. So my background is has always been a food and beverage. 

 

[00:03:29] And it's what I, I, I used to work in restaurants from the age of 15. The difference was that I was always front of house, so I wasn't actually in the kitchen when I first started out. I was always really passionate about cooking and about food and grew up in a family where we would go on holiday. And it wasn't the museums that we remembered. It would be the meal that we had or the market that we went to and grew up with two grandmothers that loved cooking. 

 

[00:04:01] So my passion was always cooking. However, it was something that I was advised not to follow in terms of being a chef to begin with. And the closest I could come to or be near food would be to go down the food and beverage route. So my degree is actually in hotel management and business. So, yeah, I worked in a while. 

 

[00:04:29] You turned away. Who was advising you not to get near the food industry? 

 

[00:04:34] I think my parents were like, no, there's no feature of being a chef. It's hard work. It doesn't pay well. You know, if your academic does go down that route. And so I was like, okay, what can I study or what can I have a degree? And that sort of an envelope that includes food and being in the industry. So, yeah, sense of house for many, many is. And then when I was I think I was twenty six or twenty seven, this opportunity came up. I was the food and beverage manager of this sort of result that was running retreats. And I met a business partner and we thought we can do this so much better. And by starting this new business, which was within the wellness industry, I decided that rather than finding a chef that would cook on these retreats, I would want to do the cooking. So this was, yeah, 70 years ago now. And that is how I sort of got into plant based cooking at the time. It was very popular to do just detoxes. So we decided that we wanted to let our clients eat food. Is the best way of doing that was going Vegan or what I like to call from Facebook. We'll get we'll get to that bit later on. And also decided to do gluten free cooking. So it was Vegan and gluten free and basically. Round the first retreat and got really passionate about that source of cooking, and that is what initially sparked this whole journey that I entered into. So remember that 78 years ago, veganism was definitely not as widespread as it is today. Yeah. And everyone was wondering, what are you doing? Why are you doing vegan food? Why are you doing gluten free? And this business was started in southern Spain, which is even sort of it's more traditional in terms of how they cook. And my color palette was going to food markets because they're eating seasonally and going to a food market was the best and cheapest way to source food and using basics like grains and rice and sort of good, good produce. So that's sort of that became the basis of my cooking. 

 

[00:07:29] It was originally to fulfill this kind of retreat mentality. Did you have these breaks in between where you would go off and develop new recipes for the next load of retreat's customers, or how did that work? 

 

[00:07:42] So when I started out, this was sort of pre social media and. Blogging and stuff like that, so I had a few cookbooks written by Swedish cookbook authors. That was sort of touching base on sort of raw vegan cuisine. And I had those as a basis. And then I stumbled across Matthew Kenny, who was doing online courses and also had a cooking school in L.A.. So on one of our holidays, I convinced my husband to fly over to L.A. and I did one of his courses and I was hooked. So I ended up doing a few of his courses. I started going to more food expos. And, you know, with passion comes a curiosity. So your work becomes your passion and vice versa. So with with all of that, I started recipe developing because, you know, if for recipes good. Then you obviously want to make it again. 

 

[00:08:52] And. 

 

[00:08:55] Instagram came along as well. And Instagram was a tool for me to remember what I'd cooked on all of these retreats. Oh, no. A little internal. Exactly. So if you've been on my Instagram, it's overhead shots with me holding a plate, basically. And I. I wear funky socks. But people started to notice that became a thing. So, yeah, Instagram was a way of journaling food because it was a way of remembering the dishes that I'd cooked on different retreats. And that took off along with begin cooking. Rounds came along. And that's how sort of recipe development came along as well in terms of. Well, fast forward a few years and Vegan on gluten free cooking became ginormous. 

 

[00:09:51] All of the sudden, yeah, you were in a really interesting time period. I feel like just my personal journey as a Vegan person where it's been during a time period that I don't think will recreate itself again in that, you know, when I was doing it, it was myself, Buddhist monks and some hippies strung out. You know, it was just this exact change moment. People would gasp. Some people were like, I don't understand that. That's just being a vegetarian. There was all these different things. But it's amazing how mainstream it's become and not amazing. 

 

[00:10:20] It's it's actually a music to my ears because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have ended up with a friend in sight. How much I talked about the benefits of veganism. And it's good to have other people kind of touting it now, too. 

 

[00:10:31] And for you as a chef, it's interesting to have even I was speaking to a Vegan baker and she was saying, you know, it's almost free to be a regular baker in the United States. The subsidies that are attached to milk and eggs and things like that make it practically free to use those items. And she was like, you know, you talk about arrowroot. And I'm still paying top dollar for that. There's no competition bringing that price down. And yet, as chefs and, you know, still maintaining integrity with ingredients and what you do, I think as the Vegan world opens up more, they'll become more accessible and you'll be able to produce more of it and those types of things. I'm wondering, you have two books that I've looked over. We talked about this before recording, and one of them is the seven day Vegan challenge. And another one is the happy food, fast, fresh, simple Vegan. And I'm wondering, after a while, we're unpacking your journey and your story. I kind of want to gloss over these. I want to say is seven day Vegan challenge came first. Is that correct? 

 

[00:11:34] No way. Rapid fire, OK. 

 

[00:11:36] And then first, let's start with happy food, fash. Fresh, simple Vegan. It's, um. It's so I have a summary here is in Happy Food. You share a collection of easy and delicious plant. These recipes that anyone can incorporate in their busy life, whether you're looking to eat more veggies or you've decided to turn vegan but don't want to compromise on taste as the book for you. Your philosophy is your simple food is meant to make you happy. So can you kind of draw out for the audience listening in this food? We get our first introduction to you some of your recipes and your style of cooking. What is the overall ethos that you really meant to convey for your reader and practitioners from this cookbook? 

 

[00:12:18] I think for me, it's always been really important to let the field do the talking and not sort of not not be trapped by labels. So if it tastes good, if it looks good, then it doesn't matter whether it's I think. Hang on a second. 

 

[00:12:42] How do I say this with the wellness industry and with a lot of people coming on retreats? There was a lot of presumptions on what Vegan food was going to be like. 

 

[00:12:52] So one prime example is a lot of partners or husbands coming with their wives and sort of been been talked into coming into going on a yoga retreat and, you know, having to Vegan food for a week. So my philosophy was always like, if I can get those type of people on board. And to make them completely forget about the label of, say, Vegan food and just enjoy the food itself for what it is, it looks beautiful. It tastes beautiful. It's comforting. And it makes you feel good. Then I've sort of nailed it and it doesn't matter under what label the food stands under. So that's the type of philosophy that I've tried to fall in. Also using good basic ingredients, not having to go to a supermarket and spending hundreds of dollars on specialty ingredients that are flown halfway across the world to be able to achieve good results. So with you know, you can achieve tasty food with very little and you can you can let natural colors do the talking. This there's not much that you have to alter or change to get good, tasty food. And yeah, I think there's this there's always a misconception that Vegan food. Well, was any ways that Vegan if it was boring, that was. But it was not filling enough or not comforting. So those are the people that I target. The people that have those preconceptions and also inspiring people to include and eat more vegetables without being afraid to give it a go. So. And also bringing back the forgotten vegetables, I call them, you know, potatoes and carrots and onions and cabbage and all of these amazing vegetables that we have. You know, you would normally receive on a weekly basis if you subscribe to vegetable box and then you just don't know what to do with them. But there's so many different ways that we can incorporate. 

 

[00:15:04] Yeah. And I think you're a you're. You've integrated a lot of talk about cabbage in particular. 

 

[00:15:09] And I'm a massive fan of all varieties of cabbage and how it's overlooked. You can bake it. You can steam it. There's so many things that you can do to cabbage that, you know, most people viewed as like a lettuce. And so you and I had a great deal in common in that way. I'm curious, in this book, is the baptismal moment that you're kind of describing where you're bringing people into this kind of uncomplicated, not fussy, beautifully looking, wonderfully tasting, Vegan like dietary moment. 

 

[00:15:40] Then how does your second book, 17 Vegan challenge for you? A really quick summary on that. It's curious about veganism, but already recoiling at visions of expensive Whole Foods stores, your grumbling stomach and an insatiable craving for cheese. Then this is the book for you in seven day Vegan Challenge. Bettina shows that with a little bit of planning. 

 

[00:16:02] Anyone can go vegan for a week. So it seems like you've almost taken on you've done the introductory with your first book, and in the seven one, you're almost challenging people to give it a shot. How would you define the two or how would you say the second one came along and kind of changed your scope or refined it of like plant based eating? 

 

[00:16:24] I think it's Somas. I think you're right in assuming that the seven day Vegan challenge came first because it's almost like happy food. Was this collection of recipes that I've cooked all all over the world on numerous wellness retreats. And it's sort of my last seven life as so the seven day Vegan challenge. So happy food is almost like. Not a Bible, but it's almost like the basis and the recipes are a little slightly more involved and complicated. And what I wanted to achieve with the seven day Vegan challenge was a simplified version of recipes that you can cook on an everyday basis. And then, yes, I would say it's the other way round. Even though happy food came first. If you have the opportunity to sort of now that both of them are out there, I would get seven day Vegan challenge first and then I would move on to happy food, even though they came out the other way around. So as an introduction to plant based food, I would definitely go with the seven day Vegan challenge and then sort of graduates a happy food where the recipes are more involved. There are slightly more complicated. This still really simple. However, the recipes in the seven day Vegan challenge are very simplified. And also I allowed myself to be okay with the fact that if you don't want to make hummus from scratch, you can buy a shot-put. Hamas, if you don't want to make Vegan cheese from scratch, then it's okay to buy shot-put Vegan cheese. It's almost like. It's a book for the people that either love cooking, but also for the people that don't, because there are options for both of you. Yeah, basically. So it's as involved or as not involved as you like it. So definitely say that that's a starting point. 

 

[00:18:35] And loving cooking, you know, and having time for it are two different things as well. You know, in the during the plague shelter in place, I've talked to so many friends who I would never assume loved cooking and they just adoring the time they're having with their ovens and all of these. This breadmaking craze that has swept across my country. This is our dough revolution. 

 

[00:18:57] But I think that it's also, you know, in every day lives in a lot of contemporary societies. The first thing that gets slashed out of our adult time curriculum is the time to cook. And so having these kinds of in between moments where you talk about with 70 Vegan challenge, like brekky on the go and then one pot cooking, like kind of all these all moments meet. And I think that that's interesting. I'm wondering how you feel. Well, I have to say, as a quick side note, you brought in cheese. And I'm as someone who goes, I go to Ireland frequently, I'm afraid, in Dublin. And when I first discovered the Vegan cheese in Ireland, as opposed to what they were producing in the States about six years ago, I could not figure out what the problem was. It's as though they had cornered the market. And it's because they have these Greeks come up into Dublin and create these big in restaurants and they made oh, they're big in cheese out of olive oil. And it was like this revolution. And in the States, they were still throwing every chemical under the sun to try and create that cheese. That wouldn't melt. It wouldn't do it. This is back in the day, right? 2007, whatever. And it was horrendous. It was it would make to make you kind of crawl away and cry. So there are certain things, I think, that begins, particularly all over the world, have misconceptions about different countries that brought certain attributes are still kind of clinging to other areas. And so it's interesting to note that there are products in other countries that I find most people would discover to be superior to other countries. And it's good to encourage people to kind of reach out because we haven't completely globalized yet. No one's come on this idea and perception. And I know a lot of vegans that don't understand how easy it is to make things like Vegan cheese so easy, you know, ridiculously easy and so much cheaper to do. 

 

[00:20:46] So, yeah, exactly. 

 

[00:20:48] And you can fine tune it if you like a little garlic, you can. You know, it's it's all about exactly from scratch that way. I won't get into. Well first of all, do you have a favorite Sophie's Choice. Do you have a darling recipe that you could cite for breakfast, lunch and dinner out of all of your recipes or maybe a favorite of this month? I was make my children choose a favorite color every single day because it can change. But they need decisiveness. 

 

[00:21:13] Yes. And as a favorite of three favorites from both of them. Both the books. 

 

[00:21:19] Yeah. Right now I'd I'd definitely say. 

 

[00:21:24] My non my non meatball's. A classic, and they are super versatile. I always them are those. I would definitely say my Kashi truffle cheese. It's indulgent. It's. I would say that it's one of those dishes that can turn people because it's good and it tastes like cheese and it's got offensive of truffle is brilliant. The last. Last, but not least, my pumpkin seed pesto. I make that on a weekly basis. I always have a tub of it in my fridge. It goes on everything, really, and on toast. Right. As a dressing drizzled on say, I mean, it's good and it's not free as well. So that's one of the other sort of angles that my recipes are clearly marked, whether they contain nuts or not. So I've had a lot of clients. Yeah, that's wonderful. I know that, Connie. Not so that's a good one. 

 

[00:22:35] Well, I'm glad you were able to pick three. I usually get feedback from people like that. Couldn't possibly do that. So I like that. You find. I don't like this, Ray. Yeah, for sure. 

 

[00:22:44] You brought up earlier and I want to climb into it. I usually always wait for somebody to drop the terms. I use the term Vegan a lot because that is how the podcast series was developed. It was investigating Vegan life and that umbrella in and of itself is riddled and troubled with a lot of terms that get argued over. And now that they're being incorporated into advertising and marketing arguments are industries, it's becoming even more convoluted with, you know, questions as to what sustains one term and another. I'm wondering where you personally define plant based versus Vegan. 

 

[00:23:18] So also assessing this recently with someone and it's been an interesting journey for me because what I forgot to mention is when when I started cooking at these retreats, I, I went Vegan and gluten free because I had a health scare. I think I was I think I must have been 26 or 27. I basically was told that I would never have children. I stopped taking contraception pills and then had a really, really difficult time. And I got to basically have something that's cold in the metro system, places to go recently. So that sort of. Opened up a box and at the same time, I was starting this new business. So I decided to go vegan and gluten free at the time and change my life. But not only were three foods, I mean, I changed a lot of other things as well. Slowly but surely. So it's it's one of those things that I don't like talking about too much because everybody's journey is individual. However, seven months down the line with this new business, I got pregnant again. Against all odds. So, yeah, I'm definitely not say, you know, change y'all. It was the food that, you know, made that happen because lots of different things happened during that period. However, it had a massive impact on my life. So, yes, let's go back to your question. 

 

[00:25:05] The Vegan version of. No, I think this ties in beautifully because it you know, how we come to veganism, I think is very, very important for people to understand as well. I've unearthed, you know, stories just in the first 20 episodes and then spending 10 years of my life prior to that. People come at it from spiritual points of view, from I've spoken to academics that became vegan because it increases their intellectual performance. Mathematicians, there are people that come to it to look more beautiful. There are people that come to it to perform better at sports. There's so many different reasons. And, you know, in disease or ailments being one of them, I love it because it creates a lot of unlikely vegans. You know, there are white fat stockbrokers in the United States that are becoming Vegan because they don't want to die. So it's like it's there's just so many other areas that can kind of come to it. It's it's a unifying thing. And so I think that yours coming at it from a health standpoint really does help our audience and people listening to your story and your cookbook. Understand, I and I think it ties into your relationship with the beauty and the vitality of the food that you were talking about earlier, that relationship that you have with it, having changed your health and made you feel better and and return you to an homeostasis is so important. And I'm wondering within that so there is this kind of argument between being Vegan and being plant based. And I want to know how you feel about it and how you particularly feel people in England where you're based and how they feel about it. 

 

[00:26:33] So, yeah, this was what I was going to come to the point that I was going to come to. So very recently, I I sort of discovered that with what's been happening recently in terms of, well, how huge veganism has become become and how big the label has become. I sort of feel like to pull yourself begin in some aspects it's all the animals. And then whatever is as long as whatever's on your plate hasn't suffered, then it's OK. It sort of goes under the Vegan label, whereas I feel that if you'll plump based, you'll you'll more environmentally focused and more sustainably focused rather than the suffering of animals. So you care more about where your food is sourced from and where it's come from than it just being Vegan. And that's kind of that's kind of how I define the difference between the two. And with with Tom faced, I would say some people that call themselves plant based. It means that they predominantly eat plant based. But if they do eat animal products, then they are ethically sourced. Can or cannot be included. So that's that's my that's my feeling of where it's going, it's more. I think the plant based time is more flexible than the Vegan. Yes. 

 

[00:28:11] And it's an interesting take on it, you know, coming back to the suffering and things like that of animals. There's a lot of companies putting out products right now, and I'm not sure if it will change, but they're attaching a plant based label to something that is not Vegan. And I think there are a lot of vegans, consumers out there. Originally, when plant based happened, it was a nicer way of saying Vegan people felt like it was separating it from some of the politics, that it seemed like guerrilla warfare in the past or something that was fringe and bringing it to mainstream. But since then, at least in the United States, there have been a lot of companies that will say plant based on the label. Vegans will buy that thinking. It's Vegan and it's not Vegan. It may mean merely that there's some plant based articles or ingredients within it. 

 

[00:28:54] Wow, that's very misleading. Yes, very misleading. Yeah, it is. 

 

[00:28:59] It's fun. 

 

[00:28:59] I was speaking to an Australian Vegan pub owner a couple of months ago before I got taken home for the quarantine. And she the same thing that they were having issues with that in Australia. So I think that that'll become interesting to see how people approach that. This was prior to the pandemic. And so with the pandemic, people may be backing away from some of those things. I don't know what your society and economy is doing exactly in Great Britain, but over here, you know, beyond me and beyond Burger and things like that are hitting an all time high as far as their stocks. The IPO is are really supposed to boom with these kinds of meat alternatives as of the fallout. 

 

[00:29:41] I'm wondering, do you do you feel like the Cauvin 19 pandemic has changed your relationship or the way that you will speak with your customers moving forward about plant based or vegan diets? Or do you think it's kind of just deepened what you already knew? 

 

[00:30:02] For me personally, it definitely is deep and what I already know, and I think a lot more people. 

 

[00:30:13] Going down the route of supporting farmers support, supporting farm to table, supporting basic ingredients. Going back to baking. Going back to fermenting. I think it's just opened up that door where you are forced to make things from scratch, whereas before you have the options to really not do that. And people were too busy. So I think it's had a really positive impact in the sense that people care a lot more where their food comes from. They've gained new skills in terms of cooking for themselves. I always say. Rather than labeling anything, I think the greatest self care act that you can do for yourself is to cook from scratch because you know exactly what's going into that pot. Set aside all labels. That is the one biggest thing that you can do for yourself. That is in terms of self care. Take the time to source good ingredients. Then they don't have to be expensive. And I cook from scratch. 

 

[00:31:20] Absolutely, I agree. And I personally feel like the energy created in the relationship with the food consumed changes the experience and the health thereafter as well. 

 

[00:31:31] I'm wondering, do you, as you do a lot of consulting, if you go to your Web site, you find a lot of information based on you. It's it's great media presence. All of those things as a food consultant. What do you foresee? First of all, what work have you done in the past and who are you looking to work with in the future regarding consultancy? 

 

[00:31:56] So I've done a lot of recipe development for different brands and for hotels or for the restaurant industry. 

 

[00:32:07] The way that sort of. 

 

[00:32:11] The way that I work and the way that where I'm headed, I think, is to find natural solutions and to support sustainable and environmentally friendly farming as much as possible. To me, it's more important to sort of envelop those side of things rather than promoting or supporting a product that is Vegan. And I think that is sort of the main with so many companies coming out with Reagen products. People sort of bypass how it's made, what it contains, where it comes from, what it supports, what it's packaged in. All of these things to me. Matter a lot. So I'm sort of coming at it from that angle of I want to know where my products come from or the ingredients come from. And simple companies that do good. 

 

[00:33:15] Yes, and I think that you are in good company. I think there are a lot of people here, if they're not there right now, they're headed in that direction. 

 

[00:33:23] And, yes, companies that help you source those things, you know, I think a lot of people care but just don't know how to allocate or figure out where those resources are. 

 

[00:33:33] Absolutely. And I do think that a lot of big companies are cashing in on the fact that veganism has become big and, you know, not to mention any big names, but there are a lot of companies that are, you know, dishing out vegan options. But then the way that the salt is sourcing their ingredients, all of the other products is, you know, horrific. And they're still supporting factory farming, J labor, et cetera, et cetera. So but this sort of winning in terms of of having a Vegan offering and people are buying into it. And, you know, it infuriates me because, yeah, I would I would never go and eat a vegan burger or a beacon fake chicken from those companies, because the other part of what they support is, isn't it great? 

 

[00:34:31] Well, and that's an interesting aspect, too. You know, getting back to returning very briefly to the conversation of Vegan versus plant based. There used to be an understanding when it was more of a my nute group of people that, you know, there was a lot of ethos that went behind something being Vegan. There was a sustainability normally attached to it. You had a responsibility. And there were all these deeper questions which made it difficult for people who were doing it, didn't care. They wanted the payoff of that difficult nature. And one of those things is, you know, going and getting a substitute chicken sandwich at Kentucky Fried Chicken here still supports all of the most horrific practices. Exactly. So that's what you're saying. And so I think that now that there's that choice, there is that murkiness. That's kind of creeping into what is clearly a global, you know, Vegan conversation. So and those things should be considered and brought in the forefront. You know, I had so many people reach on, say, are you going to go try it? 

 

[00:35:30] When they released it and I said, yeah, let's do that, it just exactly how little they thought through that, like, oh, why would she do that? 

 

[00:35:41] That would be furthering, you know, some irony. 

 

[00:35:44] Hundred percent. It makes no sense. It's like, no. Why would you want to go and try that? Why would you want to eat a bug that's been fried on the same grill as the meat bug is? Right. You know, it's just. No, no, no, no. 

 

[00:35:59] And I think once we have that conversation enough and funneling it through, I think that there will be people kind of putting those things together and the next facility. I'm an optimist and I believe in human nature kind of coming through. 

 

[00:36:11] And if we're gonna break through these original things great together as meat eaters off of it. But the conversation must always end with, like, ultimate accountability and transparency, which I think the food world and the United States has lacked since the 80s. You know, getting back to a place where we know exactly how many chemicals and preservatives we're eating or slathering on our skin and everything else is is coming. And I think it's going to be a game changer. At least that's my drive. 

 

[00:36:41] I'm wondering moving forward with you. What are your future goals, given that you have this kind of. We've we've spoken about, you know, your future efforts really, as you see yourself changing, getting into sustainable farming and practices and really continuing on that path. Have you looked forward to, like, your next one to three years of work and, you know, we'll be writing another book? If so, can you give us a like a preview or a snippet from that we'll be pushing efforts into? What are your next, like one to three years for all of your endeavors? 

 

[00:37:12] Yeah, so I'm writing a third book, so I'm doing that over the summer. It will come out probably next year, next autumn. So it takes it takes a long time to write a book. People don't realize this. So, yeah, I'm writing, but probably over the next sort of three months I run a chef's academy where I teach other people how to become retreat chefs. So I've got a seven year old and I've sort of eased eased in on my traveling and instead teaching what I know. So I do four courses a year, which is an intensive seven day. It's super intimate. There's only ten people on them. And basically, I teach you everything I know. I've learned over the sort of past seven, eight years. 

 

[00:38:09] So I'll be doing more of those. And growing my business in terms of having a. 

 

[00:38:15] Reach inspiring more people to include vegetables into their diets. Definitely zoning in and learning more about agriculture myself by going to visit farms and supporting them. 

 

[00:38:33] Also. Enveloping and sort of. 

 

[00:38:39] Going into waste free cooking, waste free is something that I've done. As an as a given. Because when you're in retreats, you are in a very sort of low budget, but you want to feed people as well as possible. So supporting vegetables that would normally get thrown out because they're not the right size, because they're not the right shape. So finding solutions on how to minimize that type of waste. And something that I've been toying with for a long time is opening up an outlet and not like a restaurant. But everything is going online now. But doing meal options so that you can sit on a subscription basis. But instead of offering meals that are just big and also using up wastage. So. And supporting organic and sustainable farming and also eating seasonally, because that is something that we sort of don't do as much as we should do because we've got access to so many different ingredients. We we sort of don't follow the seasons as much as we used to. 

 

[00:39:56] And that's something that I've read on that, because you have mentioned that. You mentioned that in your book. 

 

[00:40:00] And then I kind of I love the idea of it because I do think that there's a perception which I myself held for the majority of my life, that that eating seasonally was no longer even necessary for good health because we have these greenhouses all over the world that can produce food. Can you kind of in a nutshell, explain to the audience why eating seasonally is important for you? 

 

[00:40:23] Well, let's take the strawberry, for example. I mean, if you eat a strawberry in winter, it's not going to taste the same. And it's definitely not going to have the same nutritional value if it's grown in a greenhouse compared to if it's burned out on a field in the height of summer when it's supposed to grow. And weaving that weaving in organic farming as well. I think that makes a huge difference. And eating things that are local. So an apple that is grown close to home rather than Apple that has been picked two to three, four weeks earlier and stored and then brought to you is a huge nutritional difference and also a difference in taste and quality. So the closer things are grown to your house, the shorter the time for picking and the more nutritional value they hold. And I'm sure that you know that since we've industrialized farming from the 50s, there's a lot less nutritional value in our fruits and vegetables that have been flown over and grown. GMO is another worm hole that we can dove into. Kobe would be sitting here all evening. So all of those things matter. And rather than a lot of people think that eating healthily means adding lots of layers into your food and your cooking and going to supermarket and buying all these superfood tinctures. I'm of the opposite opinion. Simplify. Buy less. Buy better quality sources of things locally, as seasonal as possible. And you know, you'll get them for a better price as well, because things that are grown in abundance are usually better priced right, though. 

 

[00:42:24] Yeah, that's true. Anything in season is always far less expensive. Exactly. 

 

[00:42:29] And, you know, it's there's a joy of eating strawberries until you sort of feel like a strawberry during June and July and then you wait all year to have them and there's an E.. It might be a simple sort of naive thought, but there's a there's a beauty in that all waiting for asparagus season to come and eating lots of wonderful asparagus or blood oranges is another favorite season of mine. And then, you know, enjoy, enjoy the fruits. And vegetables at the height, they will taste better as well, you know, you'll be you'll be surprised how amazing certain things can taste when they eat up the right side. 

 

[00:43:18] I agree. I love that. Well, we're running out of time, Bettina, but I wanted to ask you one final question, and that would be a lot of people, particularly over the past 11 weeks, have taken stock in their own personal businesses. 

 

[00:43:33] They've kind of re conversed with themselves over their values and their personal life. And I'm wondering if you've had such a dialog with yourself. If you can offer up maybe two or three pieces of advice or axioms that you've kind of unearthed during this time of reflection that everyone has had regarding either yourself or your journey or anything like that that we kind of end on. I usually say three pieces of advice, but if there's one or two, we'll take that as well. Is there anything that you proffer up to yourself in order to encourage or make things more enthusiastic or even just pieces of sage wisdom that you've come to? 

 

[00:44:13] Through throughout this period or just in general, both, but usually throughout this period, throughout the past, yes, there's been a pause for everyone. 

 

[00:44:22] Yeah, definitely. Let's start with. Well, I definitely it's been good for me to pose, I think in the last sort of two to three years I've been I've had an incredible workload. And I look back and I think, wow, how did I do that? It's definitely made me stop and think and enjoy the little things and have time to do things that I didn't have time to do before. So the pause button has been good for me. Bushell And I think it's it's been good for a lot of people. Taking time to cook, taking time to bake, taking time to be with your family. I think we're all far, far too busy that we sort of it's good and things happen when we polls ideas. A born creativity is born. So that's been really good. Was of advice. I always say. Perseverance and not giving up. And. Finding something that you're really passionate about and sticking with it, because in today's society, that's got also to do with who I was talking about before, is not having patience so that we're too busy. Things take time. And I have patience to allow them to take shape and to persevere and have persistence to follow your dreams. 

 

[00:46:00] Absolutely. I like that. These are solid pieces. I'm wondering, you kind of dropped. Are you still on the same Instagram handle? And can you mentioned it for everyone in the audience who would like to follow you? 

 

[00:46:10] Yes, absolutely. So it's Bettina's on the school kitchen. Or if you just put Bettina's kitchen, you'll find me. And yeah, it's just like daily inspiration's. A lot of stuff that I cook or we eat at home. I'll cook for clients. 

 

[00:46:27] That's wonderful. Well, we're out of time, but I want to say thank you so much for speaking with us today. Bettina, giving us all of your culinary and philosophical advice. I do appreciate your time. 

 

[00:46:38] Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. And for everyone. Really appreciate it. Absolutely. 

 

[00:46:44] And for everyone listening, we have been speaking with Bettina Campolucci Bordi. You can find out more about her work on w w w dot Bettina's kitchen dot com. And until we speak again next time. Thank you for listening and giving us your time. 

 

[00:47:00] Remember to eat clean, eat well, stay safe and always bet on yourself function. 

Talking to Gina Bonanno-Lemos; the founder of 360 Health Connection, and award winning author

Today I am talking with Gina Bonanno-Lemos. Gina is the founder of 360 Health Connection, the award-winning author of What The Fork?: The Secret Cause Of Disease, the author of 13 Steps To A Cancer-Free Kitchen, and a brand new e-book titled, Fit After 40.

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. 

https://www.instagram.com/ginabonannolemos/ | https://www.facebook.com/360healthconnection/ | 360healthconnection.com

 

TRANSCRIPTION

[00:00:10] Hi, I'm Patricia. And this is investigating Vegan life with Patricia Kathleen. This series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Our inquiry is an effort to examine the variety of industries and lifestyle tenants in the world of Vegan life. To that end. We will cover topics that have revealed themselves as Kofman and integral when exploring veganism. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. You can find information about myself and my podcast at Patricia Kathleen dot com. Welcome to Investigating Vegan Life. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. 

 

[00:01:15] I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Gina Bonano Lemos. She's the founder and author of 360 Health Connection. You can find out more on her Web site at 360, Health Connection dot com. Welcome, Gina. Hi. How are you? I'm well. I'm so excited to unpack. You've got just a prolific history of two books. You have a Web site. You offer all sorts of services, coaching and advising. I'm I'm really excited to climb through everything that you're doing. Thank you for having me. Yes. And for those of you listening, I will read a quick bio on Gina before I do that, a roadmap of today's podcast so that you know where we're headed for my inquiries. I'll first look at Gina's academic background and professional history as it relates to her Vegan story and personal journey therein. 

 

[00:02:06] Then I will start unpacking 360 health, connections, ethos and philosophy behind the impetus of that launch. 

 

[00:02:14] And within that, I would like to get into her books. John has written two books and it has a third one coming out soon with the fork. The Secret Cause of Disease, three steps to a cancer free kitchen and the brand new e-book titled Fit After 40. I'll climb through those briefly and get the synopsis and maybe some interesting threads throughout those. And then we'll turn our attention to the Vegan training programs that she's offering through 360 health, as well as other avenues. And we'll turn our attention next towards goals and advice. We'll wrap everything up with advice that she has. For those of you who are either looking to get involved with her, follow some of her study or even practice Emina, emulate some of her career success. A quick, quick bio on Gina before we get started. Gina is the founder of 360 Health Connection, the award winning author of What The Fork The Secret Cause of Disease. The author of 13 Steps to a Cancer Free Kitchen and a brand new e-book titled Fit After 40. Gina is the creator of the Vegan Training Program. Your plant based guide. And she's currently in the process of creating a new training program specifically designed for women. The ultimate whole body reset. Gina is a dual certified in into integrative nutrition and Vegan nutrition and has worked and shared the stage with world renowned medical professionals and plant based leaders, including Dr. Michael Klaper, Dr. Joel Kohn, Dr. Garth Davis, Ocean Robbins, Gene Bauer, Jane Veles Mitchell and many others. And so some of those names may not mean a lot to people in the audience. And some of you may recognize them as the axiomatic pillars of kings and queens that they are. Gina, before we dove into all of your work and your research that you've done, unpacking all of that, I'm hoping you can draw us a brief academic and professional history that kind of sets the stage for who you are and what your brand currently is. 

 

[00:04:12] Sure, sure. I first studied integrative nutrition at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and that really is it kind of embodies what 360 Health Connection was founded on. So it kind of marries all lifestyle aspects of health and wellness. So your sleep, your stress levels, how your relationships are with with everyone in your life. You know, it's not just diet and exercise, although it does it does include that as well. But it really focuses on the entire person, you know, because we are really in our health is really the sum total of everything that's going on in our life. And every practice that we follow, we're doomed. So that was a great foundation across the board and gave me, you know, a lot of information and various subjects in regard to health. But I decided that I really wanted to focus on veganism and help people to achieve their goals, more specifically in the way that I found my health. So that's when I went back to the Vegetarian Health Institute and I took their vegan mastery course. So got certified in that took the portion of the course that that allows you to get certified. And that was primarily taught not solely, but primarily by Dr. Michael Klapper. He he was. The main physician, you know, that provided a lot of the education. 

 

[00:06:02] So absolutely. And I'm wondering, so your career, we've kind of glossed over it very, very quickly in the bio and an explanation of the roadmap for today. I'm hoping you can kind of put things in a chronological sense before we start diving into some of the issues. Did you write your book? Did you develop the 360 Health Connection first? It's a Web site. It also has a lot of different elements to it. A lot of services and information. So which one came first? In which order? And then can you kind of tell us what the Web site has on it so that we can get a sense for and then climb into it? 

 

[00:06:37] Sure. Sure. Yeah. I had started this site. I always really been into health and fitness and nutrition. But I most of what I believed was what's out there in the itoh. So, you know, what's popular and that you see in fitness magazines and so forth. And so that's what I thought health was. So that's how I thought you were supposed to be. Healthy weight, you know, lean meats and you exercised, you know, five or six times a week and so forth. And so it wasn't until my health really started going downhill. 

 

[00:07:19] I mean, it really hit its peak. I've never been a really healthy person. I was always physically fit, but not healthy. That's when I stumbled upon veganism and turned my health around. And that's when I decided to go back to school, essentially, and get my certifications. So the website started first, but it really took a turn towards veganism and, you know, really a focus on plant based diet. After I became certified and after my own health transformation. 

 

[00:07:57] Right. 

 

[00:07:58] I'm guessing because I have read what the fork and the secret cause of disease. And that chronicles a little bit in the beginning at, you know, and it's kind of sandwiched by these bookends of your journey. It's kind of placed within the format, if you will. And then all of your it sounds like your education, both formally and personal, has been like sandwiched in the body. In between that sense, it chronicles that. I suspect that it came after 360. What year was 360 Health Connection launched, do you remember? 

 

[00:08:33] I can't I'm not 100 percent sure. 

 

[00:08:38] But that's OK. Now, it's clear that it's the book came after that. 

 

[00:08:42] I think it's quite fascinating that you started this, you know, this health advice and connection and then kind of let it evolve with, you know, with your Vegan journey and enterprise, because a lot of people do that backwards. You know, they become Vegan and then develop. So seeing that transition play out is interesting. Really quickly, looking at like unpacking 360 Health Connection. If I pretend I haven't been there, it's right now and I hit your Web site. What are the first things I'm going to be presented with? Like, what are the different expertize information, all the different services that I will find? 

 

[00:09:22] Well, there's a I put a large emphasis on new studies that come out know because I'm not a physician, I have to be careful in giving medical advice. So I try to keep everything very factual and science based. And so I always note where I'm getting the information. But I really I find it fascinating to read news studies that come out so, you know, kind of a nerd in that way. But I'm constantly getting, you know, alerts from Google and getting new information, whether it be about, you know, how garlic affects cancer or things like that. So you're going to find a lot of that type of information on either specific compounds in foods that prevent and reverse disease or, you know, various studies, or then there are some recipes that you'll find and some opinion pieces. But for the most part, it's going to be most of that scientific information and new stuff that's been coming out. 

 

[00:10:33] Absolutely. And then there's information about different training programs and things like that, right? Your own personal services. Are there other links like how does it relate back to your brand? 

 

[00:10:45] Yeah, I actually have to update that. I haven't been working with clients one on one for quite a while. I had yeah, I had launched my online training program, which was your plant based guide. And then in two thousand eighteen, I actually turned it into a live event because people were saying, you know, this is great information, but I would really like that in-person connection. So I held a big two day health conference in Costa Mesa, California. 

 

[00:11:18] And it was this in-person or Facebook ever, OK? 

 

[00:11:22] I held it. I had it. The Hilton Hotel in Costa Mesa, California. And we had two full days. I had, I think, about six doctors that spoke and then six or seven other of us that that also spoke over those two days. So a total of 13 present presentations, but it was a huge success. Everybody really loved it. You know, they got a lot of time, which each with each of the presenters, we got to their books and mingle. We had a dance party and stuff like that. Excellent. So it was just it was a big undertaking and very expensive. And so, yeah, I'm kind of reimagining how I can do it so I don't lose everything. I do it again. And so, yeah, right now I'm in the process of redoing the online training program for people who still want to take that leap. 

 

[00:12:22] But then also focusing on my new project, which, as you mentioned, is specifically more for women. Yeah. And I've been around a plant based diet. 

 

[00:12:33] Yes. And I'm I'm obsessed. And I'm very enthralled with I have to say that your technique and how you approach all of your books and it sounds like even your educational format on your Web site as well as your techniques as. As an old school academic. I really love being, you know, thwarted with both personal opinion and backed up, you know, scientific advice to merit that opinion and to kind of cement it. And I want to climb through right now what the for the secret cause of disease. I've talked a little bit with you off the record and then mentioned briefly here. I really appreciate the fact that it's this and a great deal of scientific gathered information that it from the most powerfully profound studies and correlations and causations and things of that nature sandwich book ended, if you will, in your own personal journey and narrative. And so I'm hoping, if you will, really quickly, before we start getting into some of the questions or having you give us a synopsis of what the fork start us off with, what that book actually begins with, which is your own personal journey, starting from childhood all the way up until this diagnostics of early perimenopause. You know, at one point and your friends meeting that brought veganism into your life. Can you give us a brief story, if you will, of your personal Vegan story? 

 

[00:13:54] Sure. Sure. Yeah. I let as I mentioned, I had always been somewhat ill, you know, even as a child, I had a lot of ear infections and started as I got older getting sinus infections on a regular basis. And it definitely got worse after I had my son. I had him kind of young and it just seemed to put a lot of stress on my body. At least that's what doctors think. And so everything just got worse and worse. You know, most people grow out of allergies and asthma. Mine kept getting progressively worse. And so I got to the point where I literally was having a sinus infection every single month. And I would joke with people that it was like having a period because, you know, they'd say already want to go out Saturday. And I'm like, oh, let me check the calendar. Oh, no, I'm going to be sick that weekend. And they'd laugh at me, but it was true. I mean, I literally could, you know, count out the the weeks and. No. Oh, no. It's going to kick back in. And so is honest, you know, perpetual, a vicious cycle of antibiotics, which, of course, made me worse and destroyed my microbiome. And, you know, but I didn't know, of course, at the time. But it was just I was spiraling. 

 

[00:15:17] And so it was I was forty one actually, when I was just miserable and I had just had two back to back lung infections that were really severe. I was constantly using an inhaler. Or using a nebulizer. And I really was. I felt like I was rock bottom. I didn't know what to do. And as I said, you know, I always kind of studied health independently. And so I was doing all the right things right. Chicken and fish in turkey. You know, the lean meats and. And I always had fruits and vegetables. So I thought I was doing everything right. All whole grains. But I went and had coffee with a friend. And she's about 20 something years older than I am. And I hadn't seen her in a while. And so when she ordered her coffee and didn't want cream, I said, oh, are you intolerant? I was just thinking, you know, dairy intolerance. And she announces that, no, she had gone vegan. And by doing so, she had actually reversed her heart disease. She had gotten rid of her lifelong eczema. So this really you know, I had a mix of, like, thinking she was off her rocker. And then also very curious about this. And then when she told me that her boyfriend had reversed his diabetes by doing the same thing, that really, you know, kind of let me up. So started researching and the science was just undeniable. You know, it's just that I couldn't refute it if it was just so clear cut. So I kept researching and, you know, is kind of in and out and tell people use kind of the hokey pokey with me. One foot in. One foot out. Yeah. But when I finally made that emotional connection, you know, when it went from. Yeah, I know I should do it. I know it's probably right. But, you know, I always I always say, and I'm sure other people have said, when you want to do something, you'll find every way to do it and make it happen. And you don't want to do something, you're going to find every excuse not to. Yes. So that's where I was at when I was in the excuse phase. You know, my husband will never go for it. My kids will never eat it. It's you know, it can be too hard. And when I finally made the emotional connection due to the animal cruelty side of it, and that became part of my consciousness, that that was it. There was no turning back. I didn't care what I had to do. So I found my way and my health did a complete 180. So I went from one of the sickest people I know to three, literally three solid years without a single cold flu infection. Nothing. It was unbelievable. Somebody gave me a new body. 

 

[00:18:27] Well, it is setting in a remarkable turnaround because, you know, you have this instance you describe in the book where a doctor is just kind of paused with this, like, overwhelming moment of reading your chart and you're sitting there contemplating what he's going to be saying next. Like, you have a rare disease and he looks at you and says you're very allergic. And I was just this kind of understanding that you are allergic to everything under the sun. And that was going to be something that played out throughout your adulthood. Have your allergies have. Have they taken a lesser role or are they still prevalent? 

 

[00:19:00] Oh, no. It's unbelievable. I was somebody I had always been an animal lover my whole life. And because of my allergies, I couldn't have animals. I couldn't even go to someone else's house with an animal because I knew I would be sick and it would culminate in a sinus infection. You know, that was just the natural progress for me. So I now well, at one point we had three dogs. We we just lost one a year ago. But so now we have two dogs and now a cat, which is unheard of because their dander is actually airborne. And so I couldn't even hug someone who had a cat before because they're dangerous, not only airborne, but it's sticky. So it sticks to your clothes and your hair and the walls and everything. And so if I even hugged someone who had a camel, I would be so sick. I mean, using my inhaler down for weeks with a sinus infection. But, yeah, this one I mean, he sleeps curled up next to me every night. It's unreal. Remarkable. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 

 

[00:20:08] So looking at what the fork, you know, I've had a lot of opinion and summary over it. And just speaking with you now and I'm wondering how you as the author. 

 

[00:20:18] When you when you reflect back on writing, it's and and how would you describe how it's developed and the information it is conveying to your audience in a synopsis. 

 

[00:20:33] You know my well, my goal in writing it, because I think you always have to set, you know, your goals and the expectations for any project. I wanted it to be fun, but factual. And I you know, I believe I accomplish that from feedback that I get from people. You know, they do. 

 

[00:20:55] A lot of people will tell me that many books like this are so dry and, you know, hard to get through. So I definitely wanted to marry the, you know, both sides of my personality, really, because I have, like, a really goofy side of me that's like crazy and imaginative and, you know, kind of out there. And then I've got the grounded part that's factual. And, you know, let's look at the facts here, man. So, yeah, I would say it's got both of those. You know, I. I definitely wanted to. Let people see the science behind it and not just be my story. My opinion. I wanted them to know that this is you know, this is fact. This is science. 

 

[00:21:47] Yeah. And it's interesting because you don't just cover I find that a lot of books written and for great reason are written just covering one industry, you know, the slaughterhouse industry, the agricultural industry, the scientific study, research industry, the relationship to cancer and famous diseases and things of that nature. 

 

[00:22:05] And you really include all of it. And it's done by chapter. It's not just the kitchen sink, but you really do go through your personal vision with every single aspect that is in your life, from the cruelty to the environmental impact to the great studies from the China study all the way through, you know, Ornish and people that have done incredible studies and much more obscure, smaller ones in between. And it's interesting because I feel like that endeavor would be to encyclopedic to handle. But you've done it in a way that I felt very concluded with and I felt very much so. 

 

[00:22:42] Yeah. And I understand your voice as well as it as a Vegan. I think a lot of people think that it's those who love animals or those who want to help the environment. It's not this collaboration, you know. And I think that it's important. I want to climb now into three steps to a cancer free kitchen, which I'm not so familiar with. And so I'm hoping you'll start off there with launching into what it is and what you were trying to convey with that endeavor. 

 

[00:23:09] Sure. Sure. Yeah. That is that's an e-book. And so that's on my Web site for anybody who goes there right now. They can download it for free. That will be replaced with a fit after 40. E-book. That's coming up. So the 13 steps to a cancer free kitchen will be available for only a little bit longer. But really, I wanted to touch on not just a plant based diet and let people know, yes, of course, you can try to avoid or prevent and reverse cancer with a plant based diet, but also the other factors, because part of my journey and I referenced it in what the fork was that I was made aware of the Food Revolution Network and their incredible work that they do in their summits every year. And so there were so many things that came to light for me that I had never heard about in all of the fitness magazines and, you know, all of my travels all over the Internet about toxins and other things that really we don't even think about. And they are poisoning us every single day. And so I thought, you know, let me just do it. And I might write other books. Other book e-books as I go along. But, you know, I thought let me just focus on the kitchen floor right now and what different things in our kitchen are lurking that we don't even know about. We're just not even aware. But we're using them, if not on a daily basis. On a weekly basis. And they're affecting us. They're harming our children, our spouses, you know, all of our loved ones. And with just simple tweaks, just simple changes you can make. And it makes all the difference. 

 

[00:25:06] Yeah. Those hidden factors. 

 

[00:25:07] I think that that that'll catch even the most sage of nutritionists or health advocate or anyone, you know, those hiding, lurking moments I just spoke with at a Vegan and 100 percent organic cosmetic line distributor out of Paris. And he was saying the average woman by the end of her lifespan will have eaten two kilograms of lipstick. And if you research what is in most lipsticks, you would pass out. Oh, and he became aware of this when his daughter was coming of age. But it's really true that, you know, like looking towards the kitchen, I think even the most sage of us would have things that snuck in somehow. And we're not even aware of what they're doing and what they could be promoting. You know, let alone not helping to fight. And you talk in your book. 

 

[00:25:55] I would just quickly revisit what the fork, because you do talk about these genetic switches and this propensity, these triggers of, you know, you don't have to be a product of your genetics, but you can definitely help not trigger things that may be in latent and things that have arrived from in utero that we're now studying and understanding. But that linking back to this those things being in the kitchen without us knowing, you know, and and all of those factors. So now I want to turn towards what you just teased about. And I don't know how much you're comfortable relinquishing. I'm a come from a family of writers and asking them about their new publication is like getting the. Top secret codes out of, you know, the president tonight, but we'll go there and try for you anyway. The new e-book is called Fit After 40. And you do have an emphasis towards women in this one. Can you kind of let us know you're saying it's replacing three steps to cancer free kitchen? What to what end will it replace it? And what are you addressing with that? 

 

[00:26:57] So I've seen a need for women in particular, because so much of what I've come across on the Internet is just general nutrition information and general fitness information. You know, and I see a lot of men especially giving this information. And it just doesn't resonate for women and it doesn't help women. More importantly, because we have very specific needs, you know, our hormones are so different, so vastly different than men. And so, you know, you and your husband can eat the same exact things. And, you know, you'll gain weight and he won't because of our hormones. And, you know, here I am approaching 50 and it's that time, you know, unfortunately. And so, yeah, I started to notice changes in my own body. And, you know, I had a huge change, of course, from when I wasn't Vegan to when I went Vegan. But now I'm noticing more changes. And so I really wanted to help women with that. I wanted to address their specific needs. And I also recognize the need to really reach women because I believe that they are the heart of the home. I believe that they are really the ones who at least I know in my home I do this and most of my friends are this way. We're the ones that bring the new information to our families. You know, the ones who are more connected. And I don't know if that's because just as women, we naturally share more with our friends where, you know, men keep things more on the surface and women talk more about their health issues and their life and their stress. And, you know, those deeper issues, as they say, we we tend in befriend, you know, or the men or like the fight or flight. 

 

[00:29:09] And so I don't specifically address these hormone issues. Will you segregate it by age? 

 

[00:29:18] It's actually it's for women over 40. And so, as the title implies of the e-book. So it all kind of ties together the ultimate full body reset. But it really it encompasses my early learning, really, with integrative nutrition. So it talks about things such as stress and sleep and really but it all really centers around the one core issue that all of our health stems from. And there's like a feedback loop with all of these things with our microbiome. So really, that is the core of our health. You know, as poverty's once said, that, you know, our gut is is where a disease begins. There's a direct relationship between all of these issues that I started out learning about and our microbiome, our gut health. And so it is really the make or break of our health overall and. 

 

[00:30:23] Yeah, I think that those are avenues to two conversations. And people feel like vegans or they used to is this island, you know, you belong done it or you didn't. And I what I'm loving to see now is this blending of the conversation where we get brought in. And, you know, I think that the heavy Yoshie and stew with the macrobiotic diet that was largely vegan with the exception of some poultry. My own father did that when he was fighting cancer 15 years ago. 

 

[00:30:50] And I think he's heard her stage four cancer with it. 

 

[00:30:56] Macko Yeah. And it's I mean, the Ashie Institute is the one that I'm familiar with, but it's powerful. It's got a lot of research behind it and it's very akin to the Vegan way of life. But I'm interested in these annexations, you know, these these moments in dialogs between issues or disease and then the Vegan, you know, diets and way of life and way of looking at things, because I think it's becoming less of an island and more of a peninsula. I'd like to get it back to the mainland. And that's all of our goal. You know, one day. But I think just getting to that place where you open these dialogs about hormones, gut health that you mentioned when I first started hearing about that. Back in 2017, when it was kind of getting into the rage, you know, people were kind of promoting it. Doctors were really looking at the microbiome of the gut, like really getting into Oliver's kimchi. You know, how do we increase it? What do we do? Of how pro antibiotic strip you of it, all of these things. I remember there wasn't a whole lot of conversation about diet outside of like what promoted it. And a lot of it was around dairy, like, you know, gotta have that yogurt, that probiotic yoga and different things like that. So I think people linked it to the dairy industry, which is ironic because a lot of the studies that come out sense have been and very disparate relationship with the dairy industry and the microbiome. And so to enter that conversation and get a seat at that table is crucial because the gut health is in control of so much more than other than, you know, Socrates and people like that hypothesized. 

 

[00:32:27] I think that food as a medicine has been looked at by religious institutes for hundreds of years and kind of thought of in different ways, stay with this, eat more that like all the way down to diets in the 80s that were insane. 

 

[00:32:42] And now we're still having that same conversation. You know, food is a medicine. Food is the leader. But we're doing it in a very different way. You know, I'm looking at the gut and things like that. And I'm curious with with all of your knowledge, you taken a great deal of in in what? The fork returning. You kind of have this. You have narratives as to how politics play into it. Like I like I said, there is no stone. You did not unturn, at least for me. And you talk about, you know, the World Health Organization, you talk about our current and this is in the United States. But you do talk about these world organizations on the whole and subsidies and people that are all in all those power places, power. And I'm wondering how you feel, given the current climate of the Cauvin 19 pandemic, what would you hypothetically looking at, given that you have this breadth of history with them understanding how these different political climates have played in? What change do you see like on the forefront? 

 

[00:33:47] You know, well, there's what I what I'd like to see and what I do see. You know, I know that just about a week or two ago, Cory Booker and Elizabeth Warren actually introduced a bill and they are calling for the end of the majority of factory farming. I believe it's 2040. I personally think that's too far away. Based on what we're witnessing with climate change, you know, factory farming, it accounts for about 25 percent of our methane emissions. So that's huge. You know, it's it's more than all of our transportation sectors combined. So we really need to make that connection. And that's you know, it's one of the reasons why I covered all of the topics in my book, because I found that in talking with people, you know, what's important to me may not be important to you. I mean, that's the way it is and anything in life. But, you know, like for for my husband, he is much more focused on the climate change aspect of why he should reduce or remove meat, you know, from his diet. Whereas for me, like I said, the health issue was the first thing that got me interested. But what tipped me over the edge was the animal cruelty aspect. But I also am a very big environmentalist. So, you know, for me, it hits on all three points of data, the positive reasons for going plant based. Yeah, I really I was on a radio show recently and as I told them, I think we're missing an opportunity here. I think that we can take this time, especially right now with Cauvin, to show people that you not only don't need animal protein in your diet, but it's actually better for us. It's better for your health. You know, we've seen now with people not moving about, you know, transportation going down, with factory farming slowing, you know, the emission levels have reduced. So there's clearly a human impact. It's clearly being driven by our actions. We have to start putting our health and the health of the planet ahead of our greed, ahead of our our tastebuds, to be frank. You know, there's there's an absolute maybe there's a need for it. And I believe it will happen whether we want it or not with us or whether it's, you know, something that we purposely do or whether it just happens because we have no other choice. 

 

[00:36:43] And the legacy of that, I do want to say, I think that it will happen either way. One can be pretty and one can be really, really nasty. And the legacy is only going to impact our children and our grandchildren. It's really about the empathy and compassion you have for your own kin. You know what we hand down to them. Even this this required taste of meat is unsustainable to have in their diet three times a day for seven days a week. That won't be possible. And so giving them a, you know, a desire for that is giving them an addiction to something they will not be able to have that the lack of love in that exchange. I don't think any parent or loved one would want to inflict on the next gen. Jason, and I do think that it is in in the mix, as do you know, the statisticians and people running these numbers. I'm curious with so here's my take. I was interviewing vegans globally and I was in Australia prior to the pandemic breaking out in early February. It had broken out, but nobody was taking it seriously, certainly not in the United States, not to the sense of come home shelter in place. Right. And I was interviewing a Vegan restaurant owner and she was saying, what I love is the change in just as she was the sage Viji and she'd been vegan for 40 years. And she said the Vegan prototype is no longer a prototype. She said there's unlikely vegans coming out of all the woodwork. What she meant that by that was that there were so many people with health concerns. You know, from allergies to heart disease that we're finding the vegan diet. And then within that, discovering that the diet was benefiting the planet and all of these other things and then became these very unlikely evangelists about veganism. And she was like, it's these weird, like stockbroker's that are coming in. Like, are you aware of how well it benefits? Like, you should promote that in your restaurant? She said they're just like these people that would never probably have considered it in the past. And I kept talking to her about like these wonderful avenues that are out of tragedy. Unfortunately, we're bringing veganism to the forefront. And since the pandemic, I have wondered if there would be this, you know, kind of like reshift to like we should look into that, you know, and if there would be a relabeling of it because people didn't want to join that label, you know, of veganism, if if people would go to another area that brought up the distinction between people calling things plant based and things that are vegan. And I want to climb into that with you because it's it's a heated topic right now and for a very good reason. There's an economical factor to it. There's an emotional factor. But for you yourself, how would you define the differences between plant based and Vegan those terms? 

 

[00:39:29] You know, I think me personally, I define a Vegan as someone who really embraces the entire lifestyle. So, for example, I don't wear any animal products. You know, I don't buy leather, you know. I have things that I purchased in the past before I became Vegan. So I'm not going to throw them out. You know, because I think that's disrespectful to the animal that gave its life. So, you know, I'll use those things and tell they no longer are usable, but I don't purchase anything new. You know, if I buy a handbag or piece of furniture or whatever the case may be, I don't choose. They it has to be a faux leather, if you know or or another type of fabric. So for me, it's a whole Vegan means the whole lifestyle. Right. It means that you don't exploit animals in any way. You don't go to a circus or you don't go to the zoo. You don't play into that at an economic level anyway. Plant based. To me is more just a diet, you know, a dietary choice. And it can vary between people. I know people who are 100 percent plant based, and that's great. And then I know people who are mostly plant based, you know, but they still purchase me in a leather shoes or whatever the case may be. They don't. For them, it's not. And I found that most of the people who are just plant based and not Vegan for them, it's more so about the environment or, you know, wanting to stay healthier, you know, wanting to level up on their health and things like that. But it's not necessarily about the animal cruelty or anything like that. So that that's what it means to me. But, you know, I've heard other people with different takes on it. I try to use just the word the term plant based because I know that it doesn't rub people the wrong way the way Vegan necessarily does. So, you know, to me, it's like it all means the same thing, basically. I mean, you just you're making better choices, you know, not for you, but for the environment, for the animals, for you. 

 

[00:42:02] Yeah. 

 

[00:42:03] I wonder about products that are starting to use the terms plant based for things that aren't Vegan. I concern myself in this factor only because I love the written language and language in general and how we define and clarify our terms. But and I wonder about confusing and conflating things. And marketing is always a step ahead any of our philosophy endeavors or anything else. And there's been this acquisition of the word plant based to include on packaging just like fortified, you know, with vitamins that again in the 80s. Let's fortify everything. And it's been acquired at an alarming pace and it's been put on products that are both unhealthy, disease causing and not Vegan. And I concern myself with because most of my Vegan colleagues and, you know, and Warriors' and people fighting the good fight and putting the word out there are very akin to calling something plant based. And I was as well until I started recognizing that there were so many different products assigning that on their label. And it concerns me because then we're gonna have to do the same thing we did with vitamins, which was reeducate that nothing needs to be fortified. That's naturally healthy right now when we strip it of everything beautiful. That's when you need to go and inject things back into it. Yeah. So you're right. 

 

[00:43:29] I've even seen them use the term plant based on eggs. You know, they say plant based chickens like. Well, they've always been I mean, you know, actually, that's not true. You know, there are some instances on the factory farms where they feed them back. You know, they're dead chicken friends, you know, disease trends. So. But for the most part, if if you were to let hens and chickens out in the wild, they are plant based. That's all they eat is, you know, it's the grass and so forth. 

 

[00:44:08] Yeah. Organic, naturally raised, bottled at the source. Where else are you gonna bottle it? Just like I can go on and on. Yeah, I see it with commercials and just think, what are you doing? But it's a whole nother topic. So I'm wondering, looking forward and this has changed for. 

 

[00:44:28] Lot of people, given the current climate, and for some people, it's magnified their scope and for others it's had a complete pivoting effect. But what are your future goals for the next one to three years? You're coming out with a fit after 40, which I'm excited to hear about the launch of. And what else of will you be working on for the next one to three years? 

 

[00:44:51] That's a that's a good question. So I. I really have felt like I'm being kind of torn in two directions. And it's funny that you mention in what the four how I bring up the issues around politics, because, you know, I do see so much in our country going in the wrong direction as whether it be with diet or, you know, our health in our in our health industry, in our country is just ridiculous. You know, I see so much needless suffering and so many changes that need to be made. And I just don't see fighters. And so, yeah, I'm kind of I'm kind of teetering on the edge. Or do I run for office? You know, I have a friend who also was Plant Basch, also an author. She ran for Congress in 2018, didn't didn't win her seat. But she's now working for the man who did. And she's been pushing me because she knows that I am someone who is like a dog with a bone. You know, I don't let up on things and I fight. I just I care about people. I care about the animals and the environment. And I you know. 

 

[00:46:17] And you listen to the science. Yes. Yes, you do. I endorse it right now. 

 

[00:46:24] Yes. I you know, it's it's tough because I, I like I want to help people with a plant based diet. But then I think with my you know, my time and my effort be better spent doing it by implementing laws and changing really the way things are going down. Because I you know, I see all these people who are panicking, you know, they're losing their health insurance. And yes, that is terrible and it's scary and it's horrible because there are so many sick people. And I just think, gosh, if they only knew what I know, you know, if they only knew that they don't need that necessarily that medication, I'm not telling anybody, go off of your medication. You have to do what your doctor tells you. But there's so many other things that can be done. You know, one thing that you mentioned about the current climate that I was gonna say, you know, there's there have been studies done when we've been in times of war. And they've actually noticed that in times of war in the past when meat consumption went down, just because there we weren't able to manufacture enough or people didn't have the money to purchase it and eat it on on a daily basis, as people do now, the disease rates mimicked. They actually if you charted the disease rates went down. You know, they coincided with the the reduction in meat consumption. So I think my cat here. Yeah. So, yeah, it you know, there's like I said, such an opportunity right now for people to see that there's a better way. There are other things that can be done and prevention is just so crucial. 

 

[00:48:17] You know, I always tell people it's so much easier to prevent disease and illnesses than it is to reverse it, though. And and to you know, like you were saying, people care so much about their families and their children and you want to get toxins out of their life. And if people only understood that epigenetic component because everybody thinks, well, my sister had it and my mother had it, my aunts, my grandmother, my father who ate whomever in my family. So I had those genetics. Yes, you have those genetics. But on an epigenetic level, it is literally like flipping a light switch. You can turn those on or off. And it's not a hundred percent sure that you're not going to get it, but it reduces your risk. So, so much. And so if people just understand that one component and how it's related to a plant based diet, I think everybody would go plant based to, you know, if they understood it. It's not about your genetics. You are in control and controlling. Your destiny. Up to 90, 95 percent of the time. Yeah, I think so many more people would make that switch. 

 

[00:49:36] The alleviation of suffering would create converts on the greatest scale as well. You know, we have so much sickness in this country that it should at very least give it a shot. If you're going to try a new controversial drug that has more side effects than the day is long. Why not try the Vegan diet for a month? Like. What have you got to lose? And I think that there's fear in one and there's ease and another. And that begins with education and and accessibility and all of those things to that education. You know, these grassroots movements where my father suffered polio as a child and he was around when people were still knocking on the door saying, have you vaccinated your children? You know, and eradicating our country of polio was like this grassroots effort where you had to reach people in general, communities, people who weren't dialed in and stuff like that. 

 

[00:50:28] And so I think that educational platforms need to come from both grassroots, all the way to high tech. And I think we need Vegan lobbyists. You know, we've got to get people like walking Phenix and people that are recently angry about the tragedy and everything that's going on, pool our money together and get people in Washington that are willing to make it tasty and chic and exciting and get people to sign onto our doctrine as much as they are with the people that are, you know, controlling all these subsidies for dairy, eggs and flour. 

 

[00:50:58] And this has one incredible group that is doing that and has done the most, I think, for all of us is Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. And actually, Dr. Barnard is the one who wrote the the back in doing the endorsement on the back of my book. He's the founder of CRM. So I encourage everybody to support their work because they are getting rid of animal testing in labs. But even more than that, they've exposed so much corruption. You know, as far as like the egg industry basically coming in and, you know, writing their own laws essentially and telling the public that it's healthy to eat eggs all the time. But yet they were the ones the egg industry is the one who's conducting the scientific research that proves this supposedly. You know, and this is going on constantly, whether it be with our prescription drugs, whether it be with our foods, you know, additives that are allowed every pretty much everything, you know, that affects us on a healthful level. There is there is just such a revolving door of the lobbyists that, you know, push for these things, push for the corporate interests, and then they go and you get a job in the you know, in the government. And then they actually are working to implement the laws. And, you know, it's sickening. 

 

[00:52:34] It really is. Right. Yeah, it is. And flipping. And I get sick, you know. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I think realizing that paradigm, I'm an optimist. 

 

[00:52:46] Despite how much I read, I keep that flag above my head and I believe the day is upon us. You know, I think that we're here and it is the day of health reckoning is here. And it's about a thousand years later than perhaps one would have thought when hearing the old philosophers talk about food being thy medicine and things of that nature. But we're here, and I do believe there is going to be a shift, an awakening, and it's going to cross the aisle. You know, I don't like Kramer at all. I think his stock advice is even a little questionable. However, if, you know, Jim Cramer is touting, you know, this like meat alternative, this impossible burger, like all of those things. Yeah. Doubling down. If someone as unlikely, let's put it as him, is touting it. We're getting there like we are. This is crossing borders. We're crossing oceans. I can feel the annexation happening. It's good. 

 

[00:53:44] I'm wondering. But moving forward, we're running out of time. 

 

[00:53:48] But I wanted to ask you, given that you you do cover all of these areas and to my golly, you're looking into political conference and things like that and possibly considering a station there in yourself. I'm wondering if you can impart a few pieces of advice that you have offered or proffered your close community over the past few weeks regarding the future or things to look towards or change. That's possible. 

 

[00:54:17] Do you have an inner monologue or monitor or anything like that that you kind of keep going with cash? 

 

[00:54:25] That's a good question. You know. Yeah, I do what I what I really go back to is what I was saying is that I think all women are the key. I think women bring so many new ideas to the family, and that's really key in getting more women in power. You know, more women awake to these ideas to understand that the choices you're making are not just affecting you, they are affecting your unborn children, even, you know, going, oh, that's my dog. One of them, you know, going back to the toxin issue. You know, they've done studies to and they found that even a brand new, you know, newborn babies already have. I forget how many hundreds of different toxins in their blood. And it comes from their mother's umbilical cord. So we're pantsing so much on to our children, more so than, you know, our choices and our DNA. So it's. Yeah, I mean, if if you won't do it for you, do it for those around you, because, you know, having lost my mother in 2018 to cancer and knowing that just with changing some of her lifestyle choices, she would probably still be here. I could probably say ninety nine percent. I'm sure that she would still be here. And I thought about her a lot in creating this new training program, because so many of the pieces and components and the different modules that I teach them. If she had embraced these things, she would still be here. 

 

[00:56:24] So I would just say, if not for you, for. For everybody around you. And, you know, as they say, we're not living longer. We're dying longer. So we may be here on Earth for more years. But what are how are we living? You know, what are we enjoying those years? You're spending them in a wheelchair in a hospital bed. 

 

[00:56:51] So that's interesting. I love that. And I love the emphasis that women are the key, you know, and that kind of started this this idea for you. And it's auspicious that we just passed Mother's Day. And and I'm hoping that the legacy and the knowledge that you have and the loss of your own mother can go out and spare other peoples, you know, and it is the most painful part for me about discovering and speaking with expertize such as yourself is we talked off the record, but some of the most difficult, you know, conversations I have on the Daily are with these personal interactions with family and friends that simply don't want to have that conversation and wanting to help without ruin relationships. It's a it's a tricky dialog. We're out of time today, you know. But I want to say thank you so much. I know you're incredibly busy and I really do appreciate your time. 

 

[00:57:45] Thank you so much for having me. 

 

[00:57:46] And sorry about the the howling in the background, why there's there's no other podcast they're more welcome on. This is a Vegan situation. They should be in camera. 

 

[00:57:56] They're probably upset with you for that. And shame on us for everyone listening. 

 

[00:58:03] I want to say thank you so much for your time. We've been speaking with Gina Bonnano Lemos and she's the founder of 360 Health Connection. You can find out more online 360 Health Connection. She is also the author of What The Fork The Secret Cause of Disease. She has an e-book. There's three steps to Cancer Free Kitchen, which will be replaced shortly with fit after 40. I encourage all of you to jump on and look at her work. As I said, one of the best reads I've done in a long while, and I am I'm a bit of a nerd. Thank you. And for everyone listening, thank you for giving us your time today until we speak again next time. 

 

[00:58:44] Please be advised by myself and my love and compassion. Stay safe. Stay well. And remember to always bet on yourself.

Speaking with ALL TIGERS Founder Alexis Robillard

Today I am speaking with Alexis Robillard. Alexis has been working in the cosmetic industry for over 15 years in Paris, working for several international fragrance or skincare brands including Dior, Burberry, Jimmy Choo fragrances. He is now the founder of ALL TIGERS:  100% natural, vegan and ferociously stylish lipsticks and nail lacquers.

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. 

https://en.all-tigers.com/

@alltigers_organics

 

TRANSCRIPTION

[00:00:10] Hi, I'm Patricia. And this is investigating Vegan life with Patricia Kathleen. This series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Our inquiry is an effort to examine the variety of industries and lifestyle tenants in the world of Vegan life. To that end. We will cover topics that have revealed themselves as Kofman and integral when exploring veganism. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. You can find information about myself and my podcast at Patricia Kathleen dot com. Welcome to Investigating Vegan Life. Now let's start the conversation. 

 

[00:01:13] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Alexis Robillard. 

 

[00:01:20] He is the founder of All Tigers, which is a hundred percent natural Vegan and ferociously stylish lipstick and nail liqueurs line. You can find them online at e n dot all hyphen tigers' dot com. That is e n dot all hyphen t ig e r s dot com. Welcome, Alexis. 

 

[00:01:42] Thank you for having me. Absolutely. I'm very excited to climb through. 

 

[00:01:46] You the first French Vegan company that we've spoken to. I've spoken to Irish and Australian. So I can't wait to climb through everything. And for everyone listening. I'm going to read a bio on Alexis to give everyone a good platform for where he's coming from. But before I do that, a roadmap of today's podcast will first look at Alexis's history and brief background on academia and his prolific professional life in the cosmetic and beauty industry. And then we'll start unpacking all tigers. The impetus for why it was founded, as well as some of the logistics of the who, what, when, where hot while and why, such as funding, co-founders, those types of things. And then we'll get further into the philosophy and the ethos behind the line, why Alexis chose to make it Vegan the story behind it and all of those questions within that. We'll wrap everything up with advice that Alexis may have, an information he can share with those of you who are looking to get involved with what he's doing, purchases, items and perhaps emulate some of his career success. A quick bio on Alexis before I pepper him with questions. Alexis is a French citizen who has been working in the cosmetic industry for over 15 years in Paris, working for several international fragrances or skincare brands including Dior, Burberry, Jimmy Choo fragrances. The idea came to him when his pre-teen daughter started to get into makeup. 

 

[00:03:07] He noticed that it was either really trendy but not very green or green and not really trendy. And there was also a kind of Vegan challenge. The Vegan claim often used as camouflage for highly synthetic formulas. Why not have both? Alexis asked himself. Plant based formulas and Vegan  formulas. 

 

[00:03:27] He then realized that all women around him were confronted with the same exact issues. That was the starting point for all Tiger's natural Vegan and ferociously stylish makeup. So, Alexis, I love that the impetus and I really look forward to kind of unpacking all tigers and get further into the story about what you've discovered with your daughter, with the information you have on your website. But before we do that, could you draw us a history, a brief professional history and academic background? I mean, you were hanging out in Paris at dawn, Burberry and Jimmy Choo, some of the iconic moments of makeup, cosmetics and fashion. Can you kind of dress the history of your professional life bringing you to all tigers? 

 

[00:04:10] Yes. Well, I have worked for 15 years in the cosmetics industry, so much in marketing positions for beautiful brands, as you said. So I started that perfunctory job as a young product that people are parents in care and fragrances. And then I moved to a license to of Burberry and Jimmy Choo fragrances, which is in Paris as well. And finally, I worked for a few years for French brands like Issues Can Care and Hope to get into the French wellness brand that are sold in pharmacies in Europe. So it might not sounds like it, but when we have my back, when that actually I've worked on many projects that were linked to natural beauty formulas. But as you may know, the this kind of project where I was never launched into WhiteWave is a way to focus to the rockets were not ready maybe or consumers were not ready. So over these years, I had some frustration that I was quite convinced that we could do much better on this on natural plant based formula. That's why I actually I I came at a point where I wanted to watch a more personal story. And this is where the idea of all Tiger's natural makeup came up. 

 

[00:05:19] OK, so let's get into the logistics. Get those out of the way. When was it founded? 

 

[00:05:24] Did you have any other founders and did you take any kind of financial funding, be it loans or venture capitalists or tigers? 

 

[00:05:34] No, we are a small team of sweet people to David. It was actually your own near to your story. I started at the end of 2017. Well, actually, I found a supplier of the ideal supplier, Faltu, to work on natural makeup. And it was purely self-funded at the beginning, know in 2017. And I waste a little of money on the way. But still, it is Stela. I worked on a valve that actually financed most of our spendings now. So. So, yes. So we'll launch the actual launch came after a crowdfunding campaign. So it was planned at the beginning, at the end of 2017, beginning of 2018. I started the project and actually I did two quotes on this campaign. At the end of 2019. And then I was always there to look for money under way. But most of our spendings today are friends by our turnover and organically. 

 

[00:06:35] OK. And I'm wondering, finding I know Vegan companies in the United States go through a plethora of venues and there are different indexes. They find their manufacturers and distributors and things like that. 

 

[00:06:48] What was the journey like for you researching people to help you manufacture Vegan products? How is that interviewing process where there are a lot to choose from? Well, very few, actually. 

 

[00:07:00] I wanted to make makeup that could be at the same time so natural. And again, as we said, as you said before, actually you can do Vegan when it's one of the Coxsone synthetic ingredients. But I wanted to be natural makeup and natural formulas. So it was quite complicated here because it's not an expense, as you find everywhere. It's only a few suppliers in Europe doing plant based makeup. And again, makeup is on the other side. So actually, that was very few they that to play football. So I did some interview. As you said, it was quite some research, but at the end of the day, you don't have so much choice. So, yeah, what is great is that actually it was love love at first sight with a supplier. So at least on a personal level, we were super in line. And they're quite easy to actually grant the some vision. 

 

[00:07:47] Absolutely. And you're drawing up an interesting point, and I'm glad for that clarification. I kind of want you to enumerate on that, expand further for our audience. It's it's something that your website addresses very elegantly. 

 

[00:07:59] But there is an absolute distinction between something being Vegan and still very synthetic and processed. You have this emphasis towards 100 percent natural. Can you kind of speak to those differences or how they go? Hand-in-hand, but not necessarily always. 

 

[00:08:14] Yes, of course. Actually, when I when I started in the cosmetic industry, we were not questioning that much. The formulation itself, actually, cosmetics have a long history of synthetic ingredients that are easy to supply of debate over time. So the majority of cosmetics is city based and natural ingredients are quite an exception, actually. And there is also the question of animal derived ingredients like, you know, collision yellow and see so much more. I got interested Step-By-Step in Green Beauty, but I was super convinced that we should do both, actually. So at the same time, it's more natural ingredients and also not using animal derived ingredients. So I think that, yes, the main challenge is actually to do both. You say if I just use the example of lipstick, for instance, this is that a woman would eat up to two kilos of lipstick of our lifetime. So you would expect most brands to select very wisely their ingredients, particularly super healthy. But when you look into the ingredient list on the lipstick packaging, there is nothing you would like to put on. I don't know your daughter's leap's or your models or your wives or your sisters. It is quite nonsense. It's two kilos of crude oil in its petrochemical based silicones. It's very a lot of questionable chemicals, ingredients and animal derived stuff as well, which is quite. Here, when you read on the level of the packaging. So, as you say, it's when went in the lipstick, for instance, on animal derived ingredients, you will find beeswax or these products often come from far away where the conditions are quite controversial. These are raised in the box and said with cause and no flowers, no query, no nice beekeeper in love with me. So it is unethical. For once in a lipstick, you can also find a wet pigment called the chow mein, which does not Vegan it comes from female Chinese. So there the sun dried and crushed. So another ethical issue, you don't really want to see the animal or insect to actually create a lipstick. And we want to put actually that on your lips, so. The alternative would be to just replace banks into thinking we just have a 100 percent synthetic lipstick. But it is the same actually you don't want to eat two killers of synthetic ingredients. So you see what was important for me. You ready to get to natural end again and make only Vegan, which also could mean actually. It really is. 

 

[00:10:49] And this is where the Vegan as natural 100 percent kind of meets up with it. 

 

[00:10:55] There is a parallel in the food based world where people are talking about being whole plant food based vegans as opposed to just being vegan. There's that junk food vegan person out there and there's this parallel after I was researching the work that you've done in your company at all, Tigers, and I was looking into and kind of rethinking. I had been taught from a very young age that to have a you, it was impossible to have a vegan cosmetics line because there was nothing that created the preservatives that the items would tarnish or become rotten before one could use them all. And there weren't medium's platforms to deliver the same consistency on. And there was this kind of understanding, even as you know, as someone who is very well versed in the Vegan community, that there was just an inability to have cosmetics be 100 percent natural and Vegan you could have them Vegan, but they were going to have these chemicals in them and things like that. And it does sound as you're describing everything out there that isn't 100 percent natural and or Vegan it sounds like there aren't any mediums left, the people you're working with, the people that are, you know, manufacturing it. Are they flagships? Are they people who are like the first in their industry? Or are there a lot of companies out there that have these alternative ingredients that we just don't know about? 

 

[00:12:14] I think it's you have a lot of alternatives and you have a lot of brands working on that. But as you say, it's much more like local small brands. It's never like to big luxury brands, probably because actually it's not as easy to. Created an industrial process for very large frontages on a natural formula, because actually it requires some specific attention. And you can have very fast process, for instance. So I think that's why actually most of the companies don't want to put there, because it would actually raise the costs because, of course, natural ingredients are more expensive than most of the synthetic into alternatives. And also, it's as impact on cheating, on industrial pressure as and so on. So it makes it much more complicated. And if it's complicated, it's more costly. So I think that's a reason why it is still small brands or local brands. It's more complicated to industrialize a product for sure. It would be more costly. So natural ingredients are much more costly as well. So I think that the secret of it and why actually it still is a small companies that actually go for it because it gives even the consumers that they want to invest in the consumers. 

 

[00:13:34] Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious. And you're and I want to restate what you said, because I read it on your website and gasped. 

 

[00:13:41] And the average woman will consume, ingest, swallow two kilos of lipstick in her lifetime, which, you know, and I had never even really clarified. Even the most natural of lipsticks, whether or not I want to take two kilos of that going through my digestive track over my lifetime. And your story is interesting. It starts with your daughter coming of age and getting into cosmetics and all of that. You kind of speak more to that. How did that whole thing transition into you kind of thinking about what products you did want her using? 

 

[00:14:15] Yeah, actually, the idea of all tigers came, as you said, it was my daughter. She is 14 today. And so she was a teenager at the time and she was planning summercamp. And, you know, at the end of a summer camp, there was a party. And when you were eleven or twelve, you planned this event as if it was the Emmy Awards night. So. So she was looking for a lipstick. I'm joking. How serious? 

 

[00:14:39] And when we looked together, I was quite surprised because we noticed it was either a really trendy but not that we know who we not fully 20s, as you said before. And I realized that all the women around me were confronted with the same exact issues where they wanted more natural lipstick that they didn't want which brand choosing which ones I should choose or which retail they should go to to find this kind of product and use using use of product is they were not to choose this kind of the look and feel of the products were not that attractive. So there were a lot of issues that I thought at the time we could actually solve. And through my process was very simple. I just thought about the women and I asked women what they wanted. So I did a lot like a lot of one to one interviews to actually understand what works for them, do the best they could. And actually, I opened very early an Instagram page, asking women to actually help me to to create the perfect lipstick in that room. So perfect lipstick. That would mean, of course, to get close to perpetrate a great old, long lasting Caros, but also natural ingredients. And again, actually, so the Vegan aspect was quite important for only a part of them. But I thought that was important because actually even this minority of women would be we could address them with this kind of product. Actually, I made a promise to actually do the best activity. So I said I should be faithful to this premise. So I went to Vegan. I was not so clear about what was it on at the time. And actually, on a personal level, I have transitioned a lot from that. So it's an interesting travel. 

 

[00:16:24] Yeah. It's a dialog. It's a philosophy that kind of starts to permeate all areas of life, even for me. 

 

[00:16:31] Ten years. And I'm wondering when you designed it. 

 

[00:16:34] I love this idea of collecting intel and doing this market research with the French Parisian woman. When you designed your your lipstick and nail lock your or was your target audience solely the French woman or feme identified anyone who wants to wear lipstick and nail Lacau? Or did you think eventually you might try and expand it to other European countries or even globally? 

 

[00:17:00] Yeah, it's it's a really good question. But for sure, I thought about it internationally because I think that's what we stand for actually can equal many women around the world. I would be there. I would try to be in the UK, in the US and Canada and Asia. Actually, I would I would be there with production because I, I feel what we stand for could help many women transition to a greener. It's called, again, lifestyle. And it's not a question of the. Ranch. Hate to here's a view like that. 

 

[00:17:34] I've Francis, always used as the icon. So I don't think it hurts to be, you know, to launch from there. From the beauty industry and cosmetics line, I do like the push, the impetus for your story, this inspiration of your daughter. 

 

[00:17:47] It points towards I want all women to be healthy, but most importantly, I want to bring up my daughter's generation shore in a different light than your mind or my mother's or my grandmothers. And so I think getting this new generation very aware of the ingredients and what they're putting on themselves is key. And companies like yours that do that are paramount for the next generation and their generation after that. 

 

[00:18:13] I'm wondering, do you how is we talked off the record. 

 

[00:18:18] I told you I was going to ask you about this, but the relationship that I can kind of if I can speak for my country, which I'm sure most would prefer I not, but the relationship between the Americas, American woman and cosmetic buyer and consumer and that two products that are considered Vegan. And I said Vegan originally, but 100 percent organic and eco sustainable and things of that nature is this idea of luks. You know, there are a lot of environmentally conscious people, but a lot of people see that and they think that not only is it environmentally friendly, they immediately assume it's going to be better for their body. Therefore, they're prepared to pay more. And also, it feels more expensive. They expect more out of the product of the packaging, even if you will, those types of things that the packaging, the eco sustainable. There's all of these attachments, these relationships that go along with something that's Vegan and 100 percent organic. And I'm wondering what the Parisian conversation is, if you would be so bold as to do the same for your country. Is the reception of Vegan and 100 percent organic products cosmetics in France received on the same level? Or can you kind of speak to how the French citizen might view that and what the relationship is? 

 

[00:19:34] So I think it's organic. I think it's already widespread in France. You have historical brands that were already there for a long time. 

 

[00:19:43] I think on the organic part, I think it's already been widespread because you have a lot of historical brands or with younger market and it's nothing personal, actually. 

 

[00:19:52] You do have a lot of organic stores already. Glenzer so organic, I think was not that exceptional. 

 

[00:20:00] Vegan is a different story because again, no state has a recent history in France. 

 

[00:20:04] Four years ago it was only one percent of the population itself begins with very small. And last year, two or three persons that you see that. And there was one person that saw that again and took us 10 percent saying that there would be interesting Vegan products. So you see, it's recent, but it's doing very fast. And once you in that direction, I think there is no way back. 

 

[00:20:25] I see myself I have done some big steps on that. And for sure, I want to go back. So. 

 

[00:20:33] I think that you can get into the subject for various reasons. It can be. 

 

[00:20:38] I don't know, medical because you're lactose intolerant or because you're into more respectful animal or because of the environmental impacts. Many, many reasons that for sure, it is more about being an educated and aware consumers about the impacts. Is showing part of that. It's. 

 

[00:20:57] If we talk about beauty products, you have Vegan products at every place, so it can be a luxury, but it's also a question of, I think education values ethics on the social ladder on the planet. 

 

[00:21:09] I agree. And as the need goes up, you know, the price will come down. It's the same thing with shopping and food industry once these ingredients become available. 

 

[00:21:18] And as free flowing as eggs and milk, then the prices come down. I'm wondering with the different items that you have. So when you launched how many you have lipsticks and nail Lacau a lacquer and how many of each did you launch with? Did you immediately grow? How many of each do you now have? Can you kind of speak to the product line? 

 

[00:21:43] Yes. So we started with a range of twelve shades of metallic lipsticks, so metallic six. And the formula is one other person to begin. Of course, it's up to one person. Not sure because when y one of two went under. I think it's because sometimes on some pigments we don't have alternatives either. Natural. 

 

[00:22:06] See you started off with 12 lipsticks and did you have no lacquer at the same time or did that come later? 

 

[00:22:13] Sorry. Yes. So we started using twelve sheets of metal. Then we launched the. Then they let go 20 second step because actually, you know, we ask the community, especially on Instagram, for every big step section and we ask the community what should be the next step. So then we speak and they say for sure it's like yours because it's full of controversial ingredients and so on. 

 

[00:22:36] And we you can do much better. So actually, we took a big step into a new plan based ingredients that are super interesting, actually. You know, like those we have great colors to pound on, super shine and the super political to to use and apply. So people actually listen with no difference. You want no licorice and steel. It is up to 83 percent of natural ingredients. 

 

[00:23:08] Yeah. And that seems like a tricky one. The nail polish industry in the United States is by far exceeded all of their cosmetics products over the past five years. 

 

[00:23:18] It went from a ridiculously mediocre climate to the next booming, you know, hundreds of trillions of dollars a year. And I know that with that, there are very few people actually considering the ingredients. And it's one of the few things that I think people think that the nail is not necessarily placing it on the body. There's been a lot of talk, too, that the problems with that and people viewing that and I've spoken to a Vegan nail polish industry maker here in the United States, in Nevada, and she said the difficulty for her in developing it, she was actually developing formulas, which was getting these long lasting long stays, the styles and the the traditional industry had been mixing in. So I know that it's it's you know, it's a booming industry. But to get a really good Vegan, 100 percent natural one would be a UNICOR. How do you feel about your product with the nail liquor? 

 

[00:24:16] Do you feel like it says it's as good as its counterparts that are not Vegan and 100 percent organic? 

 

[00:24:23] I think I think it's the same for lipstick and the same for nailer girls. What surprised our consumers that are used to maybe luxury brands or conventional brands, for instance? Is that actually they find the same service. It's the same thing. Intense clothes and along the whole colors and and shining into your exemplars. And they lacquers. It is not what they expected from natural makeup, to be honest, is the sort that they would have to compromise on quality. And what is great is that actually a love? It's. And that's why you actually know we have many products on ice and complexion and so on who can make a lot of good stuff with natural ingredients and from base ingredients in a Vegan way. And actually bringing exactly the same service that they are used to with their curan range. 

 

[00:25:13] So what's next? What do you think you've gone into? You reached out to your people. They asked for a nail lacquer. What's next? Will you do anything else? Will you stay within just those two product zones or do you think you'll keep expanding? 

 

[00:25:27] For sure. We will keep extending. I'm sure. I'm sure of that. So actually, we are making Brand. So we want to go to our two eyes and skin for sure, because we want to offer a community a very easy, attractive solution to transition to a new lifestyle in the U.S. So I feel this is our mission, and especially in this period of time before what we are going through is a. Nineteen, I feel and I hope people will feel even more connected to the planet to live in general, and that daily products that help make the world a better place with five. And and I feel that actually we were kind of put it all, take us, put it have something to do with that. Some contribute to that for our consumers. 

 

[00:26:13] Absolutely. Well, what do you know about your packaging? Is there anything particularly special that you addressed with the packaging or the vessels that the products are delivered in? 

 

[00:26:25] Yes, of course, actually. We wanted to make something bluebirds, actually the point since a cat unbox of the products. There are. Low carbon Accattone coming from sustainable forests. So the idea is really to have no particular varnishes metallic elements that would actually reduce the risk that we cyclicity. So the idea is to have a cut on drugs that you can really easily recycle. For instance, of plastic reuse is recyclable as well. We use aluminum caps, which is purely recyclable as well, glass. But also the idea is really to be insides. What you watch in Europe, you have a natural LaBella's that actually it did some kind of a playbook on packaging. So we tried to really follow all the rules to make sure I think, should you make the best choices. Also on the on every element of the packaging. 

 

[00:27:27] Yeah, that's fantastic. And I'm wondering about the name. Oh, yes. How did all come up? I love it. I think it's fantastic. But where did it come from? 

 

[00:27:39] Oh, it's it's it's a long story, actually, because as I said, actually, I was meeting women a lot when I was starting to to understand their needs and to design the perfect lipstick. And one of them actually told me, I feel that women on that note, who you listen to by custardy brands. That's why formulas are nonsense as well. So because actually, if you ask a woman what she wants to, you know, a product, she would probably tell you a natural natural ingredient for sure. So actually, tell me what you're doing with this product and a strong feminist dimension that actually I totally agree with that. And we are talking about feminism and cosmetics and this foundation. Tony, what is a paradox is that being a feminist is feeding at the same time very strong. They will prove a fool. And at the same time, Zuby threatens. And I said, oh, okay, okay. So just like Tiger actually, you just you Bucho a fool. And then your species. And she told me exactly. We are all tigers. And that's how the name was Monceau became. We are all tigers. I'll tell you also today, actually, we are proud, proud member of international organization, one positive for the planet. And we give back one percent of total sales for wild tiger preservation in Asia. But it's a very complete program. Protects tigers, but also the eco system, which is very certain this over years. Do you see that? We wanted to show also our respect to the living in every way. So not only the tiger as a as an icon, as a symbol, but also in a very concrete way. And when we see it all, Tiger, which is nice, that's for women, it's not about seduction. Like in many make a brand, actual Tiger Woods is a celebration of strong women. We celebrate their sweat trends. COAG fashion each make a career as a nickname, which is like you hit it big. Call me Queen Himuro. So it's a men's for something you say to feel good and strong for the day. So really want to inspire women in the different ways unconventional make it. And not just about superficiality, but something that comes very deep inside. 

 

[00:29:44] Yeah, I really appreciate the and the dialog and the rhetoric that you're having with your your friends and colleagues and clients about feminism and kind of divorcing this concept between cosmetics and the the male gaze or show this idea of seduction and and things like that, and it reaching more into the community in which it lays upon, you know, which is women are female identified or men that are looking to engage in this, returning the use back to the user and the power and the dynamic between the relationship of the product and the user back to them is paramount. I think when you're looking at makeup that is moving forward into our daughter's generation, you know, shortening that the association and the utility of it back to them is really, really powerful. And I appreciate that. I'm curious. Well, first of all, before I forget, because I do tend to forget the logistics when someone is shopping for your product. Do you have a brick and mortar store? Do you have an online presence? Do you have third party retailers that sell your products? Where can people look for it? 

 

[00:30:49] So actually, we have. When you shop, which is the end, that old iPhone tigers' dot com, which is in French and English and which is our first or today, and we deliver what today. And we are also sold by partners in 10 countries in Europe in about 300 doors. 

 

[00:31:08] It's a mix of online offline concept stores. The Fumo use department store pharmacies, beauty spa. 

 

[00:31:15] What is important to me is that we share the same interests for natural beauty that a natural beauty customer actually can go there and shop. So the white product not only ours, but interesting brands as well. So yes, we are we are quite available, but today, mostly in Europe. Do you see internationally. Sure. From. We shop, we we shop, we ship everywhere. Monophone. 

 

[00:31:39] So everyone jump on. Everyone listening. I want to wrap everything up with him. The most recent climate. I don't like to avoid it. And I'm in if you haven't had a significant dialog with yourself or the company. 

 

[00:31:51] That's all right, too. However, I'm wondering what the conversation that you have between your customers or if you've tried to kind of address the covered 19 pandemic and and how you have such a very specific product that has a relationship with the environment and things of that nature that have an inherent dialog with things like pandemic and things that come about from disturbing natural ecosystems and things of that nature. Have you had any kind of marketing or overt conversation or any personal dialog with yourself about how it might move all tigers forward or change your dialog and how you market with your customers? 

 

[00:32:32] Yes, because actually it's a lock down. I actually came quite suddenly and being in touch on a constant basis with our community was, for me, actually a way to keep a positive mood and feeling and seeing seeing a useful to people. So, for instance, all tigers distributed. We are we are today distributed in some pharmacies with a strong natural offer in France. And those pharmacies, we are at the forefront of Kivett 19. So we produce 10 cents. I'd good just to be supplied for free to house workers. And there we are. So for me, pharmacies are part of our community. People love us in another way. Actually, people love Zulay hands of our packaging because it's a lovely drawing with our white Tiger Woods and the colored jungle. So we edited the clothing version that actually you can control yourself for grownups or kids and you could do a need for download for free and print on their website. I also organized a livestock's on Integrate Instagram with French entrepreneurs in beauty and fashion, and we explored the Tiger's view. It's a mix of passion, energy, resilience. You need to build projects. And that was really inspiring acting for me, of course, but also for all the people. Election year following their life left. 

 

[00:33:51] And we made a lot of contests with other ethical brands on Instagram to have them discovered by the community and show them that it's not only about makeup, but it's only about fashion and skincare and other ways that those brands are amazing and nobody knows them and they should actually be no everywhere. So in two different ways. Some are more serious. So some were more entertaining. 

 

[00:34:15] But we were very active to our community and we wanted to support everywhere. Our shop was closed a little bit because at the beginning of logistician had to deal with more, I would say necessary products and makeup, but then we could be open. And since we opened, actually we saw very strong dynamic. So I assume it's the same for a lot of retailers. But I feel people actually will actually need in this kind of period this feel that the brands they believe in and the trust actually helps them go through this kind of period. 

 

[00:34:50] Absolutely. And I appreciate that dialog. It sounds like you've had so much movement on so many different fronts. 

 

[00:34:55] A lot of people feel and paralyzed, you know, with how to address it, with how to look at their industries, their communities, how to to incorporate that dialog into what they're doing. And it sounds like you've done it so gracefully. I'm curious, from a personal standpoint, do you identify yourself as Vegan? 

 

[00:35:15] Oh, yes, actually, yes, you're right. I didn't mention that before. But that's an important question, actually. When I started untangles, I did the new, as I said, so much about the Vegan. So it was quite a discovery for me. And it was led to like the base that I was at the time that they were big meat eaters. So to be honest, I was not Vegan at all. And I did know so much about it. So I got interested. I said quite positive about Vegan. I get a lot about it. But even if you know that it is more ethically and I'm the one that is friendly, I think it is not and actually began is not about a question of motivation. It cannot be only a rational process. It's something that you have to feel deep inside. So you have to feel deep inside that it's it's fair that it is right, though, to be honest. It came step by step. So I stopped eating lambs and then Couzens and also just step by step process. And probably I will discover new elements. But each step was a small evolution on the decimal level. And to be honest, I see that the only and pleasing thing about it is that everybody around you have something to say about it. And in fact, they use less because they all want to give you advice and then say. Stupid to go there. But so best the New Orleans intimates, it's actually a rational discussion. Can really make you change your mind. So anyway, at some point, no, I can really. Yes. I don't if I do the big community. 

 

[00:36:48] Yeah. And it's an interesting time. 

 

[00:36:50] You know, I think the one thing that unifies us from Vegan all across the world is that exact social dynamic of the ostracization. I've never angered anyone more that I didn't know. And then by telling them that I was Vegan, you know, a waiter, too. It's the most amazing statement in the world. And to bear that all the time is can be exhausting. However, what I will say and I tell my children all of the time, which is in your lifetime. What is happening not just with the tragic pandemic and things like that, it will come to fruition as being at least a very logical and sustainable lifestyle. And that questioning and discrimination ought to subside like before your very eyes. And how I lived will not necessarily hopefully be how you lived. So that will be interesting, to say the very least. I'm curious. 

 

[00:37:43] That's what I didn't say that. It's important to say to your listeners know that even if you're not getting food, you should actually go for it. Again, beauty, because it's a question of transparency. You just want to know what is in their product. And you never think that it would be animal based. So for sure, for just that reason. It's interesting. I tried to get them to begin looking for show. 

 

[00:38:04] I concur. 

 

[00:38:05] And I think the majority of of women and men that I know that wear makeup and and do use Vegan and try to use plant based products are not Vegan. They just they really do care about and I like what you said, the transparency, you know, understanding the ingredients, or at very least when you Google them, not being horrified at what they are. Should be something we demand of our products, right? 

 

[00:38:30] Yes, sure. In France, you have many mobile apps that help you to decode, decipher resistant ingredients needs for cosmetics. And the foreshores is the trend of seeing green products. But most of the time, people are very, very amazed about what they find and surprise. But what defines a population even full, put it is for you. So I think it's important that actually people just getting read get away with it. And transparency's for sure the key. It's a key value. 

 

[00:38:59] I do, too. I completely concur. I like to sign off all of my podcasts with kind of reaching into you as a person, as a business owner, as a founder, as a father. We've been in interesting times and and it's been, you know, a lot of people. It sounds like yourself highly included in that have done a lot of self reflection, have looked at their own industries, even if they were beneficial in the past, even if they prospered during the pandemic and had created a new dialog with themselves about what it means now. You know, to be kind of surfing out this pandemic and even looking forward to hopefully the cessation. Do you have, like a top piece of advice or two pieces of advice that you give yourself or your community or your daughter regularly that you've kind of honed in to the tincture or the next year the nectar of of what is good and what to drive your life by? 

 

[00:39:55] What to sail your ship by? 

 

[00:39:58] Well, I I don't know if it will be your words of wisdom, but actually I, I always say be aware and do good. I mean, by that that's I think you should know what you are doing. Know what you're eating. Know what you're actually puts on your lips, on your skin. Know the consequences of what you know, Che's health. What is he done? May be behind what you purchase and do goods. I mean by that, doing the right choices and trying to do something fair. Something that is why it's something that you feel is why. It's something that is completely aligned with your values and convictions. And I think that is the main point. So that's why I said to my children, I have one daughter and two sons. So to my children. And for Scheu is something that actually gave me also now saying that if you if you get into an entrepreneurial product, it's for creating something new. And this new stuff has to be aware and do goods, do some good in a way. So that's actually something that gets me in every actions. 

 

[00:41:04] I love that. I think that's absolutely perfect. I'm going to quote you on that when I quote his podcast and do good. The more simple them are more profound, as are Buddhist philosophers and lay out zoo have proven. Alexis, we are out of time, but I wanted to say thank you so much for speaking with us today and giving us all the information about your life and your company. 

 

[00:41:27] Thank you very much. 

 

[00:41:28] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we have been speaking with Alexis Robillard. He is the founder of All Tigers'. You can find them online. It's E n dot, all hyphen, tigers', dot com. I encourage everyone to get on and check it out. This story you can look into further is fascinating. And for those of you listening, thank you so much for giving us your time today until we speak again next time. 

 

[00:41:53] Remember to stay safe, be well and always bet on yourself. 

Speaking With Kathleen Kastner of The Humane Society of the United States

Today I sit down with Kathleen Kastner. Kathleen has a Master's Degree in Exercise Physiology and has been vegan since 2002. She works for The Humane Society of the United States with their Forward Food program as a Food & Nutrition Coordinator. She leads plant-based culinary trainings at schools, colleges and hospitals to help institutions get more vegan food on their menus.

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. 

www.kathleenkastner.com; www.forwardfood.org

 

TRANSCRIPTION

[00:00:10] Hi, I'm Patricia. And this is investigating Vegan life with Patricia Kathleen. This series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Our inquiry is an effort to examine the variety of industries and lifestyle tenants in the world of Vegan life. To that end. We will cover topics that have revealed themselves as Kofman and integral when exploring veganism. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. You can find information about myself and my podcast at Patricia Kathleen dot com. Welcome to Investigating Vegan Life. Now let's start the conversation. 

 

[00:01:13] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia. And today I am excited to be sitting down with Kathleen Kassner. 

 

[00:01:20] She is an entrepreneur, business owner, author and Vegan cooking show host. Welcome, Kathleen. 

 

[00:01:27] Thank you so much for having me, Patricia. 

 

[00:01:29] Absolutely. I am so excited. 

 

[00:01:31] You have such an amazing history and dynamic professional life. And I want to get into all of that. I'm going to read for everyone listening. I'm going to read a brief bio on Kathleen. But before I do that, a quick roadmap. She can follow today's podcast on its trajectory. We're gonna get into Kathleen's background. Mainly her. Her Vegan story and how she'd kind of enumerate where she came to be at this point, her life. And then we'll turn to unpacking her professional past and the dialog that that has between what she was doing with that and the Vegan world. And then we'll turn to the ethos of her current work with the Humane Society and the food forward program. And then we'll turn our attention towards the end of the podcast towards future goals, both professionally and personally, as well as any advice Kathleen might have for those looking to get involved in any of the projects that she's had or maybe emulate some of her career success. A quick bio on Kathleen before I start peppering her with questions. Kathleen Kessner has a master's degree in exercise physiology and has been a vegan since 2002. She works for the Humane Society of the United States with their food forward program. Sorry, the forward food program as a food nutrition coordinator. She leads plant based culinary trainings at schools, colleges and hospitals to help institutions get more Vegan food on their menus. Her mission is to educate people on the health benefits of whole food plant based diet. While saving animals and helping the planet. Kathleen was a yoga studio owner in Kansas City for 16 years and teaches Ashtanga yoga retreats internationally. She's the author of Yoga's Path to Weight Loss and hosts a vegan cooking show on YouTube so you can find out a little bit more. She's got a couple of Web sites. W w w dot. Kathleen Kassner, dot com. That's K a t h. L. e E n. K. A. S. T n e. R dot com. And w w. W dot food forward dot. org, as we discussed, that you might want to hit that Web site. So, Kathleen, before I get into everything that you are currently doing with food forward in Humane Society, I'm hoping you can dress like a roadmap of what you feel like, your personal story or background and history, education, all that stuff has been with your Vegan life. Great. 

 

[00:03:49] Thank you so much. I was born and raised in Kansas, which I like to joke that it's not exactly the Vegan capital of America. I was really fortunate that I from Kansas, when I got out of college, I moved to San Diego and got a job with Sharpes Hospital. And one of my first clients there was Dr. Deepak Chopra. So when I was young, naive girl, this would have been in 1993. And I get to meet Dr. Chopra at my job. And I didn't know who he was at the time, but I became became his personal trainer and got introduced to his work and consciousness and got introduced to my first yoga class, which literally changed every single aspect of my life for the better. So I'm really grateful that for that divine synchronicity, I had to be at that job at five a.m. in the morning right after college, and that I would get to meet Depok. So I definitely looking back, you know, twenty five years later realized it was definitely meant to be. So I got introduced to yoga and through the years I changed everything. My diet was the first thing to change. I was already vegetarian. I think, unfortunately, I might have been eating like a fish couple times a year and I had to put my cat to sleep. I had a two year old child with Cat and I chose to hold her while they did it. And it really like woke me up. I was like who I am. I don't ever need to eat any living being a you know, I really got it. And I felt like that was a gift she gave to me. And so I became vegetarian, started practicing yoga daily, got to open my first yoga studio in nineteen ninety nine in Kansas City. And every year I did yoga. Something dropped that that wasn't serving my highest good. You know, I eventually dropped, I dropped alcohol, I dropped caffeine, which I thought I would never live to say and my whole life. But but I was still having some health problems. I was having a lot of allergies, asthma and acne. And it was from the dairy. But I had no idea. I went to a conference. Marianne Williamson, host of this conference and I went to from Kansas City to Michigan. She was the minister of a church and hosted this big peace conference. And one of her speakers was Congress. And Dennis Kucinich from Ohio. And he stood up on that stage saying how he had had these undiagnosed health problems and no one could figure out what was wrong with them. And he read Diet for a New America by John Robbins. And John Robbins was the heir to Baskin Robbins and chose to not take over the family business because he saw his uncle died early in his early 50s of a heart attack. His father got diabetes and he realized that dairy was killing his family members. So he did not take over the business, which was a huge falling out and became this amazing plant based educator. So he wrote this book, Diet for a New America. And Dennis Kucinich had read it and told the whole audience how he changed a plant based diet. And those diagnosed health problems magically went away. So I was sitting in the audience going, well, my gosh, I never even consider, you know, I wasn't even eating a lot of dairy and eggs. I was actually more of an attack and dressing than a ranch dressing kind of person. My whole life, I had been like that. But the little dairy that I would have was really wreaking havoc on my health. So I remember sitting in the audience thinking, well, I'm already vegetarian, you know, and I don't even know if he said the word Vegan. But I went back to Kansas City where I didn't know any vegans and I just took him out of my diet. And it was like a miracle. My skin cleared up practically in the first week. I got off the inhaler and got off the Flonase and my whole my health changed. So that's my Vegan story. And then when I did learn the ethics of what was going on in the dairy industry and the egg industry and that we were impregnating cows and taking away their babies and grinding up male chicks and grinders. And I was like, there is no way I'm going to have anything to do with these systems that are being cruel to animals. So I was very easy for me. I it's been 18 years and I just I never looked back. It was just like a switch went on and it was very easy. I and my husband I met twelve years ago, it was miraculously Vegan. 

 

[00:08:41] We had a Vegan wedding to our Kansas and Wisconsin family members in Los Angeles. And so it's just been a huge part of my life. I'm really blessed. 

 

[00:08:50] I have a partner be supportive and he's a great cook. And our yoga studio, Kansas City, we promoted veganism as much as possible. 

 

[00:09:00] Yeah. I wonder with your said, given this prolific history that you have with a yoga studio, you and I spoke just briefly off the record before we started the podcast about how yoga studios are kind of tricky. 

 

[00:09:12] And when I run into them, I interview a lot of small business owners and even all the way up to large business titans. And sometimes the industry can confuse one to thinking that it's not a business type industry. We talked about how yoga studios are one of those areas where I find that people assume, like, you know, Yogi's own them and they do a lot of yoga. But it is indeed a business unto itself. And I was wondering, and the connection between as a business owner and a yogi yourself, there is an inherent connection. I find a lot of yoga yogis or people who do yoga are not a shock to find someone being Vegan. But there's also an assumption that every yogi is Vegan or that they understand that lifestyle. And I'm wondering throughout, because you had such a prolific career owning different yoga studios. I'm wondering if you ever had an opportunity to engage in collaboration's or education regarding veganism or did you keep those things very separate? You were a vegan. You were also a yoga studio owner. Did they ever collaborate? 

 

[00:10:10] Yes, I pretty much shouted it from the mountaintop. Once I once I knew, knew better for myself that how I could help, you know, not only my health, but the animals and the environment. Yes. I became very outspoken and I did get some grief and I probably still do, but I'm going to keep speaking out. I got these Vegan startup kits from PETA. They will give them to you for free. They will ship them to your yoga studio for free. They have a benefactor who pays for them. And I set them right up there at the front desk with all the other literature schedules. Our hope when we host a teacher trainings, I would ask our students to go Vegan. Of course, they had free will whether they did or didn't. But we have had people come back later through the years who have stayed Vegan and we would host Vegan potlucks and movie screenings and just tried to really get them involved. Of course, most of them were not Vegan but. If you share delicious Vegan food and then people can realize like, hey, you don't have to be deprived. This is amazing. So we did the letter home and we did them at the studio. And I always think that sharing delicious food is a great people, great way to help educate people on the benefits of veganism. 

 

[00:11:32] Yeah, it's it's clever, too. I hadn't I hadn't put this together. I mean, there are religions out there that put service and food in a way to help convert and share a peaceful message. 

 

[00:11:43] And so it stands to reason that a dietary and lifestyle movement could easily do the same. I think that's a really good point. And always your education, right? Just be sharing that education. 

 

[00:11:57] So I'm wondering, I want to turn now the efforts towards I'm looking at the ethos of the Humane Society and the food forward program. 

 

[00:12:04] Can you start by painting a picture of what the kid when I think of the Humane Society. I tend to think of animals and things of that nature. And so I want to look at can you explain what aspect of the Humane Society, what chapter, that type of thing that you're in. And then also draw us out like an outline of what the food forward program is? 

 

[00:12:27] Sure, sure. So I work for the Humane Society of the United States and I just want to clarify its forward food stuff. That's OK. It's forward food, dawg. And it was started four years ago and by Chef Wanda. And it is under meat reduction. So this is farm animal protection and meat reduction. These campaigns, it's under. So we're trying to save farm animals. In a nutshell, by teaching people how to make delicious plant based foods without using them. And we're not asking people to go vegan, but we're just asking to get more plant based options on institution menus for those who care to have them, especially when somebody is in the hospital. If they went in for heart disease, you know, the last thing we want to do is give them bacon and eggs in the morning after they wake up from their heart surgery. And I worked in choreography when I was younger. So it's very important to educate them right away, you know? And of course, people have free will. But if we can at least start introducing healthier foods. So at the Humane Society, we do these plant based culinary trainings to K through twelve food service workers, dieticians, chefs, colleges and hospitals. So it's a lot of fun. So we go in and we work with the staff. Sometimes it's around 20 people. And I give a PowerPoint on why we're there for health, animals, the environment, and then we get to go into the kitchen. And it depends on the institution. But sometimes I get to bring one of our Vegan chefs from Seattle and work with their culinary staff to make anywhere from 15 to 20 plant based recipes. So we break them up into teams of two and they get recipes and they make them within a couple hours. And then when it's done, we set up a big buffet table and the whole staff gets to taste all the different dishes. They present their dishes. They they are allowed to make tweaks if they want to make the recipe their own. It just can have animal products, but extra spice here and there. So we really try to get the staff excited about plant based foods so that they'll be more interested in helping to make them. So then the food service director and the chefs get to decide which recipes they'd like to put on their menus. And then I follow up with them within the next few months to see what changes they've made in meat reduction. 

 

[00:15:03] That's exciting. I think it's such a great way to come at it. 

 

[00:15:06] You know, it's it's this kind of, again, this educational model of showing and educating as as you kind of set up some of the dangers of of having meat so prolifically represented in the American diet, even on the social level. I'm wondering, with schools, have you been able when you get into colleges, have you. Has the program looked into getting into elementary schools? And if you have done that. Is that that's a system that I think even a lot of people. I have children that go to school and I'm not sure if it's state mandated or federally mandated. You know how that school lunch system works because my children don't partake in it. But I'm wondering how much flexibility there is to have organizations such as Forward Food go in and pitch them and speak to them. Is it state run? Are you guys able to penetrate some of the areas near what you're doing or is it mainly on the college level? 

 

[00:16:00] No, we definitely do K through 12th. It's a lot of fun. I've gotten to do I really have the position for eight months. But I've gotten to do some case patrols and they do make changes. They like are are Vegan sloppy Joes that are made with lentils and veggie crumbles and barbecue sauce. Yes, we definitely we have all the nutritional requirements that are necessary to meet their requirements. And then so our meat alternative is usually beans or lentils in that respect. So as long as it meets the requirements nutritional wise for the meat requirement and the protein requirement, then it it's good to go and they can adopt them. 

 

[00:16:41] That's fantastic. I think it's so exciting to have those. Because as you introduce the younger generation to it, I think that's where you truly get, you know, early education and experience with that education coming up. 

 

[00:16:53] And I think programs like that need to start taking hold. I mean, the food paradigm that they developed the nutritional guidelines from is suspect, you know, anyway, it hasn't really been overturned and people who have just kind of flipped it on its head. But I do think that looking into systems like this, one of the biggest problems people think is that developing a solution would be very, very difficult. Do you have specific products that are kind of your go to you mentioned the lentils were sloppy Joes for schools and things like that. Do you does your program have these kind of staples, if you will, of supplements that you bring in quite frequently to kind of pitch people on? 

 

[00:17:33] We actually give them a grocery list with all the ingredients for all the different recipes. So there's 20 recipes. The chef helps. And I helped design this list. So they go shopping. And sometimes I do need a little help, you know, like where do I get nutritional yeast or if they need a certain brand of veggie crumbles or chicken nuggets like we refer them out to Hungry Planet or Morningstar or we connect them with vendors. We don't have our own vendors, you know, that we that we use. Exactly. And we give them options so they can source it from any plant based company they like. Or sometimes I just try to give them a little guidance on where to go if they don't know how to get Vegan mandates. 

 

[00:18:13] Right. Yeah. It's great because it removes you guys from affiliation and getting caught up with it being more corporate based, which I think there has been kind of a movement towards. There's been. And now I'd like to kind of crawl into that. So there's plant based and there's Vegan. 

 

[00:18:30] And I've been interviewing a lot of people involved in the Vegan world. 

 

[00:18:35] So not just the food world that you're functioning in, but also the community, artistic endeavors, fashion designers, cosmetic creators. And this idea has kind of arisen and a lot of people feel like it's starting. As it always is starting to get become an advertising debate. But you have plant based and then you have Vegan. And I'm wondering, everyone defines these a little bit differently. So I'm hoping that just to get an idea from you and your perspective, how would you define something that is plant based and how would you define something? Is Vegan? Is there a difference? What is the difference for you in your work? 

 

[00:19:12] For me, because Vegan was around when I became Vegan, Vegan was the term, so I associate with the word Vegan. I also for me. It means that I also care about the animals and the ethics and the spirituality and and Mother Earth first day. And I feel like when this whole food plant based movement came out, which is great, because that means usually very little or no oil or sugar or salt. Usually for people who are having serious health problems, you know, diabetes, heart disease, weight loss or high blood pressure, high cholesterol. So this whole food plant based diet came out, which is the healthiest way to eat because there is a lot of junk food, potato chips, Oreos and soda. So it is important to eat a Whole Foods plant based diet and then you have a little fun on the weekends if you get some sweet potato fries out or something like that. But for me, I identify with the word Vegan because I am such an animal advocate and sometimes plant based people are not as interested in the animals in the environment. They're very, very into health, which is wonderful. And we need all angles to support the movement. But for me, that is the big difference, that when you're Vegan, you're really you're in it for all all reasons. And when you're just plant base, you're really mainly into it for your health. Yeah. Which is great. And sometimes I've seen that the whole food plant based people become animal advocates and environmental activists, you know, becomes more to them. And I'm the same way. I mean, when I'm in Vegan. I had no idea what was one. I was the cow. Dairy cows in the egg industry. So I started for my health, too. 

 

[00:21:01] Yeah, I think you're right. I've seen a lot of gateway moments like that, you know, a gateway drug. And there's a lot of different reasons, you know. I've interviewed people that came at being coming. They're unlike I call them the unlikely vegans because they don't have a history or an environment that would treat veganism. But they suffered a heart attack at thirty five, in fact. Forget it. And there's just there's a lot of different ways some people have watched game changers and decided, I can't I can't be a part of this. There's been a lot of avenues now with the pandemic. I've spoken to a bunch of people recently that are investigating the lifestyle heavily because it's you know, health has become at the forefront of everyone's mind. And the plant based versus Vegan, I think there's been a lot of pushback that I've heard about, particularly in the food industries, because plant based is being attached by marketing agendas that also have animal products in them. And so when vegans identify with being plant based, they're consuming or buying things and discovering that they're not Vegan. It's kind of like being fortified with vitamin D or other folic acid. You know, when they when health people got a hold of that in the 80s and 90s, everything was suddenly fortified and terrifying. 

 

[00:22:16] Well, yes, you're right. True. There are plant based, also plant based products. And they'll have a little egg or casing. Yeah. If you read the ingredients. So you do. If you're if you're serious about destroying the ingredients. 

 

[00:22:28] Absolutely. And so I want to kind of turn towards. I'm not sure how much rhetoric you have had on a professional level or personal level. 

 

[00:22:38] I did touch briefly on, you know, the interest and the return to thinking about health as as a as a civilization is kind of peaking for people. And I'm wondering if you've thought if there's been enough time for you to kind of marinate in it and think about how the Humane Society or forward food would sculpt. Do you think that some of your rhetoric will start changing to be more inclusive of talking about the pandemic as as restrictions rise? Of course. And you return back to I know you have this kind of in-person person format to a lot of what you do. And as that returns, do you think that some of the dialog will change to kind of include what we have been experiencing as a society? 

 

[00:23:22] Definitely. I I was talking with my manager. We're hoping to be all that. We do this our point and at least, you know, add in a slide or two about what's happened. We really try to focus on health, the health and the environment. And so but so in both of those things are relative to the pandemic. And the thing is that all slaughterhouses are, ah, you know, breeding grounds for disease. I mean, there's what we've already had, avian flu, bird flu, swine flu. There's a lot of there's mad cow disease that is very covered up in the United States. Salmonella, E. coli, Ebola Scar's. I mean, the list goes on and on about it isn't just happening in other countries is happening in United States. So that raising animals for food is. Breeding ground for disease. So we are going to hopefully we definitely won't be dwelling on it, but we work it. We'll plug it in there a little bit. 

 

[00:24:19] Absolutely. Lisa Slainte current. Right. I'm wondering and I want to really quickly circle back. I neglected to ask you. I'm interested in people who come up with these recipes that you have. You mentioned. A chef in Seattle. If we if we get to. We like to fly someone down. Where do you find your chefs? How do you collect the recipes? Do you ever have competitions that people can kind of submit to or how does that work? 

 

[00:24:41] You know, it's all done internally within Ford Food and Høst US. So we have a staff. Amazing chefs. And they are recipe creators. And they also will collaborate with Sodexho large food management companies and create plant based recipes that are just proprietary just to that institution. So if it's if it's a Sodexho card, then we have these Sodexho recipes. But then anybody can go to forward food or under food service. And there are about 100 plant based recipes for anyone. Just be sure you look at the top of the serving size because we are doing larger institutions. Ten is ten to twelve servings. And you could just cut it in half or less. So we are very creative and they're always updating them to make them even better because that's just really for me. Even before I had this job, which is why I started my YouTube channel, my number one way to help animals is by teaching people how to cook without using them. Because everybody loves good food. Not everybody is passionate about their health or the animals and the environment. I wish they were, but everybody likes good food. So that's what we try to do with flawed food. We just try to make great food. In fact, we encourage like K through 12. They're going to add one of our recipes, research shows to not call it vegetarian or vegan. Do not say this is a vegan sloppy Joe today. You know, to use creative adjectives like, you know, spicy, spicy being chili or, you know, something really more descriptive. Doesn't it just say this is a veggie burger, you know, black beans, sweet potato burger or just something? 

 

[00:26:34] So the kids are like, well, and likewise, I like to tell people they've been substituting your meat with soy for years now, so don't worry about it. This kind of like Terada going down. 

 

[00:26:47] While I don't feel kind of bad for those children who are very conscious and gonda like from birth, who actually are looking for the V word, but because they've probably grown up with it or have educated themselves, that they they understand what it is without being called that. Yeah. You know, it just it just helps if you just use a fun descriptive word like this. Food service director told me they were doing a three bean chili on Fritos, which I know are the most amazing healthy food. But they called it a Frito boat. And the kids love the Frito boats. No, I didn't say anything about it being meatless. Exactly. Oh. 

 

[00:27:34] So likewise, you see, you bring your chefs in internally. They're brought in by the Humane Society. What if someone had a school system or something that they wanted you to pitch to? Could they reach out to you or your department? And have you got me? 

 

[00:27:48] I cover the Southwest region, but we have coordinators throughout the country. So it's not an I. I do California, Arizona, Utah, Mexico, Colorado, Arizona. So and then we have others of coordinators around the country. So, yes, please reach out to me and I'll connect you with the right people. 

 

[00:28:08] That's exciting. Well, I want to climb in to the before we let you go. I want to climb in to your YouTube cooking channel and all of that. 

 

[00:28:18] How how long have you been doing it? How long are the episodes? Where can people find your channel on YouTube? 

 

[00:28:25] It's actually under my name, Capling Kassner. They call it Vegan vitality, but you can find it under Kathleen Kassner. So when I I left Kansas City five years ago, I saw my yoga studio, which was a big deal because I've had it for 16 years and I really want to dove into wellness and Vegan education. So the ironic thing is how I was not a very good cook. 

 

[00:28:50] My husband is the better cook. 

 

[00:28:53] I'm not sure we started like on Facebook Live and I just kept telling him, like, I just like we have the greatest chefs to help people if we show them what we eat. You know, we're I'm from Kansas again and he's from Wisconsin. I'm like, we think everyone knows what we eat as vegans, but they probably really don't know. So let's show some of this awesome what we make. So he started filming me and he's in a few of them, too. Because, again, he's actually the better cook. But we started going into a kitchen and it's just been a lot of fun and we have since moved. We have a better kitchen now and we have upgraded our equipment. So I feel like we're just kind of finally starting over. But it's been great to share delicious recipes. And I love hearing the feedback. When people start telling me they're making pineapple fried rice weekly for their families and the kids like, you know. So that makes me excited. We we have a long way to go. So I would really appreciate it if anybody subscribed because I really want to reach more and more people in 2020 and share delivered delicious Vegan brands that I do use. That just simple truth organic, which is a Kroger brand and very affordable and easily accessible. So it's just been a lot of fun. 

 

[00:30:06] Yeah, absolutely. Especially with, you know, the friend reached out to me, a colleague, and she called it Kovik cooking. 

 

[00:30:13] But, you know, people swapping recipes and channels and getting into things even for those who aren't and, you know, Vegan or Vegan identify to look at some of your recipes and try them out like that's it's an exciting change. And, you know, people have some time right now to maybe get to it and everyone's cooking at home. So it's a great time. 

 

[00:30:31] We call it warrantee cooking and we have about 90 recipes on there. We literally made every single favorite dish we have. I'm still researching weekly, trying to come up with more. 

 

[00:30:44] No more. Great. Yeah. Absolutely. As we wrap up today, I'm wondering and I know that things have changed because of the current climate with everyone's and the precariousness of where everyone's headed professionally. Things like that. 

 

[00:30:59] And so if you haven't had a recent dialog with yourself perhaps before the Cauvin 19 hit, but can you elaborate a little bit about your future goals, both dealing with the Humane Society and Forward Food, as well as like the cooking channel? Where do you see yourself kind of wanting to head or some of your goals for the next one to three years? 

 

[00:31:21] Okay, that's a great question. With the Humane Society, we really are working towards helping institutions to go 50 percent plant based in the next four years. Nice. Which is already happening, amazingly so, that's my goal with the Humane Society. And to be honest with you, my goal with my cooking channel is I would love I have a love, honest throat out there. I'll make it a big goal. I would love to have a million subscribers and I would love to have simple truth, organic. Be our sponsor. 

 

[00:32:03] Great. Well, there you go. You know, it's it's it's the secret, right? This is a visual verbal vision board. Absolutely. That's a great goal. I love it. A million subscribers and simple truth organic. That's fantastic. Well, we are all out of time today, but I wanted to tell you that I really appreciate everything that you kind of Kathleen. Everything that you've enumerated on. I love the work that you're doing. And I really appreciate all of the information you gave us. So thank you so much for your time. 

 

[00:32:35] Thank you so much for the opportunity to share veganism with your audience. 

 

[00:32:39] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been talking with Kathleen Kesner. You can find her at Kathleen Kassner dot com. 

 

[00:32:46] And you can also find out more about what she's doing at the Humane Society at Forward Food dot org. 

 

[00:32:52] And until we speak again next time. Thank you for giving us your time. And remember to eat clean, eat well and always bet on yourself. Stay safe.

Talking with The Healthy Voyager, aka Carolyn Scott-Hamilton

Today we chat with Carolyn Scott-Hamilton. Carolyn, is the creator and host of The Healthy Voyager web series, site, and overall brand. An award winning healthy, special diet and green living and travel expert, holistic nutritionist, plant based vegan chef, best-selling cookbook author, media spokesperson, sought after speaker, consultant and television personality, Carolyn Scott-Hamilton is a respected figure in the world of healthy lifestyle and travel as well as special diet cooking and nutrition.

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

[00:00:10] Hi, I'm Patricia. And this is investigating Vegan life with Patricia Kathleen. This series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Our inquiry is an effort to examine the variety of industries and lifestyle tenants in the world of Vegan life. To that end. We will cover topics that have revealed themselves as Kofman and integral when exploring veganism. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. You can find information about myself and my podcast at Patricia Kathleen dot com. Welcome to Investigating Vegan Life. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. 

 

[00:01:15] I am your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Carolyn Scott Hamilton. 

 

[00:01:20] She is the founder of the Healthy Voyager. You can find it at Healthy Voyager dot com. Welcome, Carolyn. 

 

[00:01:27] Hello. Thank you so much for having me this morning. 

 

[00:01:30] Absolutely. I'm excited to get into everything that you're doing and for everyone listening. I'll read your bio on Carolyn. But before I do that, I always offer our audience a quick roadmap of where I intend to have some of my inquiry's go throughout the podcast. And today, we'll be looking at a brief history on Carolyn's academic and professional life as it pertains to her Vegan endeavors and plant based endeavors that will include some of her accomplishments, such as her cookbook and some of her other business endeavors, and also her personal history and her rhetoric as it plays out with her Vegan living or plant based lifestyles. Things of that nature. And then we'll also look at other businesses that Carolyn has. She has an entire brand associated with the healthy Voyager. We'll wrap everything up with kind of the ethos of what the embodiment of her brand and her lifestyle is, as well as ways that anyone can contact her and get involved with what she's doing. A quick bio on Carolyn before we get into all of those things. The Healthy Voyager, a.k.a. Carolyn Scott Hamilton is the creator and host of the Healthy Voyager Web series site and overall brand, an award winning healthy special diet and green living and travel expert, holistic nutritionist, plant based vegan chef, bestselling cookbook author, media spokesperson, sought after speaker consultant and television personality Carolyn Scott. Hamilton is a respected figure in the world of healthy lifestyle and travel, as well as special diet, cooking and nutrition. The Healthy Voyager aims to help people live. Well, one veggie at a time. 

 

[00:03:09] So, Carolyn, you've got such a prolific pass in history and right now so many different endeavors that you're working on. 

 

[00:03:16] But I'm hoping before we get started with all of that, you can dress kind of a story or a narrative of your academic past and professional history prior to where you came to right now look like. 

 

[00:03:29] Well, it's it's I always say that when I moved to Los Angeles. Ever since I got here to now, I've lived nine lives. I, I came out here for kind of what most people come out here for, for the industry. And it's it's been a part of my life the entire time. But I've said Wade and gone off path and off tangents so many times. But somehow it all kind of still ties in. So I went to college at the University of Miami for undergrad. I actually was on the medical school track and I wanted to be a pediatric surgeon. And I remember one Christmas break I was talking to a doctor. I was I was actually working at a dentist office and my dentist and I were chatting and he was like, you know, the medical field isn't what it used to be and, you know, all kinds of things. And I never had any doubts about what I wanted to do. But that conversation did kind of bring something up for me that I thought, well, wow, you know what? If this is something that I really, really want to do, it's going to be years before I'm actually done. So I would have had medical school, then residency and then specialty and fellowship. It would have I would have been in school for like 15 years. I thought, well, what if after all of that schooling, I don't like it? Or I thought, well, what if I want to have a family and I'm never gonna have the time to enjoy them because I'll be on call it all started to kind of come up for me. And I thought, well, if I'm having these doubts now, then maybe I should walk away from it. And I was on full scholarship, so I had a couple of years left. And to my mother's chagrin, I said, OK, I'm not going to medical school. And I said, I'm going to I'm going to go to film school. And she was not happy with me, but my father was because he was the creative. And I had actually been since I was five years old, actually, since I was three. I had been dancing and since I was five, I'd been acting. So I'd and I'd been writing my whole life and singing. So I, I kind of went back to my creative roots and I was like, I'm going to do this. And it kind of was no skin off my teeth because I didn't I didn't have to pay. If I had to pay for school to do that, I probably wouldn't have made such a bold choice. But I did because I. I really thought, you know what, I. I've always been creative. I've always wanted to do things in a different way. And when I remember speaking to that dentist that day at work and he did say he's like, you don't really get to do things the way you want to do them anymore. And I thought, wow, if I can't practice medicine the way I want to, then maybe this isn't for me. And it all worked out because once I got to L.A., I came out here. I didn't know anybody. Right after undergrad, I got out here, packed up my Dodge Neon and pulled a tight little U-Haul cross country through through a hurricane. And I got here and my life has been pretty, pretty insane in a in a cool way. I'd say I was working in the industry for a while. I was I was acting and I was singing. And I realized a few years in that it wasn't how I imagined it. I did pretty well growing up in Florida. But the scene out here is quite different. And excuse me, I am I didn't love it anymore because I didn't get to be creative. I didn't like the business side of it. And I didn't like the. How do I say just the kind of the myopic view about things in the business as far as. It wasn't so much based on talent. It really was based on looks and not not so not so much good looks. It just very much type berry type. I'm Latina, but I don't necessarily look Latina to casting directors. So I started to see a pattern and I was like, this is just an uphill battle and I don't even love doing this anymore. And I said, I'm out. And I ended up falling into PR. I was working with a woman and we launched now pretty successful yoga clothing line. And I learned invaluable information and skills from from launching that brand. I learned about ya and and launching a line and and the clothing world and all of that. And I ended up leaving there and going to PR firm. And then I ended up starting my own PR firm. And from that. Yeah. So I thought I was going to do it myself and do it for clients that can't necessarily pay a twenty five hundred to five thousand dollar retainer fee. I want to help the little guy. So I did. So I was doing PR and events. So I did everything from lifestyle PR for clients to weddings, to wrap parties, to fashion shows. And I. That was my life for for quite a while. But before that. Probably within the first few months that I moved to L.A. because of the whole looks and being in the industry, I had read a book called Fit for Life. And it was about food combining because, of course, I got here and I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be really skinny. You know, 22 year old me was thinking kind of a little bit on the shallow side, but it was a book that changed my life. And because it was a fad about food, combining about combining your carbs and your proteins again. Twenty two year old me thought, oh, well, I'd rather eat carbs than protein. And I ended up going vegan plant based pretty much overnight without really knowing much about it. Just that I wanted to. To lose weight or, you know, some ridiculous reason. But it resonated with me so much that I started to really research it. And because I wanted to do it for health reasons and do it correctly. I learned to love it. I ended up getting my masters in holistic nutrition and I started my PGA natural pathic medicine. And I thought, wow, I'm so glad I left medical school because this this makes so much more sense to me. And has at the time, back in 98, there was there was nothing I didn't know any begins. There were there wasn't even a Whole Foods yet. There were, you know, small little markets and everything was very hippie dippy in that space. So I was one of the only people that I knew that was eating that way and living that lifestyle. And I kind of got tired of eating bowls of guacamole and and cucumber sandwiches and salad. I thought there's got to be more to life than the signs of going to culinary school, because I really I always loved cooking, but I wanted to see what else was out there as far as swaps and figuring out how to eat, you know, in this new lifestyle. But I did all of that for my own knowledge, not necessarily to become a chef at a restaurant or open a restaurant or anything like that. I did do some private nutrition counseling for clients, but I. I knew that that wasn't my passion either. So really, I just loved having that knowledge base behind me. So cut to I had my PR firm and I'm doing quite a bit of travel. And because of my dietary restrictions, I was always figuring out ways to manipulate menus. I would I like to say McGyver cook in my hotel room. I always have snacks and I thought, hey, I can't be the only person that's going through this. Not necessarily that there are other beacons out there, but anyone with a dietary restriction, be they diabetic or want to look fat or whatever the case may be. There are a lot of dietary issues out there that keep people from traveling. And I've been traveling since I was a kid. I was born in Colombia. I'm Colombian and I've been all over the world. And I thought, hey, this this could be a resource for people. So I started pitching the idea for a show around two networks back in 2005 for my show, The Healthy Voyager. And it was a little too early in the space they did, but they were way too afraid to take a risk on anything health related. I had a major network say we love the idea, but we don't do healthy. And that's the whole point. We need to have options because at the time the most popular travel shows were either eating bugs in the Amazon we see or eating like a 50 pound burger. And I was like, well, that might be entertaining to watch, but for the consumer and the viewer, this doesn't help them. No one's actively going to travel just to look for these things, you know? So. So I said, you know what? I'm going to launch it on my own because I was a publicist and because I had the film background, I created the show on my own and I launched it on YouTube. And because I couldn't necessarily travel all the time, I I started a little companion blog to do some write ups about places and even local places. And then I started to post my recipes. 

 

[00:12:54] And so what was that original show about? Was it a catchall? Was it just you discussing you interviewing people? You talking about new places to eat? What was the healthy Voyager that first original YouTube series about? 

 

[00:13:09] It was. It was a travel show. So I would travel to places and I would go to Vegan restaurants or find Vegan food at specific restaurants. So that was very, very niche. Now it's I still have the travel show, but it's more adventure based, sustainability based. I do talk about food and some restaurants, but I found that that content is an evergreen because restaurants, clothes, restaurants change. So, you know, some of those old episodes that are still up, it's funny, like none of the restaurants exist. So I thought. And because I started traveling more and getting sponsored more and working with with big brands, I was able to to put together a much more well-rounded show. So I do some really cool things now. It really is more adventure based, culture based. There's still that culinary aspect, but not in the sense of promoting specific Rothera restaurants, because, again, you know, they come and go. So. So, yeah. So I love the show. And then within all this time I had a cooking show, I, I, I watched all kinds of little businesses under the umbrella of the healthy voyageur. But yeah. That the little idea that came from pitching to networks is now my full time job this week. It's 15 years old, at least from the idea with the germ of the idea. When I had it was 2005 and now it's my full time gig and I. I love it. 

 

[00:14:40] Absolutely. So what was kind of your first turning break when you started making you said you started garnering sponsorships and you were developing all these projects. You have a cookbook out. What is the name of your cookbook? It is. 

 

[00:14:54] Is it the Healthy Boyages Global Kitchen? 

 

[00:14:58] There it is. And so when did that come out? 

 

[00:15:02] That came out December of 2011. So next year, I can't believe it'll be 10 years. I'm going to release 10 year anniversary edition and add some more recipes and kind of update it. Yeah. 

 

[00:15:17] Did you have sponsorships prior to that or did they kind of come and go? And do you find, given that you have the PR backing? Are people approaching you? When was that career turn? 

 

[00:15:30] You know, there are a lot of people that have been in industries and they're like at some point people started approaching me. 

 

[00:15:35] Yet that started to happen a little earlier than I had expected. But because I started the brand way before social media even existed, there was no Facebook. There was no Twitter. There was no Instagram. There was nothing. I was kind of screaming into a vacuum. I didn't know who my audience was, but I was building an email list because that was the only way that I could basically chat with my with my audience and fans or anyone that had any questions. So I started a newsletter, and that was my way to keep in contact with people. And then as social media started to grow, I was always an early adopter. So I was able to kind of jump on the bandwagon. Each time a new platform popped up on the ground floor. So but I think I was able. To get ahead of the game, because I was around before that started so early on, because, yes, I was a publicist. I was pitching myself to brands and I was kind of teaching them the new way to market their their product or service before influencers were even a thing because they were using all of their marketing budgets for traditional media. So print media, TV media spots, things like that. And I was saying, hey, for a fraction of that cost, I can create this content for you. I have X amount of eyeballs and viewers and that sort of thing. So I was able to work with brands and kind of teach them a new way of thinking. And then as social media started to pop up, more people started to come to me. And then now their social media agencies that wrangle all the brands and then companies. So it started off early on with me pitching and then people started to find me. And then social media blew up. And and now it's it's me kind of being able to say, oh, I'm not going to work with that brand or this brand. But yeah, it's been a pretty neat evolution, seeing it from its infancy where there was no way to talk to people outside of the traditional pitching. And now it's it's just crazy. 

 

[00:17:48] Well, hindsight's beautiful, too, because you can see that like Winding Road, which at the time is usually just kind of seeming chaotic. 

 

[00:17:55] I think I'm curious with because you've dropped into a little bit about the fact that, you know, you move to L.A. was a very external physical environment that made you health conscious or at least looked towards this fit for Lifebook. But I'm wondering after that and how you would define your Vegan life now, what attributes do you tie into it? And also, what is the differentiation that you make between the terms Vegan and plant based? 

 

[00:18:28] Yeah, well, starting off with that, I say Vegan just because it's easier, I, I like I prefer a plant based because I went plant based. For health purposes, I solely talk about it from a health perspective and a dietary perspective. What I'm consuming, whereas Vegan is the catch all for people who live the lifestyle that have no animal products whatsoever. So how they eat, how they dress, the products they use. And that tends to be people who are more on the animal rights side of veganism. I still identify with that because I. I do love animals. I don't wear animal products. I don't use any cosmetics or beauty products or anything household products that contain any animal products. But that's only because after I realized that it wasn't I wasn't just doing myself a favor eating plant based, that I was helping the environment and helping the animals. That's when I started to realize, oh, I can live this holistic lifestyle that that helps everything, not just me, but I still my number one reason for having done it is for health reasons. So that's why I tend to use plant based, because unfortunately, Vegan tends to have a knee jerk reaction. For most people that is negative. And I, I understand why there. I mean, I find that any extreme lifestyle has there there are loud mouths that kind of ruin it for everybody else, you know. So, you know, be a beat as and be at Crossfade, be whatever it is. Anyone that's evangelical about something tends to kind of leave a bad taste in other people's mouths that are like, oh, that's crazy and cultish, you know? So I get it. I understand the passion behind the hardcore vegans, but I have always led by example. I've never been negative, I've never been preachy. And in fact, I, I have been able to persuade people to become Vegan probably more than most vegans that I can think of, because I've just said, hey, look, I live my life, I travel the world, I. I hang out with people that are not Vegan most of none of my friends. Very few of my friends are actually being. And so I've always been very inclusive. I feel that that's that's why I like the word plant base, because it just sounds so much nicer and approachable, because unfortunately, the word Vegan is a bit of a turnoff, even though now, again, with the hindsight, I would have never imagined how insanely popular it has become. 

 

[00:21:22] Right. Well, and even more so over the past, I thought it was kind of gaining traction. 

 

[00:21:26] And then things like game changers and the certain things have come out that have sent people into the plant pace interest that probably would never have been there throughout X three generations. And what people? Why people come over and how it's defined? I think that for a long time, companies were turning to the term plant base to, like you say, kind of avoid the stigma. However, I've spoken to a couple of Vegan restaurant owners and things like that, particularly overseas, over the past couple of months. And a lot of them are a little disgruntled because people are using the term plant based to include things and items and products, even in stores that are not Vegan. And so they're kind of attaching, you know, plant base has become this new like fortified by the deep fortified. Yeah. And it's it's this concept of saying something healthy without it being healthy, which if you know, a lot of the documentaries and information systems coming out will show you is that that's actually the form of manipulation to the downfall of a product. You know, when you start fortifying something with vitamins, you start actually depleting it of what was originally good for it. And so people saying plant based and kind of taking over that term, there's a lot of fear that it will become molested to the point where it no longer even identifies with being plant based or Vegan. And so I'm wondering, as a cookbook author, do you? You must care a great deal about ingredients and what is going in and and really identifying. But do you think that the term plant based has become manipulated or do you think it's still like a strong avenue for people to trust that it's meaning something? I mean, I think people are identifying something that is more healthy. Fewer ingredients. 

 

[00:23:10] Yeah, I got it. I agree because I remember when everyone started jumping on the natural bandwagon. Everything anything can be labeled natural because there's no regulation. So as long as there's water in the product, they can label it as natural. So it really is misleading for the consumer. And unfortunately. So I actually heard that organic will now be unregulated so people can use that and mislead customers. So I think it is unfortunate that the word plant base, because I do think that it it sounds nicer. I think it is kind of all encompassing. But just because it's plant based doesn't mean it's Vegan. But if it's Vegan, it is always plant based. Right. So I think people just need to be discerning when they're reading labels and what they're getting. But it is unfortunate that people will take something that's good and use it to manipulate the consumer, unfortunately. But absolutely. Yeah. I want to get back. 

 

[00:24:16] Yeah, I do. I do too. 

 

[00:24:17] I like the term and I hope it stays pure. I hope we get some regulatory measures in mind as well, because having something plant based that you turn around and has like yellow number three and it feels deceptive for some reason. 

 

[00:24:29] And I want to get back to something you mentioned about the cookbook you talked about or early on and just kind of starting off the ethos of your career. You talked about really caring about dietary restrictions and, you know, turning to this Vegan way of living and things like that. It really opens you up to people who weren't just Vegan, but people who had all kinds of dietary restrictions, which now is kind of a really big deal for, you know, people who are lactose intolerant or people who have a gluten tolerance and things of that nature. And I'm wondering if as you go about constructing the cookbook, I know it's it's now almost a decade over now, but do you pay special attention because your original focus was dietary restrictions when you go to combine or as a chef when you go to make things like that, do you specifically ask yourself, looking at a dish like what can I exclude or include to make sure that those people with restrictions are included in a certain number of meals? Or is that a consideration that you have? 

 

[00:25:33] Yeah, actually, when I wrote the book, I had that exact thing in mind where I wanted it to be inclusive for as many people as possible. So each recipe has an option for gluten free, low sodium, low sugar. So actually should send you a copy of the book. But there is a little key with little icons, and that's at the top of each page. And then there Asterix at the bottom for the squawks. If you want to make this dish for two specific for nice special diet. So I thought of that early on because I didn't want it again, because I always wanted to be inclusive, not just Vegan. And I actually remember fighting with my publisher because they wanted me. It says right under the heading, right under the title. It says one hundred fifty plant based recipes from around the world. And I fought them on the word plant based versus Vegan because again, my scope was always casting a wider net and being more mainstream versus niche. And I think that's why I've been able to I was always more mainstream. I never started in the Vegan world and, you know, jumped the river. I was always on the other side of the river and figured, well, the vegans will find me anyway. For me, it was much more important to be inclusive of everyone else and and showcase this alternative as an actual alternative. Not not anything that needs to be black and white. Not that you have to completely go vegan or anything like that. I wanted it to be an option for people and to be. Approachable to not turn anyone away. So I'm glad that I I won that battle. Yeah. But what I did. Very inclusive and all the recipes that I make on my site as well. I try to offer. There are some that are kind of difficult to do a certain way. But I would say a good eighty five percent of my recipes can be made to suit any special diet. 

 

[00:27:43] Yeah. And substitutions I think are key. I mean, I really feel and I've I've been Vegan, you know, for over seven years now. 

 

[00:27:52] And so I definitely am a little bit more sage in that. But I think that the first thing that people think is you must live off breads. And then the second I tell them that I'm gluten free, they think you don't need anything. But actually, I think every cuisine and I want to get into this on your site, you kind of get into like a hint towards this, but every cuisine all over the world can be altered. You know, and and made to be whether it's Vegan or gluten free. And there's actually a lot of freedom once you start to just understand the ingredients of that land, like what they you know, I just got back from Fiji and all of my friends said, did you starve? And I said, no, they have cassava, which is like this healthy friend of the potato, which I think potatoes are healthy anyway. But many people here don't like it. And I give them a start to things like that. But cassava is this even healthier big sister of a potato and that all these do they have long beans, which are green beans anyway, once you kind of. And it actually changes your relationship with traveling, you know, as a Vegan, you know, actually cooking and things like that and going places and having these conversations which become education. Introducing the concept of veganism to a Fijian is fascinating. You know, it's a fun time because they'll say, OK. So you don't eat any of that. But do you eat fish, you know? I mean, you climb through almost every single category. And so I want to turn to that with you just because I think your Web site, especially as it as a Voyager is as this site is called the Healthy Voyager. I, I want to get into your experience with traveling and what what determines what bits and pieces you include in the site and therefore your overall brand and how you kind of curate all of it. Can you climb us through, first of all, what the site is intended to do and kind of explain to your viewer? 

 

[00:29:44] Sure. Yeah, it's it's definitely a resource for people and not just people wanting to go on culinary trips. It's geared towards travel destinations around the world. And I showcase the hotels, sustainable activities and services. Obviously, restaurants, tips. And and then I have the recipes. And then I also host lifestyle healthy articles, things like that. I used to do product reviews, but I kind of got away from that just because so many people do that. And I kind of feel like I wanted to to narrow it back down to to boil it down to to the core of what I'm interested in, which is, of course, travel and food. But as far as curating, I travel all the time for work. So it really depends. I cover every place that I go. And some of the times I'm traveling because I'm working with a tourism board or I'm working with a cruise line or I'm working with a local CBB. So it really just depends which I also love because it's never the same thing. Every trip is completely different. Sometimes it's solo travel. Sometimes it's a solo press trip. Sometimes I'm with a group of media. Sometimes I get to bring somebody with me. So it's all very different. And every destination has been quite different in the way that the itineraries have been set. Whether it's by me or in tandem with the tourism board or them setting it up for me entirely. So the scope is always different, but I try to find the most interesting things. I do like to cover some of the, I would say maybe generic things for those travelers who are looking for that. But then I will showcase something that is off the beaten path or a hidden gem. I like a mix and match of that because not everyone I was actually speaking with someone. Yes. Or about yesterday about this. Not everyone is super adventurous. I tend to take quite a few risks and I like I like some crazy adventures. And the the more exotic and kooky and less touristy places, the more I like it. But that's not true for everyone. 

 

[00:32:07] So I like to be able to be of service to everyone and showcase something for every person because everyone has different tastes and needs when it comes to travel. But one of one of the things I've really loved to do, and this has happened more and more, more over the past few years, is do things with locals. Recently I was, well, not too recent, but I was in Finland and I was in the Arctic Circle and this little town called Rovaniemi, and it was late summer and it was absolutely gorgeous. And I met this woman who shows how traditional lap Landis lifestyle was and how she's keeping it alive. And she hosted these really cool classes. She does these really cool art projects and brings people into her home. So she and I went foraging in the forest behind her house and picked lingonberries that went back to her house and made a Vegan lingonberry pie. So for me, that was just an incredible experience. And for her, again, like you were saying, to explain being Vegan to someone who lives off the land in Finland like that is like, what are you talking about? 

 

[00:33:17] But she when we finished the pie, she's like, wow, this is really delicious. And it doesn't taste any different than the one that we would've normally made. So it's so fun to be able to share my knowledge and lifestyle with somebody who wouldn't normally and then vice versa. So I've found that to be the the most special thing that's coming out of what I'm doing now as the show and my brand has evolved. 

 

[00:33:43] Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's true. 

 

[00:33:46] I think that those kinds of interactions and growth opportunities, when I first became Vegan, you know, even the opportunity to call ahead, when you were when I was making reservations towards restaurants that required it and things like that, and then having opening up a dialog with chefs and things was just not pursued with me, you know, to have them reevaluate their craft. Most restaurants with chefs that, you know, where you take reservations and things of that nature, like they're they care. You know, they're artists and they're scientists. They're craft makers. And they really want to explore some of those things. 

 

[00:34:21] And so I've had really good experiences. You know, everyone's had bad. Anytime you come across across an exclusionary lifestyle. 

 

[00:34:29] But I've had some really beautiful opportunities as well. And I think that anytime there's an opportunity to open up a dialog between an industry and an individual or two individuals, it's it's gonna be a good thing. So I always I try to push those stories more. You know, when people get a little bit nervous and the day has come and gone for being nervous about a plant based or Vegan lifestyle, because if anyone has turned on any kind of social, you know, that's where all of us and most definitely our great grandchildren are headed. We cannot sustain the ME Dadri industry. So is not meoh mathematics. This is not my belief anymore. Like they pushed the numbers. 

 

[00:35:05] So coming to light every day. 

 

[00:35:09] Absolutely. So if someone wanted to work with you or get your advice or get your consulting expertize the best way to contact you is it through healthy Voyager, your dot com. 

 

[00:35:20] Yeah, yeah, absolutely, if I can share my emails. Carolyn at the healthy Voyager dot com and I help people in all sorts of ways, from nutrition counseling to personal branding. In fact, right now with them, with our current situation. I've I've been setting up a new website just for my consulting because I just have it kind of as a page on Healthy Boyd Recombinant tends to be buried by all the other content. But I'm launching a Web site that's just going to be for. Consulting and coaching and all the different things that I can help people with from personal PR or business PR menu, recipe development, health and wellness. So I. Because of my nine lives. I have quite a bit of information that I can help people in their transitions in life or setting up new businesses, entrepreneurs, anything like that. 

 

[00:36:21] So I've decided to make that a separate thing from healthy Voyager. And hopefully I'll have that coming soon. 

 

[00:36:29] Absolutely. For everyone listening. You can reach out to her as an as as these things come about. I'm sure that they're updated on her Web site. I want to say thank you so much, Carolyn, for speaking with me today. 

 

[00:36:41] I know it's a crazy time period, and I know you're really busy and I appreciate you taking the time to lend us your wisdom. 

 

[00:36:47] Yes. Thank you so much for having me. 

 

[00:36:49] Absolutely. And for everyone else listening, you can contact her one more time. You've been speaking with Carolyn Scott Hamilton. Her Web site is Healthy Voyager dot com. 

 

[00:36:59] And until we speak again next time. Stay safe and eat clean. 

Chatting with Bhavani; co-founder of Green Lion Pub in Australia.

Today I sat down with Bhavani Baumann; Co-founder of The Green Lion, Australia’s first 100% Vegan Pub Bistro in the Inner West of Sydney NSW. She currently lives in Sydney’s Inner West with her Husband and two daughter’s. Having previously run other small businesses and working as a professional singer,Bhavani spent the few years leading up to The Green Lion studying Marketing, Cooking cakes for cafes and being a stay at home Mum.

 

Nothing prepared her for how fast The Green Lion became well known for doing traditional Aussie food, it was a destination and people travelled from all over the world to eat there. After a successful 4 years the bistro closed due to COVID -19 and the pub being sold. Whilst still running the pub Bhavani and her business partner started selling Green Lion ready meals to Harris Farm and IGA, today they have 15 lines that also includes desserts, pastizzis and sauces selling in NSW, QLD, ACT and VIC. The Green Lion will reopen as a take-away and home delivery in Sydney in the next few weeks.

 

Being bought up by hippy parents and spending her youth travelling around Australia in Kombi vans and living in communes, Bhavani was a vegetarian from birth, in 2014 she became a vegan after reading about the dairy industry and realising it’s no different to an abattoir. Whilst veganism is her passion, she does not believe in preaching but rather prefers to put good plant based in front of people. This has become the ethos of The Green Lion. 

 

Bhavani believes that the more accessible and main- stream vegan food can be will encourage more people to eat plant based. She is excited to be at the forefront of the movement that in a few short years has gained such momentum and has become more acceptable by the general population in the world.

 

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

Talking With Diana Edelman of Vegans, Baby

Today I talked with Diana Edelman. Diana is the founder of Vegans, Baby, a business she created to make vegan life easier and attainable and vegan dining more approachable. Not only does her site serve as the definitive guide to vegan-friendly dining in Las Vegas, she also has emerged as a plant-based leader and influential figure in the culinary scene.

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

facebook.com/vegansbaby

twitter.com/vegansbaby

instagram.com/vegansbaby

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIFBlS5uxZQQ7TjAV-1TKlA

 

TRANSCRIPTION

[00:00:10] Hi, I'm Patricia. And this is investigating Vegan life with Patricia Kathleen. This series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Our inquiry is an effort to examine the variety of industries and lifestyle tenants in the world of Vegan life. To that end, we will cover topics that have revealed themselves as Kofman and integral when exploring veganism. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. You can find information about myself and my podcast at Patricia Kathleen dot com. Welcome to Investigating Vegan Life. Now let's start the conversation. 

 

[00:01:13] Hi, everyone, welcome back. This is your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Diana Edelman. 

 

[00:01:19] She's the founder of Vegans Baby. You can find her online at w w w dot vegans baby dot com. 

 

[00:01:26] Welcome, Diana. Thank you so much for having me. I am so happy to be on. I'm excited to talk to you as well. I have to say, I told you before we started. I love the name of your company. And Web site begins, baby. How do you. So how would you say that in your own personal voice? 

 

[00:01:43] Vegans, baby. 

 

[00:01:44] Yeah, I love it. It just said exactly how it came off in my voice, in my head when I read it, but. 

 

[00:01:51] So we are everyone listening and watching. I'll give you a quick roadmap of today's podcasts and then I'll read a bio on Diana before we start peppering her with questions. We're first going to look at Diana's academic background as well as her early professional life. Kind of give you a platform of where she was before, who we are here. And then we'll look at unpacking begins, baby, namely the website, the services, all the different things attached to it, the videos, YouTube, everything like that. We'll get into the nuts and bolts of it when it was launched. Founders, any funding and all of those particulars. And then we'll get into the ethos and in some of the philosophy behind it before turning our attention towards goals that Diana has for herself as well as her company for the next three years. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that she has. For those of you who may be looking to get involved with what she's doing now or even emulate some of her success that she's had along the way. A quick bio on Diana. Diana Edelman is the founder of Vegan's Baby, a business she created to make Vegan life easier and attainable and Vegan dining more approachable. Not only does her site serve as the definitive guide to Vegan friendly dining in Las Vegas, she also has emerged as a plant based leader and influential figure in the culinary scene since founding Vegans Baby four years ago. She's created a successful Vegan dining month, which recently expanded to other cities in the US. Launched at a Las Vegas Vegan food tour that received recognition as one of the top nine Vegan tours in the world by Travel and Leisure and recently started another arm to her business, International Vegan Tours. The first of which was a sold out tour to Thailand in October. 

 

[00:03:32] She's a partner with the James Beard Foundation and was the first to curate a chef driven Vegan dinner at the famous James Beard house, highlighting a city and its chefs and now curates dinners. They're regularly. Diana is also a partner with Life Is Beautiful. The major Music, Food and Art Festival in Las Vegas and curates their Vegan area. 

 

[00:03:56] She also recently launched the Good Falke, a podcast that highlights leaders in the plant based movement from culinary lifestyle, travel and entrepreneurial worlds. 

 

[00:04:06] So I'm so excited. 

 

[00:04:08] And Diana, you've had such a prolific history and it's cool because a lot of people kind of get into their niche in the Vegan scene. And I love that, too. And they stay there. But it feels like you've really married a lot of areas to each other and we need this annexation. I think out in the Vegan world, you know, and people like you who are, you know, reaching out into other communities and even your scope on traveling all over the world and tying your Vegan voice into that. 

 

[00:04:35] But before we get into some of those particular questions, which I have a million of you, I'm hoping you can set the stage for us, giving us a little bit of your academic background or early professional life that kind of brought you to where you are now. 

 

[00:04:46] Sure. So I have a bachelors and I graduated many years ago with a degree in mass communications, public relations. So I took that and started a career in PR. And then when I turned 30, I decided I didn't want to do PR anymore. I wanted to travel and I wanted to write. So I started a travel blog and it became one of the top 100 travel blogs in the world for a minute. This was before. They are what they are now. This was a decade ago. And so I did the travel blog and then I. Since then. Or for a bit. I balance between freelance writing, NPR and now I run my own business that marries all of the things I love, which is writing, traveling a little bit of PR, but not really. 

 

[00:05:33] And social media and making change and and you know, standing up for the animals in a in a in a non aggressive in your face way. 

 

[00:05:43] Yeah. OK. And how did you. Can you tell us a little bit about your Vegan story? Were you born Vegan? Did you come home on your own? 

 

[00:05:50] I did. So I, I never really liked meat, but I ate it actually when I did PR in Vegas. I was the director of PR for a Steak House. So I come a long way from there. I actually I stopped eating meat. I moved to Thailand in 2012 and took a job working with an elephant rescue organization and sanctuary. And I did their PR and I did their social media. And I was coming over the sanctuary like my first week of living in Thailand. And I saw a truck full of pigs with their little heads sticking out, being taken to slaughter. And I stopped eating meat then. And then three years later, after I lived in Thailand, I was planning to move back to Vegas. 

 

[00:06:31] And a dear friend of mine and I were talking and she was just like, I don't get it, Diana. You know, you you done all this work and you don't eat meat. Why aren't you Vegan? And I was like, you know what? Why? Why am I not vegan? You're absolutely right. You know, like I always thought I could never give up eggs. I can never give up cheese and pizza. It was a food group. So when I moved back to Vegas is actually when I started vegans, baby it was really to go Vegan and show people that if I can do it, you can, too. And that vegan isnt just baked potatoes and salads. 

 

[00:07:02] Right. And pasta. Oh yeah. Everyone talks about that. Yeah. Would you describe like, looking back now. Would you describe it as beginning with this compassion for animals that was like your nexus into becoming vegan and then. 

 

[00:07:17] Yes, like it's turned towards food. 

 

[00:07:20] Yeah. I mean the reason I do everything I do is for the animals. You know, I'm I'm an ethical began. So everything I do like it's my form of animal activism because I did the other form of it when I was doing rescue. And I saw it just it was it was very hard. It was very draining. It wasn't it wasn't a lifestyle I could keep up. 

 

[00:07:39] And so this is my form of activism now and making change by through food. 

 

[00:07:44] Absolutely. Yeah. And it's it's a powerful one. So how when was let's get into some of the nuts and bolts. When was Vegan baby launched with you? 

 

[00:07:53] Were you a singular founder? Do you have co-founders and did you take any funding. 

 

[00:07:57] OK. I launched vegans, baby if the website went live April 2016 and I had my official launch the middle of May 2016. It's just me. I have not received funding. I do have someone that helps me with that helps me with my website. 

 

[00:08:20] But that's that's it. 

 

[00:08:23] Yeah. So we'll I have people that want to fund, but I'm just I get nervous and I'm not. 

 

[00:08:32] I'm not ready to do it yet. 

 

[00:08:34] Sure, there's a lot of areas to consider when you're getting into bed, so to speak, with someone. Then what? What was the impetus for the launch? Did you have all of the information? 

 

[00:08:44] Do you have an idea for what the website was going to offer initially, or was it just a place to kind of collect all of your efforts? 

 

[00:08:52] So initially, when I first started vegan's, maybe it was basically. Before I went Vegan, when I was talking about going begin, I lived in Spain and this is where Bergonzi was kind of born and I was going through that, I couldn't go Vegan and then, OK, I will. And I pulled up my phone and Googled like Vegan options in Las Vegas. And I lived there before and there were like four restaurants and then a bunch of of like Indian and Thai places. And I knew because I go back there, I would visit every year it's my old home that there were so many more options than that. But there was no place to see those options. There was nothing that would tell me, oh, this is what you can get. This is the restaurant. And so I started Vegan maybe really for myself to go in and and just write down and share what Vegan options restaurants had and to show people that, you know, this restaurant and in this part of town doesn't market to Vegan menu. But these are these are the items that are already Vegan that you can get. 

 

[00:09:54] Yes, that's how it started. 

 

[00:09:55] I have and likewise, you know, I think I'm on record several times my research manager tells me saying, you know, why aren't there more indexes? 

 

[00:10:04] Why aren't their sites telling vegan's where to go? You have, you know, a happy cow. There's a couple of places, but they're ill managed or they're still kind of, you know, getting their their bearings. No insult intended upon them. But, yeah, just felt as though are so many unlikely vegans coming to the world now. Yeah. Coming at it for all different. A myriad of reasons, particularly with the pandemic upon us, people reexamining health. And I just felt like the opportunity to have index is just there hadn't been these globetrotting warriors like yourself that were, you know, kind of telling everybody where to go. And likewise, I have started collecting over the past decade my own indexes, you know, creating my own things. And so I had wondered why someone hadn't put it together. And I was elated to have you come on and do it. So when you began with the launch of it, was it just an accumulation of restaurants and where to go in each city? And how did you decide which areas to highlight? Was it just the areas you'd been to first with your own research? 

 

[00:11:01] So when I first launch begins, maybe it was Las Vegas specific and I built up I built up quite a few restaurants and dined there and wrote about them before we launched it because I didn't want to launch with nothing and I wanted to establish the brand. So I started building the brand back. So I launched the website, went live in April, and I started all of my social media and promotions and everything like four months earlier. So that way there was excitement. There was something building up to it. And then here you go. Here's this launch and here this guide. So that's how I started it. And then in terms of other cities, it kind of grew because because of my background, obviously, is travel and travel, blogging and writing. I still Vegas is my home base, but I love traveling. And so when I would go places I like, it's so funny the way my life is changed now that I'm Vegan, I literally travel for food like my whole trip is Vegan. And so I would go to places and just find their Vegan food and do guides based on that. And then it evolved to people in other cities saying, hey, can I contribute a guide to my city? So it became a group effort for all the different dining guides. But the Vegas section of my Web site is the most comprehensive because it's the places it's hundreds of restaurants, whereas other dining guides in other cities are smaller and just have like the top 10 or like, you know, five dishes to order or something like that. 

 

[00:12:21] Absolutely. Have you. That's interesting. Have you ever endeavored on looking to do it per city and getting more cities as comprehensively done as Vegas? 

 

[00:12:31] Oh, all the time. 

 

[00:12:32] That's part of what the funding would have would be for, is to be able to expand some talk. So, yes, and I and I have I have a writer in Tucson now that is doing what I'm doing. And she contributes to my two sons section and. Yeah. But because I me and and it's all self-funded and especially right now, the generation of income is just kind of been put on pause. 

 

[00:13:00] I can't hire people and I really want to be able if someone's gonna do the work I've done, I want to be able to compensate them for their time. 

 

[00:13:07] Absolutely. Well, for anyone listening who's, you know, wanting to collaborate maybe for free at the moment, chomp on vegans, baby, and reach out. Right. And see where you get going. 

 

[00:13:17] I love the fantastic I wondering with the so you've mentioned, you know, the website being launched and then the reason why it started for but for those listening who haven't hit the site yet. If you if you hit your site, can you explain what you're presented with some of the areas that specialty's that you have and some of the services you provide. 

 

[00:13:38] So if you go to vegans baby dot com, you'll see the first part is. Well, right now it's all focused on the pandemic and its focused on Las Vegas, because that is my home city and that is where the majority of my audience is. 

 

[00:13:51] I try to keep it as global as possible, though. So, like, the first the first thing you see is, is it safe to order food from restaurants? And that's research from the CDC and the FDA and things like that. And then there's a couple other stories you can slide through. And then below that, it's a couple of destinations that have guides. If you want Las Vegas, you click on Vegas and then you're presented with a whole other world of different like deals and dining and lifestyle and things like that. And then further down, you have news stories. So typically, because it is the bulk of the content is Vegas. It's Vegas, Vegan dining news and then its recipes from chefs for especially right now for the quarantine. So it's using pantry staples. And then it's going to be my podcast episodes. And then it's news popular articles that people are reading. So I try to keep the content as global as I can with with the focus. Obviously, there's always going to be a lot more Las Vegas than than anything else. But I really try to focus on Vegan. Food and Vegan dining news as it relates to a larger audience than just Las Vegas. And then the site also you have tours. You have my services I offer. You have deals. So some of the deals are nationals. Some of them are specific to Vegas. 

 

[00:15:16] And then, yeah, I think that's it. 

 

[00:15:20] That is a lot. And I wonder, do you ever run into contacts or resources that cross reference. Vegan nutrition with things that are incredibly pertinent right now with like immunization, health and things of that nature? 

 

[00:15:33] Like, do you ever get into those aspects of those articles or do you leave that kind of aside, especially because immunization is such a very hot button topic? I stay away from it. Like, I, you know, I, I don't want to I don't want to get involved in that conversation, basically, like, I have my my I have my beliefs and I don't and I. 

 

[00:15:56] People want to learn about that vegans, baby it wouldn't be the place where begins babies about food and travel. 

 

[00:16:01] Right. And I have to say, I meant the immune system rather than immunizations, which are kind of their own two separate. 

 

[00:16:07] I mean, I'm sorry. It was my misspeaking. The immune system and just the health and nutrition of the culture. I, I sometimes I do. 

 

[00:16:18] Right now I'm focusing I've had two people contribute articles on wellness because I think that's important to maintain your health and wellness during, especially this time. I am not an expert, so I don't write on it, but I'm always open to people. If they want to contribute articles like that. I am happy to share like food to boost your immune system and things like that. 

 

[00:16:36] One hundred percent is exciting. Do you have a ways for people to contact you on your Web site? There's a contact page. That's exciting. So the Vegan tours, can you kind of tie us into what? What does that mean on your Web site? How did you come at that topic? 

 

[00:16:51] So Vegan tours just kind of randomly started one day through the years. I built relationships with restaurants all over the city. And my friend was like, well, you should start few tours. You know, that's not a bad idea. So I did. And it was a monthly tour that I offered downtown Las Vegas. It was five restaurants, 13 dishes. 

 

[00:17:12] And it became a lot for me to handle with all of the other things I do. So now it's private. Two tours of downtown Las Vegas. I offer two different ones. There's one like that Fremont Street area, which is more typical of like downtown. And then there's an arts district, which is a very up and coming cool part of town with breweries and things like that. So I offer both of those. And the downtown tour that I offer was named one of the top nine tours speaking tours in the world by Travel and Leisure. And then from there, a friend of mine and I, we would go to Thailand at the same time. And she was like, we should start a tour. And so her and I partnered for this first tour we did in October, and it was a sold out Vegan tour of Thailand. And since then, I have well, I had four tours planned for this year, all of which have been postponed till 2021. 

 

[00:18:01] But they're all underrated Vegan tours of cities and their Vegan features. 

 

[00:18:06] So it's I'm assuming it's not based on having people come from here, but if you're going to be in Thailand during that time or. 

 

[00:18:12] No, it's a good tour. It's a it's a Vegan tour. It's a tour anywhere from five to 10 days and get hotel food and the travel within. It's all part of it. So basically, it's a it's a culinary tour that also highlights, like, the normal things you would do in a city and some other cool things that I find really interesting as a as a traveler that I would want to go do that. 

 

[00:18:37] So it's a massive undertaking. It's exciting. But it sounds me I mean, the only other undertaking I've heard other than major tour operations doing that are like yoga retreats. And even then, you know, half the day you're cut to do whatever. 

 

[00:18:49] It takes a lot of work. It's a lot of work. 

 

[00:18:52] But it's finally I was just in Madrid and Paris in January, February to go basically eat my way through the cities and figure out where I wanted to go, eat on this tour and meet with restaurant owners and then do a couple things just to kind of see what I wanted to put on the tour. So for me, like researching them, it is so incredibly fun. And then being able to show people, like all the amazing places and food and how how accessible Vegan food is around the world. If you just look, it's it's it's a it's a wonderful thing. 

 

[00:19:24] Absolutely. And within that, I think there's a lot of education. You're Slainte kind of points out as well. And you and I know speaking just earlier, a few minutes ago, this concept of. 

 

[00:19:37] Looking at the cuisine of the country, you know, and realizing what Vegan elements you can deduce things of that nature, I always find that when I travel internationally, I find because I cook so much at home because I don't have the confidence of Vegan food. I'll rent an air BMB and then I'll ask that, you know, my research techniques. What is the most common form of vegetable that they have and then create these meals that I would have created at home with like. So in Fiji, for instance, rather than potatoes, I'm using cassava, which is the potato sister and things of that nature. But you you kind of rediscover what they're doing. And then how can you implement that back in some of the recipes you have? And I imagine the same is true for restaurants when you have these conversations with chefs and restaurant owners. Do they become more aware of their own menu as you're having these talks with? Can we talk about the Vegan items that you have or what you have on your menu that you could be making? Vegan. Is it kind of a light bulb moment for them as well? 

 

[00:20:35] I think I think so. Especially like in Las Vegas. 

 

[00:20:37] I'll meet with with chefs and restaurants and say these are all the dishes you have that if you modify, you can make them Vegan. These are the ingredients you can swap out. So I think, yes, it probably is a light bulb moment. I mean, I assume that the majority of chefs that I that I know all understand plant based dining. But then it's taking it and saying, hey, look, you know, it's OK to be on begins. 

 

[00:21:00] Maybe you have to have three Vegan options and they can't be dishes that are modified. They have to be specific options on the menu that are already there. So, like, I'll work with them to say, hey, look, you know, look, if you pull this salad, if you pull this dish, if you do this in this, you can have a Vegan section on your menu or you can put you know, you can have these options and I can write about you. And so the typically the motivation for that is you get to reach my audience that listens. And so if they create these Vegan dishes, people will come in and eat them and then they become a Vegan from the restaurant and they're supported. So I think I think, yeah, that that they do have that moment where they realize what they can be doing. 

 

[00:21:37] Absolutely. I want to talk a little bit about the chef driven Vegan dinners at the James Beard house. So can you kind of enumerate one of what's going on or what was going on with that endeavor? 

 

[00:21:50] So the James Beard Foundation reached out to me. They saw that I was doing a Vegan dining month and the director of house events reached out to me and said, we really like what you're doing. Would you be interested in putting together a dinner at the James Beard house and bringing in chefs from Las Vegas to cook clay based meal? And I said, oh, my God. I mean, with a James Beard house, you. And they say, come to the house like you go. I've been in the restaurant industry long enough to know, like, if you like, working with the James Beard house, like winning an Oscar or being nominated for an Oscar. Like, it's a huge thing. So I partner with them for the first one. And then I always at that point, I was talking to the director and I said, you know, there's just so many chefs I'd love to work with and I'd love to be able to do this. And you said, well, why don't we do another one? And then it grew into a let's do them twice a year. So the next one was supposed to be May 18th. Obviously, that's that's not happening. And but so it's an ongoing relationship I have with them where I get to pick chefs. 

 

[00:22:46] And actually, none of the chefs I brought with me are Vegan chefs. They're all chefs that are just really, really incredibly talented that I want to see make plant based food and have plant based food at the restaurant. But I want to see them get really creative and really show off their skills and so that that is where they get to do that. 

 

[00:23:04] Does it go both ways? Is there a reverse effect there? So you bring the chef and do you think that that impacts them being brought into this Jane Behar's environment to go back and create more plant based things for themselves? 

 

[00:23:14] I hope so. I hope I. That's my goal. Yeah. 

 

[00:23:20] That's exciting. I want to get into it, since you just dropped the word. I kind of wait for people to drop that bomb before a jump into it. 

 

[00:23:27] But we had we were talking Vegan and then we switched over to this this plant based title. And this is one of the most heated debates in the community right now in nutrition, as well as just across Vegan and plant based empires. How do you. Let's start with asking you, how do you define plant based and how do you define Vegan and what is the difference between those two terms? 

 

[00:23:50] Sure. Vegan I define as a lifestyle. OK, plant based I define as the food you consume. 

 

[00:23:59] OK. And so any intersection between those two would be between the lifestyle and the consumable. OK. So would anything be able to be plant based and not be Vegan? Not in my world. No. OK. So there's been a lot of argument in the community that the advertising community, because plant based has been associated with health and nutrition and things like that, that they've started adapting that label and putting plant based things and then sliding some egg yolk in there. 

 

[00:24:27] And so people are like, it says, plant based. And then you turn it over and it's not Vegan. So. 

 

[00:24:31] Do you think that there will come a time when we need to be saying both plant based and Vegan or should plant based always denote that it is? There is no animal byproducts in it. 

 

[00:24:40] I think plant based is plants and it should denote there's no animal byproducts in it. I don't think an egg comes to a plant. So I you know, I think it's very misleading if or if there's a box and I'm going to purchase something and it's as plant based. And then you look at the back and there's egg or there is whey or there's something in it that isn't plant based. 

 

[00:24:59] Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. That's it's kind of being attached. Boy, I suppose it will be left up to the regulators to see whether or not that's done. But I do think that it's an interesting concept and people interchange it a lot. 

 

[00:25:12] You know, there's been a lot of argument that plant based is much more friendly on the years than Vegan Vegan hyped up to be a politicized movement, whereas plant basis based on nutrition. Yeah. And then there's also been people that feel like a Vegan actually is more safe. It's a safer label because it really is saying there's absolutely no animal byproducts. So I can see both points of view. But it'll be interesting to see how that plays out, particularly given that it's getting a lot more attention these days. Yeah. I want to turn our attention towards the goals that you have. And I know that this is as hard of a topic as veganism, if you will, but I know that with the pandemic and the uncertainty in the environment across our entire globe. However, I'm curious, a lot of vegans have had deeper conversations with themselves about their companies, given that the pandemic, you know, has a lot of return to everyone returning to the conversations about health and nutrition. And I'm wondering if that has affected your goals. I know that the current climate for things shutting down has changed people's goals. But can you speak to vegans baby's goals over the next one to three years? And if there has been any dialog that incorporated the covered nineteen pandemic? 

 

[00:26:25] I sense a really good question. I've had to pivot a lot with the pandemic because obviously if I'm going out to eat, I'm writing about the restaurant that's not happening anymore. So I pivoted march toward like the the recipe side of things. And so the behind the scenes work of consulting and working on other projects. But in terms of the future, my my goals haven't changed. You know, I hope we get through this quickly. 

 

[00:26:53] But aside from the restaurant consulting I'm still doing and I'm doing private coaching and other things like that. 

 

[00:26:59] I mean, I've I've I've launched the podcast. 

 

[00:27:03] I've been focusing more on video. But other than that, you know, I want to do my tours. I want to be able to expand cities. I want to consult more with restaurants. Now, none of those things have changed at all. The only thing I can think of that might have changed is just the way I do consulting, because obviously, if a restaurant isn't open for service, in its typical sense, we have to kind of pivot and look at other options like delivery and take out and how they can best market that to the Beacon community as well as just the normal community. Because as I mentioned, I worked in the restaurant industry for a long time. I started as a server. I was guest services. I done PR. So I understand the ins and outs of the restaurant industry and restaurants. So I'm really trying to do what I can there to help keep restaurants afloat. 

 

[00:27:45] But other than that, you know, it's hopefully just business full steam ahead once we're able to kind of get get through this. 

 

[00:27:52] Absolutely. Well, let's look at your podcast really briefly. Can you tell us when you launched it? How many episodes you have and who you've been kind of speaking with? Or are they just monologues from you? 

 

[00:28:04] No, I don't think I'm that interesting to have every episode I have. 

 

[00:28:09] So it actually there are a few up right now, but it will officially launch the next few days. But I'm building up obviously the backlog and I want people to go when they click on it to see that there's more than just one. 

 

[00:28:21] And it's it's basically it's conversations with people in the chef travel lifestyle, entrepreneurial community with a print based twist. So my first interview is with Chef Jessica Perlstein, who was one of the chefs that came to New York with me for the James Beard dinner I did in November. And she was one of the first chefs on the Las Vegas Strip at a steakhouse to launch a Vegan menu. So we talk about that and we talk about her career cooking at the James Beard house. My second interview was with Chef Leslie D'Urso, who is a very well-known clamp, a chef, and she started as an actress and was Bill NYes, the lab girl, and now she consults with Four Seasons hotels to create plant based dishes for them. She does culinary retreats in other countries. I spoke with Rachel Geiger, who is the founder of Snow Monkey and one of Forbes 30 under 30. I've got a dear friend of mine, Lindsay McCormick, who's the founder of Buy Toothpaste Bits. It was just a shark tank, Lee Asher from the Asher House. So I'm kind of tapping into all the amazing people I know and being like, hi, we please be on my podcast. Yeah. Fortunately, they've all said yes. So I've got about eight or nine that I've recorded. And then I have, I think two more I'm doing next week on the list of about 20 other people I want to reach out to. 

 

[00:29:40] Excellent. You're off to the races, though. Seasoned in no time. Is the name of the podcast. It's called The Good Fork. The Good Fork. 

 

[00:29:48] I like that. Yeah. He'll play on like forks over knives and things like that. I like the visualization. People start making cutlery. It's. Very married to the world of food. I want to wrap everything up with that. Looking at advice that you always ask for advice on. People said I don't have any, you know, nine times out of ten than the ones who who have a ton. It's not really fun to listen to. So I'd rather say advice that you have before the younger you know, if you had looked at what you were doing prior. Right prior to launching Beans Baby and what peas three piece top three pieces of advice. They can be words of warning or words of encouragement or what to look at and focus on more than you would have given the younger you as you were starting. 

 

[00:30:36] Oh, gosh, you know, it's tough because I kind of just wing things like I wake up one day and I'm like, I'm going to start a food tour. I'm going to write guidebook. 

 

[00:30:44] I would say maybe have a better plan of action than what I've done because, I mean, I have no plan. I just think of something and decide I'm going to do it and then I do it, which I think depending on the way you work. It's great. Like, I just kind of always trust that I'm gonna land on my feet and it's gonna work out. However it's supposed to. 

 

[00:31:03] I would say. Really think about the name your business, because I love Vegan, maybe, but I feel like it's very limiting. 

 

[00:31:13] And so for vegans, baby, obviously it's coming from a Las Vegas baby reference. And now that I'm expanding and I think that maybe that wasn't the best path for a name, but I didn't think about it. I didn't think where I would be in three years. All I thought I thought small. And it was I'm going to write an online guide to Vegan dining in Las Vegas and never took the time to think, where could this go? So maybe take some time and write down your big dreams. See what it is that like, if you were if you had your perfect business, what would it be that you want and kind of work backwards from that to get them figure out how you're going to get there? 

 

[00:31:52] Whereas I kind of was just. I never did. I never did. That's probably the biggest piece. And then I know that it's not easy. 

 

[00:32:03] I started Vegans baby. And, you know, it's it's taken me four years to come to a place where I can bring in income from it. 

 

[00:32:14] And now that income is. 

 

[00:32:17] Stopped. So especially in today's world, if you are building a business. I would definitely consider things like what we're going through right now where we've never had to think of that before. But is your business able to function with a shutdown? And if it isn't, what can you do to make it function? What are what are your what are your backup plans if it doesn't work? 

 

[00:32:42] I think those are the biggest things. 

 

[00:32:43] Nice. So I have got a plan of action. Pay close attention to naming the business. And remember, Leslie, that it's not easy. Make sure that you have multiple areas that it communicates to and restrictions under can't the pandemic that we're having now. 

 

[00:32:59] Those are all perfect pieces of advice. I'm wondering as we kind of wrap up for today as as Vegan and kind of living that lifestyle, do you have kind of a main area that it is affected most for you? 

 

[00:33:14] Would you say that it's affected your career or your health or what part of being Vegan has been most poignant for you? 

 

[00:33:25] All of it. 

 

[00:33:26] I think, like I, I never expected to be where I am today. I never expected or thought that I would work with the James Beard Foundation. So being begin, obviously, I mean, I have turned it into a part of my business because I was always taught to find your niche. My mom always said, find your niche, find your passion. And I found both of them. And so now it's like I literally wake up every day and I'm making change and I'm doing good and I'm helping other people. And I'm also getting it to do this full time. So it really is it's impacted every aspect of my life. There's not a day that goes by where the word Vegan doesn't come out of my mouth or it's not in my thought like it is very much it is my entire life. So knowing Vegan literally changed my my entire course or path I was on. 

 

[00:34:15] Absolutely. That's awesome. And I find that to be true with them for a lot of people that I'm interviewing for this. You know, it's it's different than even one's occupation. 

 

[00:34:25] It kind of being Vegan tends to be an identity that's attached to people's core identities, which I guess is fantastic. 

 

[00:34:33] Well, we're out of time today, Diana. But I want to say thank you so much for giving us your time. I know everybody is scrambling right now, and because of that, they are both at once available and busy. 

 

[00:34:43] And so thank you for sticking a weird. 

 

[00:34:46] You know, I'm working more than I've ever worked in my life and I'm not making any money from it. But cool, because I at least I'm, like, loving what I'm doing. But, you know, it's a weird it's a weird spot. But see, there's Phyto. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. 

 

[00:35:01] Yeah, absolutely. And I love that phyto came in right now at the very least. He was already in conversation, them ending a conversation, taking them out. He's going to go, Mom. Absolutely. 

 

[00:35:15] Well, for everyone listening, thank you for giving us your time. We've been talking with Diana Edelman. She's the founder of Vegans, baby you can find her online at vaegans baby dot com until we speak again next time. 

 

[00:35:26] Remember to eat well, eat clean, stay safe. Always bet on yourself.

A Conversation With Elysabeth Alfano of The Elysabeth Alfano Show

Today I chat with Elysabeth Alfano. Elysabeth wears many hats…all of them vegan!  She is the host of the only plant-based radio show in the nation, The Elysabeth Alfano Show, syndicated on the Smart Talk Radio Network and WCGO-Chicago. In addition, she hosts the Plantbased Business Hour as part of her overall Awesome Vegans Interview Series

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

http://ElysabethAlfano.com

@ElysabethAlfano

 

TRANSCRIPTION

[00:00:10] Hi, I'm Patricia. And this is investigating Vegan life with Patricia Kathleen. This series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Our inquiry is an effort to examine the variety of industries and lifestyle tenants in the world of Vegan life. To that end. We will cover topics that have revealed themselves as Kofman and integral when exploring veganism. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. You can find information about myself and my podcast at Patricia Kathleen dot com. Welcome to Investigating Vegan Life. Now let's start the conversation. 

 

[00:01:13] Hi, everyone, welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. 

 

[00:01:16] And today we are sitting down with Elysabeth Alfano. Elysabeth is a radio and podcast host, an award winning media personality content producer and a plant based expert. You can find out more about her company and the work she's doing on her Web site. 

 

[00:01:33] Elysabeth Alfano, dot com. That is e l y s a b e t h a l f a n o dot com. 

 

[00:01:40] Welcome, Elysabeth. 

 

[00:01:42] Hi. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of climb through. 

 

[00:01:46] You have such a prolific history and your Vegan journey and story and all of the work you're doing hasn't just been prolific. I know it's changing on the daily, as is everyone's, you know, enterprise. Sure it is. So if everyone listening, I'm going to read a bio on Elysabeth. But before I do that, I'll offer you a quick roadmap of today's podcast. We're going to first look at Elysabeth's academic and professional history briefly to just get a platform of understanding of her history. And then we'll start unpacking the services and the podcast. This shows the work that she's done and is continuing to do on her Web site. Elysabeth Alfano, dot com. And then we'll turn our efforts toward some of like the ethos and the philosophical endeavors and the creativity behind the work that she's doing and going to work in the future at. And then we'll look at goals as to what she thinks she might be doing with her company. Again, this is an area that's changing on the daily for people. So that's exciting. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that Elysabth may have for those of you looking to get involved with her endeavors and maybe emulate some of her success. A quick bio on Elysabeth before I pepper her with questions. Elysabeth Alfano wears many hats. All of them Vegan. She's the host of the only plant based radio show in the nation. The Elysabeth Alfonzo show, syndicated on the Smart Talk Radio Network and WCG O Chicago. In addition, she hosts the plant based Business Hour as part of her overall Awesome Vegans interview series live on Jane Unchanged News Network. Before both shows became become available on all podcasts platforms, Elysabeth is also a plant based expert for mainstream media, breaking down the plant based news for the general public on radio and TV. She is a featured chef and one of the executive producers of the new groundbreaking Being Cooking series on Amazon Prime. New Day. New Chef Elysabth does a recipe development and consultation for restaurants and food companies looking to Veganize their offerings. For more information on all of this, as I said, you can visit Elysabeth Alfano, dot com. So, Elysabeth, before we climb into you, I'm really excited because you've had such a prolific career and it's kind of spanned a lot of different industries, but carried a common theme with your Vegan expertize. But before we get into any of that, I'm hoping you can draw us just a brief academic background and early professional life to kind of garner a sense of your platform as you came into this journey. 

 

[00:04:12] Sure. Oh, gosh. I'll be brief here. Basically, I went to business school and then I worked for Fortune 500 companies. And then I left that and I opened my own business. And then this would have been around the early 2000s or so, around 2007, maybe actually the economy crashed. And I got out of that business and took a little time off and in kind of re pivoting my life, if you will, I thought about the things that are really important to me that I really want to spend time on. And I thought, OK, I'm going to really shift my efforts to the plant based world. And at that point, I didn't know how deeply I was going to dove into veganism if it was going to be through journalism, only if it was going to be through business consulting. It was going to be through cooking. I'm Sicilian. You just can't keep me away from the kitchen. It's really a hobby. And I love more than anything. And that's a joy to see that come to something as major as Amazon Prime, which I didn't really see coming because I've been so focused on business my whole life and business reporting as well. So I just didn't know where it was gonna take me. But I knew when the economy kind of fell apart that it was a great time for me to look at my life and really focus on the things that I'm passionate about, and that's veganism. So that's really how I shifted over to what I do now. 

 

[00:05:35] That's awesome. Did you have it like a baptismal experience or what I mean by that is just some kind of an aha moment. And frequently you did or don't. OK. 

 

[00:05:43] So as a kid, I mean really young, five, seven years old, I couldn't eat meat, I couldn't chew it. I couldn't have explained to you the ethical dilemma for me. But I knew something was wrong beyond the fact that I didn't like the muscle and I didn't like the taste. I knew internally this was going against what I loved. 

 

[00:06:03] I loved animals more than dolls or tours or anything. It was always animals. I just wanted to be around animals and so I wouldn't eat it at the dinner table. And my parents who loved me and I love them back and everything's good. It's all wonderful. They were panicked that it wasn't going to get enough, quote unquote, protein. It's a Converse's I'm sure we'll have here. So they punished me to stay at the table and that I had to finish the meat on my plate and I couldn't do it. So I'd be alone for three, four hours at a time. And then I started hiding the meat everywhere, putting it under the table or putting it at the bottom of the garbage container or in my pockets, my pants pockets. And then my folks would find the rotting meat everywhere and then they punish me for lying. So fast forward as an adult way into my adult years. I think that's what we do. We have to eat meat. There's no way around it. We all know we've seen factory farm footage. I won't go into it. I don't have to because everyone knows it's there. We've all seen it. But we have this disconnect in our lives. We do it anyway. Even though we all love animals, no one wants to harm animals. That's crazy. So I just thought as an adult that we are supposed to live with this disconnect. And it never sat well with me and it was always a point of uncomfort ability. And I'd go out to restaurants with people. And I just see, like, you know, I was the closet vegetarian over here, just sort of ordering my non meat stuff in silence. I didn't want anyone to know where to focus on me or to even bring up the conversation. Then my nephew went to the University of Oregon. He's an athlete. He came home from the first semester of school Thanksgiving, and he said, oh, yeah, coach told me if I want to play for the team, no meat, no dairy. And I was like, you got a professional to give you permission. I'd been waiting for an adult, you know, like a real professional in the area to give me permission my whole life since I was a kid. So I was Vegan in that sentance. I really like that moment. It's so crystal clear in my head. I was vegan in that sentence. I was like, oh, me too. I'm going Vegan. I knew there was something to this Vegan thing. I'm going Vegan. So I was vegan that day. 

 

[00:08:02] I love that being given permission. Isn't it so ironic that your entire life is isn't even as a child, you know, you you knew that that lifestyle felt right for you, and yet it took this kind of obscure reference of being given permission. It's I think it's true through a lot of areas. So what did your original journey look like? You became Vegan. Did you immediately do an investigative search? And what year was that? What did the industry or the community look like back then? 

 

[00:08:28] Right. It was late. It was really late in the game. Now, mind you, I had been issuing meat my whole life, but not dairy. I didn't know how to do that. I didn't even know the ill will of the dairy industry, which I do now. And if if anyone listening doesn't know about that, I'll just say that the dairy industry is built on breaking the bond between mother and baby. 

 

[00:08:49] I'll let you do your own research from there. But that's also not something that aligns with my values. So, you know, when I learned about that, I was like, oh, hey, oh, no, I'm not doing that either. So that when I made this final decision, it was the end of 2015. So already veganism had advanced in some ways. You know, I wasn't a pioneer like many people three decades ago. Even though I was trying to find my way all those decades, I didn't make anything official until the end of 2015. 

 

[00:09:17] I would say even the change over those past five years has been really significant in the grand scheme of things. 

 

[00:09:23] You know, it's arguable that in 30 years ago, the change of five years wasn't how it's been now due to the advent of obvious media, things like game changers, forks and knives, the documentaries, all of the work being done. But it's it's a wild ride to have been on. So you kind of came together. You had this this birth, if you will, of this change into the Vegan lifestyle. You're doing this work. How did you start to marry what you came from in your professional life into what is now Elysabeth Alfano dot com? How did those things come together? And did you launch with a specific service or was it just this idea of doing a Web site? 

 

[00:10:01] Oh, gosh. So trial and error. You know, I'd love to say that life is perfectly thought out. And I did have a plan and a strategy. 

 

[00:10:07] But, you know, you kind of go from there and you see where life takes you. I had been doing celebrity interviews, so my business, as I say, with a real estate market, had tanked in 2007. All businesses were pretty slow. I thought I've always loved this hobby of journalism and I love interviewing people getting up close, just like what you're doing, getting up close, really trying to find the information that those key nuggets of information. So I was doing some food journalism and some celebrity journalism. And at that time, I just thought, I can't do this anymore. Now that I have switched over to veganism and I know all the wealth of information that needs to get out to people that isn't out there. And I'll say perhaps even specifically, intentionally not getting out there. I just felt that, you know, as someone who believes in sharing information because information is power for people so that they can make the decisions that are important to them in their lives, the individual decisions that people need to make. I wanted to be a part of that. Giving of information. 

 

[00:11:14] So I started out with just a Web site and switching over to because I was already doing celebrity interviews, so I switched over to Celebrity Vegan's, Billy Corgan, Smashing Pumpkins, Moby, Kathy Freston, New York Times best selling author, these kind of folks. And then the more and more I got into it, I was able to just do a deeper dove and really bring together my business, you know, decades of working in business, either from Fortune 500 companies or reform myself and the plant based world, which has been so exciting. 

 

[00:11:45] Talk about, you know, just in the last year what we've seen from the business perspective. It's so exciting. And then, you know, I do have this comfortability around corporations and having worked in them, et cetera. So I know that corporations benefit from healthy employees and they also benefit from fun, engaging activities for their employees to kind of bring them together. So I do work with corporations and just, you know, work on Vegan classes if they want it. 

 

[00:12:11] Cooking classes, informational classes, nutritional classes, this kind of thing. 

 

[00:12:15] So this road from, you know, speaking to celebrities and doing interviews and just kind of pulling out some of those nuggets. It sounds like it's gone until like a heavy educational platform. 

 

[00:12:24] Do you find that a lot of your podcasts are what you're doing now is is consulting and coaching and educationally based? And if so, what core pieces like what core tenants of plant based or Vegan lifestyle have you kind of incorporated into your pedagogy, if you will? 

 

[00:12:42] Tricky business. I will say that. 

 

[00:12:46] The Vegan world is changing so quickly, and the world as we know it covid 19 is changing so quickly. And that's linked to veganism. I see a direct link there. There is a direct link there. So, I mean, I can explain that if you'd like. So everything is just happening so quickly. It's it's hard to say what is driving what at this point. So there's a thirst for knowledge and information. And usually that starts initially with people's health. It starts with what they know the best and they know themselves the best, you know. So we do what we know. We do what we've been raised to do and we start within our own, you know, square foot of where we live. So people usually want to start out with health. 

 

[00:13:30] But in the last year, we've seen that veganism. Scuse me. Plant based businesses are big business. 

 

[00:13:37] They're the big solution. Again, we can talk about that in relation to covid 19 and Pandemics and our health. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease. So it's the big solution. But if beyond meat showed us anything, it's also big money. So there's this interest I'm finding in the business world. I don't know if I bet accurately addressed your question, but as part of what I talk about, I think all information, all interviews, whether they are celebrity or business focused, they're all about information. 

 

[00:14:04] Otherwise, I don't want to say I wouldn't do them. It sounds so curt, but I really want to be a part of the information process where I'm giving people information. So I would say that they're all based on information and the colonel. The major tenant of all the interviews, regardless of the subject, is that the individual consumer is empowered. You don't have to wait two or four years to vote. You vote three times a day every time you make a decision on your plate. You vote with your dollars. And when you align your values with your purchasing power, you will really see a difference in the world, a difference that you care about for your family and your future. We're, of course, seeing that right now with covid 19. So if you want a safe future, you want to say food supply. And if you want to say food supply, you want plant based food. So it is all interconnected. But it starts with the individual and their empowerment. I agree. 

 

[00:14:57] And I think that you've kind of fleshed out a lot of really top buzzwords. And so what I want to do is crawl out. I like to ask as soon as the guests drop it, I go into it. So what I'd like you to do is defined just for you in your work and in your life. How would you define plant based in juxtaposition to Vegan? What do those two words mean to you? 

 

[00:15:20] So plant based to me means a diet and Vegan means a lifestyle. But I am seeing. I would be very hard pressed to ever say that there's a silver lining to covid 19. I really can't say that that's that's what I'm saying. But I do think people are starting to make the connection about the health of their own lives. And this has been really made strongly in the press when we look at the food supply and not being a healthy food supply and that so many pandemics, army born pandemics, I think the CDC says 75 percent of the pandemics are meat borne pandemics. So I think you're seeing people. Go from being interested in only being plant based to being interested in being Vegan, and again, for me that means diet versus lifestyle. 

 

[00:16:18] OK. And have you had any confusion? Have you spoken with clients that have had confusion? I've seen a lot of people who have. Because you're a coach and you're dealing with people and educating them. The plant based has reached into, you know, the marketing and advertising industry and they've appropriated it because of the power of the marketing dollars behind it. And a lot of people who are living a vegan lifestyle had thought originally that plant based had meant that it would be Vegan. But indeed, they're not. You know, you flip it over, there's egg whites and things of that nature. Do you think that there will be a third term involved or do you think that the word Vegan will eventually take over? The consensus was that Vegan was hyper politicized and plant based, came along to make sure that everyone was assuaged and could still eat Vegan things without being scared of becoming, you know, a hippie. However, I think that now it's been appropriated to the point that people are worried about meeting another term or a return to the word Vegan. Do you see any of those dialogs happening with people that you're coaching? 

 

[00:17:21] I do a little bit. I'll say just the fact that you're using the word Vegan in this podcast series, I think speaks really to the point that people are reformulating their vision of their understanding of what being Vegan is and what that means. 

 

[00:17:38] I know it doesn't mean you haven't showered since 1970 or whatever. You know, you have let go of the tree. You're no longer holding on to the tree and hugging it. I mean, I think people are realizing like, oh, hey, hold up. Vegan just might mean that you're in the game changers and Vegan just might mean that you're an award winning athlete and Vegan just might mean that, you know, you've got your mind wrapped around the environment. So I think that that is changing. But in terms of the word plant, based on it being appropriated by business, we're back to you must educate and advocate for yourselves. That means reading labels. So I have seen some companies do a blended product where it's like half meat and half vegetables and they call themselves plant based because they have some plants in there. And of course, this is all marketing folks, marketing, marketing, because those sausages and like products, nuggets, etc. they always had plants in them because they always had filler because they were anyway. So just you need to educate yourself because you cannot be looking to government or corporations and just hope that they have your back. So it's your health. It's your future. It's your family. I hope that this podcast gives you information. I hope that my podcast gives you information. 

 

[00:18:49] I hope you read labels and enjoy reading them so you can take back your health, because ultimately we want to take back our health and take back the health of the planet. 

 

[00:18:58] Absolutely. So I'm curious, one of the one of the services you have listed on your website. And again, I realize that this has been quickly dated over the past three weeks. However, you coach you coach restaurants. You have this, you know, forum for people to be able to reach out who are looking to expand their Vegan menus and things of that nature. I thought it was clever only because I haven't seen that kind of offering. Surely nutritionists and Vegan dietitians are doing that, but that was the first time I'd seen that service offered on someone's website. And I was wondering, I know that right now there may not be a lot of that happening. However, when you do go in. It was it. So you sound like a chef unto your own right and things like that. Do you take caucus with other people or do you just go in and experience the restaurant and work with the owner to develop around? I'm the type of food and all of those things as to what areas you can kind of help them plug with Vegan ideas. Can you tell us a little bit about how that works? 

 

[00:19:59] Yes. Well, first of all, first of all, sometimes people contact me, which is wonderful, but I often don't eat at Vegan restaurants. I try to eat it non Vegan restaurants. And I look to see what they're doing for the vegan community because this is a group that needs to be addressed like anything else. 

 

[00:20:15] And if they don't have good vegan options on their menu, then I reach out to the owners or the manager and I say, like, you know, there's a huge market you're not capitalizing on. And I can help you bring in this market and revamp at least this part of your menu and work within your theme. You know, restaurants are very themed. 

 

[00:20:34] Usually it's gone are the days of just the General Diner, but there's, you know, a take a trip to Spain or, you know, reinvasion Italy or, you know, there's always a theme. So I work within what they're trying to do. But I, you know, work with them to Vegan size it. So I just first find out really. 

 

[00:20:55] Who they are. Because I want to work with them that. And then I try to bring them up to speed to, you know, 2020, where more and more people are going Vegan every day. And that's just not hyperbole. I should have looked at this. This percentage is changing every day. But I. I want to say I'll just throw out one stat from the Financial Times. Plant based meat is up 200 percent. It might be plant based foods, 200 percent in covid time. Then it just goes to show you how many people are turning to these options as a safer food source and a healthier one as well. 

 

[00:21:27] So have you seen. There is. I mean, it's been a few weeks now, and while the dialog is still young and continuing. Have you had conversations with yourself or with your clients regarding connections that you you feel comfortable saying regarding Cauvin 19 and a vegan diet and lifestyle? Have you had new resurfacing questions within your own vegan journey? How does any of that work for you? 

 

[00:21:52] I, I think there's lots of information to share here. So I do have this conversation with my clients all the time, and I have this conversation on all of my podcasts. I mean, it's all anyone's thinking about in a way. There's so much to talk about here. 

 

[00:22:06] But I think one of the important things that people overlook is we are killing ourselves. That's perhaps not the right word. We are bending over backwards to social distance, to wear masks, to wear gloves, to stay at home. We're not. I mean, our economy is crumbling. We're not going to work, as we all know. We're going to great lengths to do this. 

 

[00:22:24] And yet only 10 percent of the planet is social distancing. So we kill 100 billion animals, 70 billion land animals. So let's talk about land animals, 70 billion land animals a year for the seven billion people on the planet. But we're not social distancing the land animals, in fact, we're forcing them to live on top of each other and factory farms. They are the majority. Those living, breathing entities are the majority of the planet. We're 10 percent of the living, breathing entities there, the other 90 percent. And we are forcing them to not social distance. So I don't. And as we know, these diseases go from animal to animal to human. So if the animals are living on top of each other, then you don't have social distancing there. And that's just a pandemic. I think we've seen that already. So that's one topic. And then. Also, just, you know, this isn't the first pandemic that we've had. SaaRs and Ebola and mad cow disease of swine fever is raging through China now. They can't get it under control. We've had outbreaks of Asian bird flu. Scuse me. 

 

[00:23:33] So, you know, I. If you want to not have meat born pandemic's, then we need to start, stop eating meat and stop, you know, paying to produce it. 

 

[00:23:47] Yeah, and the sustainability is is there again. I always tell people I sound on its simplest level, you know, the idea that covid 19 and the possibility of it being linked and born into these meat related environments. You know, if you can't sustain and meat diet that you have because of land or agriculture or water use or things of that nature, you can kind of work your way back into being confused. What will it what does it really matter? But it is hosting environments that host pandemics that take out large percentages of your population is unsustainable. We cease to exist. It's very simple. It's very cut and dry. The algebra isn't so very long, you know. So I think its truest form, it's just it's a very like open and shut moment, which I think that one of the things that is only the most hopeful thing about our humanity is that in these times we can sit back and kind of reflect and recollect. And that's what a lot of people are doing, even with their businesses, but also their health. And even just opening a conversation, a moment for a dialog to happen regarding health and that being human based experience, I think is is a good thing, you know. And so I question anybody who isn't immediately doing that. The hype, hyper ness behind it and things of that nature, I think can kind of die away. But reexamining re educating, I think is creating unlikely vegans. It's a term I use a lot that I love because it lets this population that's popping up of what you're a World War Two vet and you and your Vegan like it's just these people you would not suspect. Yeah. And and I love that. And I think it's doing more of that creation. I want to climb into some of your podcasts and your radio work. So I mentioned in the bio, but I kind of zoomed right by it. And so for everyone listening, I'm hoping you can kind of flesh out the different avenues that you're on, the names of them and the different topics you discuss. 

 

[00:25:45] Sure thing. So my radio show is the Elysabeth Alfano Show and it's the only plant based radio show in the nation. There are it's on WCO and the Smart Talk Radio Network. 

 

[00:25:55] There are some smaller Vegan radio shows, but they're really geared towards vegans. And this show, as you talk about, unlikely begins this show, The Elysabeth Albano show is really not geared towards vegans. It's been geared towards flexitarian because many people do want to feel better. 

 

[00:26:12] Many people see the news and they see not just the correlation between meat borne pandemics and their own lives, but they look at how these large slaughterhouses, factory farms are treating their workers and and how they're treating the community at large because the community is affected by the health of its workers. 

 

[00:26:34] So and they don't like that either. So a lot of people are looking to use shift, but they don't know how because we do what we know. And if you grew up eating meat, meat, you just don't know where else. How do you do it? So how do you start? So the radio show is really geared towards that market to just give them some easy tidbits, some starting points, some fun interviews. I bring back my celebrity interviews here. It's really easy access. You know, some stuff you'll take with the with you, some stuff. Maybe it's not for you, OK? Not everyone's going Vegan today or tomorrow, although they could. And how fun is that? But, you know, not everyone's going to do it. So this is just like dip your toe in the pool and sort of start swimming. So that's what that's all about. 

 

[00:27:14] How do you define really quickly. How do you define a flexitarian. 

 

[00:27:17] Sure. So there's a flexitarian and a reduced-attarian and reduced-attarian. Perhaps the show's really geared more towards them. Reduce-attarians are people who eat meat and they're just trying to eat less of it. Meatless Mondays. Oh, yes. Yes, Meatless Mondays. 

 

[00:27:32] And then maybe then they turn it into Meatless Mondays is now feel good Fridays as well, because you're not having all that meat. 

 

[00:27:37] The slowing you down. So. So that would be reduced-attarian. And a flexitarian is really somebody who primarily eats vegan vegetarian. But you know what? They're out with friends at sushi restaurants. They'll have fish or, you know, if they're traveling and they can't get something, you know, not a big deal. They're not 100 percent they they pretty much, you know, eight times out of ten. They're trying to get all plants, but sometimes they don't. Yeah, okay. 

 

[00:28:03] And then the Awesome Vegans Interview series. 

 

[00:28:06] Yes. So the also biggest influence influencer series, that's where I started. It was such an easy point to get into sharing Vegan information because everybody wants to hear from celebs. 

 

[00:28:16] So that's when I thought, like, I'm not going to push the Vegan rhetoric on anyone. I just want to share information. And it's fun to listen to, you know, the music trajectory of Billy Corgan and The Smashing Pumpkins. 

 

[00:28:29] Oh, yeah. And why did he go Vegan? That's interesting what happened there. 

 

[00:28:32] So, you know, race car driver or football player or, you know, I've got, you know. CEO Ethan Brown. When did he decide to go Vegan? And plus, what's going on with beyond it? So, you know, that's that's it was an easy entry point. And again, I would say that that was geared towards flexitarian reduce the variance. 

 

[00:28:50] But lately. So just five weeks ago, really. March 19th when covid hit. I've started a new podcast called a Plant Based Business Hour. And I'm amazed at the interest in this subject. People now know that it's the solution. And it's big business. 

 

[00:29:09] I'll also throw out some stats, if you don't mind. Sure. You had talked about the environmental aspect of the unsustainability of the meat industry. So just imagine we have all these trees and we need trees because trees pull carbon from the air. 

 

[00:29:25] And we need that as we try to address climate change. But we go ahead and cut down the trees and we make grain that is filled with fiber and protein. Do we give fiber and protein to people? No, we give it to animals and then. Tick tock. Tick tock. We have to wait because, of course, animals grow and they need water and they need land. Tick tock. Tick tock. They need more grains. We got to cut down more trees. We still don't have any meat yet. We're still waiting. We're still waiting. And then finally, we have the meat. I'm not even talking about the ethical issues. We have the meat. Do we eat all the meat? No, we don't use the bones when we use the blood. We don't use the tail. We don't use the ears. It is a wildly inefficient process. So for chickens, the best you're ever going to do is I get this from the World Resources Institute. The best you're ever gonna do is about a dime back on your 90 cents. And no business person wants to invest 90 cents to get back a dime. And for cows, it's much worse. It's something like thirty five to one. Why do I all these things? Because the good news and gosh, I wish it were happening faster. But the point is it is happening is, as I say, no business person wants to sign up for this. And this is why you're seeing Tyson Maple Leaf. These are large meat companies, J.B. S. Cargill. They've changed their names from being a meat company to a protein company, and they've started replacing their meat product lines with plant based product lines. And you're gonna see them get a huge jump in business efficiency and a huge jump in resources. An independent study from the University of Michigan says that beyond meat hamburger, it's generally for all plant based hamburgers. But they did study beyond meat compared to a regular hamburger is ninety nine percent less lands. Ninety three percent less water. No, sorry. Ninety nine percent less water. Ninety three percent less land. 90 percent less greenhouse gas emissions and 40 percent less energy. So, you know, those companies are going to reap all those benefits. And what's exciting for about about the consumer is they're going to have more options and they're going to have big ad budgets telling them this is a healthier way to go. So ultimately, it's better for the consumer and it's better for the planet. 

 

[00:31:30] Absolutely. And this is second time you've brought up. 

 

[00:31:32] I think it's really important to make that connection between everything that we consume in our lives, be it food or anything else, to the advertising and the marketing dollars going into that, because this storyline and the narrative and the rhetoric around it is shaped solely by that money and it influences the future money. Otherwise it wouldn't be a self-sustaining cycle. Right. So it encourages more spending because it's reaching certain targets. And then when you flip that on its head from going evil to good or vice versa, you get the benefits of that again. And like you're saying, I think that the true power as a consumer is choosing, you know, like you said, you have three investment options a day and that's without snacks. You know, you have these moments to really put some effort into the world. And I do believe that small efforts combined is what makes at least our nation. You know, and so I and I like that when you go into coaching. I'm curious with sometimes people as prolific as yourself and what you're doing it. Elysabeth Alfano, dot com. Do you have a niche of a person or a group or an industry that you coach? Are you kind of open to curating a program or anything to any particular entity or person that reaches out to you? 

 

[00:32:46] So I know it's sort of confusing for everybody because I do so much, but I do have this journalism side and this specialty in the plant based business area. 

 

[00:32:56] But then because it's a personal love to cook, I just get my fingers in the kitchen whenever I can, which is how I came to executive produce this Amazon Prime cooking show. And it's how I also decided to get into coaching people because I'm in the kitchen anyway, so I might as well be helping people and again, sharing information. So with that in mind, I decided to go with the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. Oh gosh, how I love them. And I am a certified instructor with their Food for Life program. So through this Food for Life program, what I do is I kind of develop a curriculum for whomever wants it and whatever their need is. So I do like to work with corporations because I like to affect more. One person at a time. So I do like to do through employee wellness classes or even just, as I say, exciting events. 

 

[00:33:48] You know, it can be like a one off event, an employee event around food and cooking, which is so very fun. So that's usually what I like to do. But I do work with individuals as well. And I've been asked by some colleges to teach. So, I mean, I do have a curriculum already set up. So that's that's why it's kind of there and it's easy. But I had to pick I do like corporations because I can go in and I can work with, you know, 40, 50 to 100 people at a time. 

 

[00:34:14] Yeah, absolutely. So I'm wondering with them, given that you have the new trajectory you have. Well, perhaps you do or down, but given the new state of affairs in our world right now, when you look forward to your future and what you've kind of been molding your business and what you're doing in your efforts towards what you're doing, what do you see happening for the next one to three years? And has it changed at all from what you had planned before? 

 

[00:34:40] I think things are gonna happen much faster, too, than I thought. 

 

[00:34:43] And I think that's going to be necessitated by our pandemic situation and our environmental situation. And I think you're going to see the major corporations shifting over their product lines faster than we thought. And, you know, it's a domino effect. And I have no idea when this will happen, but it will happen when you see all these corporations starting to shift to plant based options. You're going to see the subsidies shift with them. So I don't know if people know this, but your tax dollars right now go to, for example, bailing, bailing out meat and dairy when they're failing or they need extra help and they do need extra help because as it is, the prices don't make any sense for any business model. So they get subsidies every year to keep those businesses afloat. Usually not what we think of when we think of American capitalist free market society. So they're really built up on subsidies. And it'll be interesting to see if these subsidies go to the plant based items and what that will do to speed up the process of going plant based. 

 

[00:35:50] And I think that's a really critical point. I spoke with a Vegan bakery owner out of Los Angeles last week, and she was the first one. I you know, you think you know these things. I don't believe there's a documentary alive based on this subject. I haven't seen an article I don't try to read. But she was saying, you know, meat, dairy and eggs, not meat, dairy and eggs are practically and white flour are practically free. She was like as a country, as a bakery to have. She was like, that's where all the profit comes from. And she was talking about the difficulty and kind of translating that to people who didn't understand the arrowroot was not the cheapest thing in the world to get because there hadn't been like a market for those types of things. And she felt like that conversion was coming along as well in this in this sweep up that you you're talking about. But I do think it's very interesting to kind of note those things that you're saying. You know, these they're actually subsidized and ridiculously priced and so that the need is constantly feeding that hungry ghost of a machine. Yeah. And I think this switchover is going to be absolutely illuminating for the stock market, for the health of our country, of the world. What do you think that it will change with you and your work that you're pushing forward? Or will you continue with your educational effort and being part of the dialog? What will you do personally? 

 

[00:37:04] Well, I think I'll be getting involved in more business consulting. So business consulting or even business investing. I don't know how many IP shows we're going to see on the market. Quite frankly, I don't know how many beyond meets there will be. My concern is that any company that is about to go IPO is just going to be bought up by J.B. S. or Cargill or Tyson or produce that those companies can make this switch faster to a better business model for themselves. 

 

[00:37:36] So I don't know if you're going to see a lot of IPOs or if you're just going to see a lot of small plant based businesses. And then this process of buying them up. So I think I'm going to be specializing more and more in the plant based business sector and what is actually happening. And because a lot of non vegans want to get in on the action, there's a lot of, you know, non vegan investors, non impact investors, I'll call them, who are interested in venture capital or, you know, just seeing what's going to happen with the IPO. 

 

[00:38:06] And, you know, when you change your food system like this, like your baker was saying, it's not just a question of, oh, gosh, so now we need more plant based chicken patties because we've got a lot of hamburger. 

 

[00:38:16] So we'll say plant based chicken patties. Well, it's also you need different machinery to produce them. You're also looking at different farming techniques. You're looking at different distribution models. The whole you know, you're really shifting the Titanic. So I think if there's any limitation to how quickly this can change, it's because the rest of the supply chain needs to change, along with this great innovation that you have for a plant based sausage. Okay, well, now you got to figure out the rest of it up how to do it on a mass scale for the world. So a lot even things right down to like the banking system and how do you get a loan if you're a plant based business and they want to see numbers from past years of proven track record in this space. 

 

[00:39:02] But there's no space yet. So bankings going to shift a little better. You know, the whole system from start to finish is going to have to change with it. 

 

[00:39:09] That's exciting. I love a good entrepreneurial, you know, movement and moment. 

 

[00:39:14] So and I'm hoping it shakes up exactly like you're saying. And quickly. Yes. For the health and welfare of of, you know, our humanity as well as an as as for our animals and our environment. And I think that the business sector could use a little shakeup since the last bubble built and verse 10 software. It's sounds like an exciting time and an opportunity, a time filled with opportunity that those with creative or unique take. Angles will should be able to thrive. 

 

[00:39:42] Yeah. And, you know, you've got something really fun now going on in California called Veggie Tech. And it's not only in California to some great places in Chicago doing the same thing. But so you've got this whole industry coming up called Reg Tech, which I think it's really it's just fun to watch. It's fun to be a part of. I mean, the bottom line is we are living in really exciting times. 

 

[00:40:00] I mean, we are living through something that, you know, we are living through the transition of the horse and buggy to the car. The mail system to the Internet. You know, the typewriter to the computer. I mean, I really do think in our lifetime, first of all, young kids are going to look back and say, like, I can't believe they ate animals and did that. 

 

[00:40:19] I think that's going to be up a point of just disgust for younger generations. And I do think that older generations are going to really make the switch in our lifetime. So this is interesting. It's just fascinating times. 

 

[00:40:32] I do, too. I agree. So I'm curious, given your you've you've had a lot of interaction and conversation, albeit virtually with people during this time period and movement yourself, you never stop the dialog. And I'm wondering you we frequently, as people who interview or speak with people, no one ever turns it back on us and says, well, Woody, you know, what are you what are your points of encouragement? You for you yourself, when you think about things and the change in the movement of what's happening, given even covid 19. Do you have a top three pieces of advice? You give yourself a ledger, you keep yourself accountable to any of those things that kind of serve as a moment of positivity or enlightenment for you right now. 

 

[00:41:16] So personal things that I say to myself or things that I say to my clients. 

 

[00:41:21] Em for yourself, for myself. 

 

[00:41:27] Well, this is hard because I'm constantly seeing the forest and then seeing the tree and then seeing the forest and then seeing the tree. 

 

[00:41:33] So as I work on an individual level two to cover each individual company and then I read the news and. I don't know how political you want to be on your podcast, but I'll just speak for myself. I'll read the news and I'll see the chairman of Tyson taking out a full page ad in The New York Times. 

 

[00:41:53] Basically trying to and I felt as a cover up for the way that they'd been treating their employees, they wanted to take out a threatening ad saying, don't be too mad at us for how we treat employees because we're your food and you better start panicking if you don't have us on your side. 

 

[00:42:10] And I thought, well, that's crazy because that food is certainly not essential. I've been living with that that food for a very long time. I know lots of athletes who are living without their food on it. People around the world who culturally live on rice and beans. That food is not essential for one. 

 

[00:42:22] And I didn't appreciate the fear mongering for two and I didn't appreciate the cry for, hey, give me some money, which ended up coming very shortly thereafter. So, you know, I was disappointed in that. So I have to. 

 

[00:42:34] So when I have this disappointments, like I see that kind of thing happen on a large scale of misinformation, I'll call that, you know, and I hear I'm in the information business either through consulting with individual clients or just as a podcast. So it's it's frustrating to see this the machine often turn out. What what seems to be intentional misinformation, and so I have to keep my spirits up because there's so much to be positive about, there's so much that's changing, it's an exciting time. But I have to wrestle with that like one step up. And then is it one step back? I don't think it can be one step back because one step back is really like loops that step that takes you off the planet because you now are deceased, because you're in it. You know, you've got to fix the pandemic situation. It's probably not news to people. So I, I don't think we can go too, too far back. But it's just balancing. So what do I say to myself, sorry that was long answer, what do I say to myself? Nose to the grindstone. Eyes to the sky. 

 

[00:43:36] Nice. Perfect. Short and sweet. Perfect. It works. You have to pay attention to it, right? 

 

[00:43:42] Focus in on that. Yes, it on. You know, I will say something. But we kind of touched up before. 

 

[00:43:48] I just want to say to everybody as well, you know, everyone talks about the health benefits that you get from going Vegan. And I got them. I lost some weight woo hoo I was very excited about that. I have a lot of energy, naturally. And then I got even more energy when I, you know, wasn't having meat and dairy. And I didn't realize how much that stuff was just sitting in my system and holding me back. I guess I'll say, you know, I'm embarrassed to say now, but I'm probably like everybody. I had no idea that meat has no fiber. I didn't know that. Don't ask me. I didn't know that, but I didn't know that. Actually thought meat had fiber. Actually thought meat had fiber. My gosh. So meat has no fiber. You have a super long intestine. So it's just gonna to sit there and chug along. That's why it takes like two or three days to go through your system. So. So, OK, I got extra energy and lost some weight. Felt better. 

 

[00:44:35] I didn't realize how living against my own personal values. 

 

[00:44:43] So I don't believe in harming animals. I think a lot of people don't. And harming animals is not in line with how I want to live my life. I hadn't realized that that really was a weight on me. And when I wasn't supporting industries that do that, because I always knew it was out there, sure, I wasn't doing the damage to the animals, but I knew it was happening at a new is happening because of my dollars. When I stopped doing that, I really a weight was lifted that I had no idea I was carrying around. And the fact that I didn't have to live with that disconnect, even if I never thought about it, like I never really said to myself, oh, hurray, I'm not part of this factory production today. It wasn't as direct as that. It was just this general like, oh, I, I'm not working against myself every day. And that was a huge lift to have. 

 

[00:45:33] And when you lift those quiet burdens, it's amazing how streamlined every other effort can become. You know, there's so many different philosophers of all Lautz you talked about cutting the river with a knife in the river still runs. The concept is to flow with the river and yet and not completely always try to fight it with these meaningless tools. Anyway, in releasing blockages like that, I think puts us back in that zone of Genius River, whatever you want to call it. 

 

[00:45:57] So I agree. Yeah. And it was bigger than I thought. It was like I hadn't realized how big it wasn't till I actually lifted it from myself. And then I was like, oh, wow, that was heavy. That was that was holding me back. And it was really friction that needed to be there. 

 

[00:46:12] Absolutely. Well, I appreciate everything that you've discussed with us today. 

 

[00:46:17] And I kind of want to leave on that positive note because I love that kind of release of friction. I think we could all use a little bit of light and fluidity with us. And I just want to say thank you so much for speaking with us today. Elizabeth, I really appreciate your time. I know everyone is busy. Everyone's at once got a ton of time, but no time. Everyone's busy, but I. And so I do appreciate you speaking with us and giving us all of your expertize and advice. 

 

[00:46:42] So kind of you I'll just say shout out to all of your listeners. Thank you for caring. Thank you for even being interested in this topic and wanting to discover more. I'll say don't be overwhelmed. Nothing happens in a day. So just take the little baby steps that work for you. Reach out to me if you need any encouragement. And Patricia, I'll say the same to you. 

 

[00:46:59] If I can be a resource for you or help at any time on any subject. You know, just reach out to you. 

 

[00:47:05] I would never look that gift horse in the mouth. We'll be back in touch again. I would not be an offer like that without just taking you read up on it. And I thank you. 

 

[00:47:14] And for everyone listening. We've been speaking with Ekysabeth Alfano. You can contact her on her Web site. Elysabeth Alfano, dot com. And thank you for giving us your time until we speak again next time. 

 

[00:47:27] Remember to eat clean, eat well and always bet on yourself 

Speaking With Kelly Childs, of Kelly's Bake Shoppe

Today we sat down with Kelly Childs. Kelly is one half of the unstoppable mother-daughter team that founded Kelly’s Bake Shoppe, a vegan and gluten-free bake shoppe in Burlington, ON, CANADA. Together, with her daughter Erinn Weatherbie, these two passionate forces have created an empire of healthy living that reaches much farther than just the kitchen.

This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

 

TRANSCRIPTION

[00:00:10] Hi, I'm Patricia. And this is investigating Vegan life with Patricia Kathleen. This series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Our inquiry is an effort to examine the variety of industries and lifestyle tenants in the world of Vegan life. To that end. We will cover topics that have revealed themselves as Kofman and integral when exploring veganism. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. You can find information about myself and my podcast at Patricia Kathleen dot com. Welcome to Investigating Vegan Life. Now let's start the conversation. 

 

[00:01:14] Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I'm sitting down with Kelly Childs. Kelly is an entrepreneur, business owner and cookbook author. Welcome, Kelly. 

 

[00:01:24] Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

 

[00:01:27] Absolutely. For everyone listening, really quickly a Web site on Kelly is, w w w dot Kelly s x o dot com. 

 

[00:01:36] I'm going to read a quick bio on Kelly. But before I do that, a roadmap for today's podcast. We're going to look briefly at Kelly's academic background, her early professional life to kind of garner a sense of where she's coming from. And then we'll unpack a lot of the ventures that she's had with Kelly's bakeshop. She's had two former businesses now sold based around the Vegan industry. And she also has a cookbook called Made with Love Cookbook. And we'll kind of unpack all those endeavors and then we'll get some of Kelly's advice as to the current climate and some of the her Vegan lifestyle choices and any communication that she wants to have between those two. And we're up everything up with the advice that she has for those of you who are looking to get involved with her, as well as any goals that Kelly may have set for herself and or her businesses over the next little while, particularly given that goals are now rampantly changing across all industries. 

 

[00:02:31] A really quick bio on Kelly before I start peppering her with questions. Kelly, is an entrepreneur, healthy lifestyle innovator and visionary, visionary or for a kinder planet. Kelly Childs is one half of the unstoppable mother daughter team that founded Kellie's bakeshop, a vegan and gluten free bake shop in Burlington, Ontario, Canada. Together with her daughter, Erin Weatherbee, these two passionate forces have created an empire of healthy living that reaches much farther than just the kitchen with an extensive social media presence and celebrity like status. Kelly spreads her love of good health and happiness and hopes to help others do the same. A pioneer in the Vegan world, Kelly has created plant based brands. And recipes that have won many awards, including BuzzFeed, that ranked Kelly's bakeshop number three on the list of the top twenty five sweet shops in the world to visit before you die. I love that. With a successful mix of kindness, compassion and love. Kelly has created a positive and all inclusive environment, not just in her business, but also in her everyday connections with people. Kelly Childs is in more than just the cupcake business. She's in the business of creating a kinder planet and one that all sentient beings can be healthier and happier and be more compassionate about themselves and one another. 

 

[00:03:56] So, Kelly, I love that bio at. I think it's so it's one of the first ones I've read where people really get into the ethos of, you know, their philosophical structure of life and your humanitarianism and your empathy. 

 

[00:04:09] All those things really come out. 

 

[00:04:10] And to be ranked the third in the you know, this this BuzzFeed poll of the top twenty five sweet shops in the world to visit before you die. I think that's tombstone worthy. So I can't wait to get into it but before we go there. Well, you paint like a quick background of like your academic background or your health academic background or anything that kind of ties into your Vegan story and professional life that got you to kind of where you are today. 

 

[00:04:36] Gosh. So, I mean, I'm going to say that I'm kind of boring in that I didn't do post-secondary, so I went from high school, like, right into the workforce. And I found myself in the automotive industry and then worked my way up the ranks of doing finance for actually banks, for the automotive industry. So I have a very strong background in finance and really self-taught, if you want to say that. I kind of got thrown into it. And I think back in the day when I graduated from high school, though, it was like 1982. University wasn't a thing as big as, you know, what it is sort of in this day and age, you know. So I just I didn't see the value in going unless I was gonna be a doctor or lawyer. And I went. So let's just go. Street smarts is where it's at. So. So that's all I've done. But I've always lived a very healthy life. So to talk about my health background, my parents are very healthy people. We never had white flour, white sugar in the House. It was just everything was optimally nutritious. And but I never didn't have gluten items. I never had allergy problems. And but I ended up evolving, I guess, when I met my now husband. He was in the restaurant business and he said, I guess it was 2008 when I sort of decided, you know, that I wanted to get into it with him. And I jumped in the kitchen and jumped in with my recipes and jumped in with everything that I had learned from that day forward and got my first taste with it. Then as a family, so my husband, my daughter and her boyfriend at the time, the four of us went down to Farm Sanctuary down in Watkins Glen. And our lives were forever transformed, seeing how the animals had been rescued. It's a beautiful sanctuary. And Jim Bowers, the owner of that and and our lives were forever touched. And we decided at that moment when we left the farm sanctuary driving back to Toronto, we decided to go Vegan and that was it. It was like there was no gray area there. And then also to the farm sanctuary that they had advocated. It's called the China City, written by Colin Campbell. And then I studied with Cornell University. I actually plant based nutrition, one of their courses there, and got into plant based world like big time. And then I started reading about, you know, finding out about the truth of what dairy really does to us and, you know, what butter really does to what eggs really do to us. And I actually felt like I had been so fooled. So that had fueled me to go down that rabbit hole even more. 

 

[00:07:16] Absolutely. So was it. 

 

[00:07:17] I'm wondering, did you combine your knowledge of being in the restaurant business since 2008 and then the advent into, you know, a Vegan lifestyle that sounds like it was developed out of a humanitarian mission, first and foremost with animals and then grew? How did you make the decision to take the all of your Vegan information and then open Kellie's bakeshop in 2012? Was it a natural product like progression or was it a very concise choice? 

 

[00:07:46] Well, I'm going to say that there's probably a little bit of both. We sold the restaurant, canceled his restaurant. My husband did in 2009. We were then free and able to do wanted. We actually moved from Toronto. Out to the Burlington area. And that's where my daughter went to university. And so I thought, jeez, you know what? I've got all this time on my hands. You know, there's passion going through us right now. We're newly Vegan. We want to shout it out to the world. And this beautiful little location came available and it was just so serendipitous. And I just said, you know what, man? Like, we found it, found our place to go and open up this beautiful restaurant. It was just all the all the ducks were folding in a row very, very precisely from selling his restaurant to becoming Vegan to a new location, opening up and had all the time I had to create new recipes. And I was just being so fortified with such a positive energy of this new lifestyle. I really, truly want to share it with the world. And I want to share the truce with the world. These are the things that I was experiencing from reading the China study to Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstyn assistant. All these people that were coming to me now and it was just it was just information that I couldn't deny any longer. It was it was fantastic. 

 

[00:09:01] It's bakeries on their own. I have. So I have a history with them as a as a young college student. But they're a very different industry. 

 

[00:09:08] It's not like a lot of other, you know, cafes or other industries because the baked goods and things like that, they have a different kind of schedule, a different clientele usually, you know, more morning clientele rather than the evenings. I'm not sure how you're running yours, but it's a slightly different tone in the in the food industry. And I'm wondering, was it difficult for you to because you came from a previous food industry, but not necessarily a baking. Did you have any advisers or any help or did you just kind of jump full in and get your feet wet by baptism, by fire? 

 

[00:09:43] So you get some from the restaurant. Our initial restaurant that in 2010 that we opened that when the location came available and I said, that's it. It was the worst kind food came to me. So it was very special. And we opened that and it was a cafe. It was a grocery store. We sold produce. We did bakers. We did a little bit of everything to bar, smoothie bar. And just all the naysayers that were in downtown Burlington. Everyone said, like, good luck with that. This is 2010. So very much into the pioneers of Canada. That veganism and plant based greens, these and stuff were just really emerging in a way. But there was, you know, ninety five ninety percent of the population was still, you know, had not been touched it yet. But what I noticed was. The baked goods that I was creating and I first all started, it was spelt flowers. I actually had not even done gluten free. I did it as an optional sort of thing. And I saw all these people coming in and wanting, you know, I have 12 cupcakes at this. I need a cake for this. I need a couple dozen cookies for this. And before I knew it, I saw that there was this massive demand. I mean, as my show was, it was like a small scale compared to the world. But for us, in our little business, there was a massive demand for the baked goods as well as the cafe part of it. And it daisy, you know, baked goods filling higher, cafe higher. But predominantly there was this there was this incredible joy attached to baked goods. Yeah, and that's what I was told when I was honing in on the smiles and the energy and the emotion that was coming from what I was creating as far as the sweet stuff goes. So that was that was my drawing force. And so it was two years later. And I just actually but a year and a half later, two years later, when we actually found a location. But a year and a half into it, I just said, look at guys like I we can't be doing this any longer because we were using every horizontal spot in the in the restaurant part to make because in the morning, you know, getting in there at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning and then then I was donning another apron for doing the garlic and the onions and the savory stuff, you know, at eight or nine in the morning. It was it was I was burning out. And also to I wasn't filling my soul with, you know, the savory part. And these recipes that I'd been creating were actually coming to me while I was sleeping at night. This is a whole other topic, but I was actually trying to perfect the perfect brownie. And I kept on screwing up and kept on screwing up, and I was asking for some divine guidance in it. And I got to download one night of what I was saying. And from that day forward, when I went into the business and I actually made it and I nailed it. Tears came, of course. I was very excited with what had happened and we won. All these awards are trying to Vegan bake off. We, um, we did year over year. We won best dessert in Toronto. And we we like that was like a magical moment to me and to me that was like a gift from God or universe, whatever you believe in. And and but it was a it was a necessary thing because it brought so much joy to people. Yeah. That's what I see now. 

 

[00:12:56] Absolutely. I want to. So this fortuitous brownie moment, was it. So from after that moment, things just started to come naturally. 

 

[00:13:03] It sounds like it helped you reshape what you were working on. And did you when you started off the endeavor? A lot of times when people become Vegan, they educate themselves and there's there's a pilgrimage, if you will, and to kind of their zone of veganism and where they feel most at peace. And there's I find frequently most guests have this lifelong learning, but it's always, you know, coming to different places along that pilgrimage. And I'm wondering with you, you have this spelt flour and things like this. There's not already this natural division from gluten and a lot of areas that, you know, the first pitstop or pitfall, however you look at it with a lot of early Vegan says this like carbohydrate or gluten overload, you know, words like pasta heaven or they just don't know that the first stop is kind of confusing. It sounds like you guys didn't really stop there. And I'm wondering if you can speak to it that you didn't have as it is child growing up. You said that, but spell flowers a little bit trickier. I've myself, you know, cooked with it and things of that nature. But I want to know how you came on to that. And was it a natural thing just to not have gluten in your in the bakery to begin with? I know that you had kind food and then the Let US Love Cafe. So is it by the time you got to Kelly's bakeshop that you were no longer using gluten, flour, or how did that kind of happen? 

 

[00:14:25] Well, I'll give you that timeline. So we opened kind food in May of 2010, and with six months time, I had decided that we couldn't do gluten any longer because I thought of the demand for it. And then I realized, too, that I couldn't do both because I wasn't honoring the people that were coming in that actually has celiac disease and true gluten intolerances that I didn't want to run the risk of of harming them. So that was a clear thing that we just switched off. And and it was actually really good because, you know, we changed the cafe part to the breads we brought in. All the breads were incredible KINMONT based breads that were, you know, gluten free Vegan and stuff. So that was like that was so easy. Then the location came available, which was bright, beautiful, big location. It was around twenty six hundred square feet for the bakeshop. And I remember being terrified thinking, how are you gonna ever fill up the space? And because it was so big compared to what our restaurant was, our restaurant, that we we like the sales that we had out of that place of a thousand square feet where light would just blow anybody's mind. There was a perpetual line up down down the road every single day. And and it was amazing to maximize that square footage. So when we did the bakeshop, then I thought, oh, my God, are we gonna cannibalize each other? You know, is it gonna be like, you know what? It's gonna rob the other business and stuff? And it's both businesses completely exploded again. Both businesses. The lineups stayed. Kelly Spig Shop on opening day. And that was December 2012. Line up down the street. And I should segway a bit, too, with what happened to kind food. We were served about one year into the business. We were served a cease and desist letter by kind bars and kind bars after us. And we had to do a rebrand and we actually put up a resistance to it for about a year, year and a half. And they just completely money to us because, you know, we just I mean, how does someone, you know, trademark the word kind? Right. And I thought it was a universal thing for all of us to be a part of. But anyways, there were honored because they were obviously threatened by us. And, you know, secondly, it was it was turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to us. And I could just tell you very quickly how this went down, that we hired a few branding, actually three different random companies to come up with a new name for us because that was a stickler was how do you get rid of the weird kind of food that you love so much and being as a new entrepreneur at your baby, you know, and you have to say goodbye to it. And it has a lot of emotion attached to it. Right. One of the first rules is don't get emotional in business. But anyway, so what I did was I locked myself into the second floor of the bake shop. And this isn't we were in business at the. But six months of 2013, when we finally gave up the name and I decided I had to forgive them. I had to forgive Kinder's. I had to forgive them. So I was sitting there and I was just let us love everybody, let us love, let us love. And I'm just praying to like, loving and giving. And then I went, oh, my God, let us love cafe. The plan where is the head of lettuce is love. And it was just perfect. Anyways, when we did the rebrand, our sales went up. It was this hour what I something like 78 percent, like it was just overnight. It was like we were holding ourselves back to the universe, was trying to give to us. And I so believe in this, the serendipitous this this way that we are being talked to as sometimes we don't want to trust our intuition and we block ourselves off. And I've learned how to use to listen to these words and these messages that are coming through us mail all the time. And it has served me so well, incredibly. 

 

[00:18:17] I love that. I love the story. So now drum dried out for me is let us love cafe now sold. 

 

[00:18:24] Is it part of Kelly's bakeshop? So what what happened with the sale of that? And then you opened Kellie's bakeshop in 2012. Was that before or after you sold. Let us. 

 

[00:18:35] OK. So yeah, it's kind of confusing everybody, I guess. But Kellie's bakeshop opened in December 2012 and kind food was still in existence. Then we did the rebrand for kinda food running into Let US Love Cafe in the fall of 2013 and we sold Most Love in June 2017. So we kept it still for four more years after we did the rebrand. Remarkable. So it's still an amazing it's a still busy place. 

 

[00:19:02] What made you what was the impetus for this sale? Is it an expansion of Kellie's bakeshop? Are you are you doing other things with your future? 

 

[00:19:10] Yes. So so this is exactly it is we realize that our focus was becoming too diluted between two brands. And I solely really wanted to honor where I know where my heart has been and wants to be is with Kellie's bakeshop. So right now, we're actually speaking to two different parties about doing a very big expansion of the big shop and it coming into potentially the US as well. And it would be like multiple locations. So we're we're excited about doing this. So I think, you know, the pandemic has not been an opportune time for many small businesses and even us to we're on hold. I had to lay off or myself or my daughter. We had to lay off thirty two staff. And so, you know, people do believe that we have that kind of staffing as it's quite large and we have approximately 12000 customers a week that come through the door. So we did close the doors on St. Patrick's Day. We're 17th. And so it's been a little over a month and it's been one of the hardest months of my life. And it's funny when you identify so much with your business. Right. And all of a sudden you identify as like your identity. You know, you're you're you're very much ingrained in your business when you have to surrender to a greater power over yourself. And while the doors to close it was very different, I sobbed. I saw it for quite a few days. And just in grief. You know, you're grieving the loss of your child in a way. And I just know, like I've come through on the other side and now there's this full acceptance. And I actually feel like I've needed this month to reorganize where I'm heading now, you know? So we we're very grateful as much as we've lost a whole bunch of money. We're very grateful for where we are right now. 

 

[00:21:09] Well, I think it's interesting, too. There has been a lot of I've not spoken to a small business owner in the past eight weeks that hasn't taken this opportunity to requestion and pivot if necessary. 

 

[00:21:21] And that's, you know, it's awesome. It's awesome to take a rough situation that no one asked for and and to do some really proactive things out of it. I'm wondering, I see now, even with more of the corporate environment doing this by small businesses from the get go used to do this. And I'm wondering if you're implementing it as well, which is this social conversation, because small businesses are such an intimate experience with their customers and clients of all sorts. And I'm wondering if you have thought about implementing in any kind of a marketing aspect or otherwise the conversation, you know, about the pandemic, about the future, about any of those aspects, uncertainty, health. I mean, you're you know, you're your shop is promoting, you know, what is is provably a healthier lifestyle while still enjoying that, you know, wonderful engagement of sweets and different things like that. And I'm wondering if you guys have thought about in your looking at what you're doing with your shop, if you engage with your customers or clients, even right now on social media. Do you address the pandemic covered 19 by name? Have you chosen to look at all those areas? 

 

[00:22:29] Well, yeah, we're we're very we're very transparent business and we're very open. I tend to be maybe sometimes too open and I wear my heart on my sleeve, but I also wear my truth on my sleeve, too. And very openly, like my social media channel, Aaron's got our own two. And then we've also got the bakeshop. So we look after the three of them. We also have a podcast, too. It's called Cupcake's and Consciousness. So there's these four channels that we're looking after all the time and very much an advocate of positivity and. And I have a pretty good fan base that they look to me almost every day, actually, for true guidance of how to navigate through this Koven 19 to come out on the other side of Gross to take this time right now for introspection and evolve. And then what I say more often than not get shared on the Kellie's Bakeshop Channel, which is at Kellie's sake if anybody is looking down. So we, we intertwine our personal life with the business and we just share always positivity on Keli's bakeshop. We haven't. My daughter's the expert now, too, on social media because we put all of our teams on hold right now. So she's been doing this social media for it. And we have every single day we have still a whole series of maybe five to 10 stories, Instagram stories we've been posting every day. Erin and I go live as well. We go live on Facebook and we go live on Instagram once or twice a week. So those are always out there. Like we're always bring our customers and our you know, our customers like, I don't know, like I want to call them our friends that are our family, you know, up with us. So because I'm just a firm believer that we, you know, we individually can't rise up, we have to be looking to our brothers and sisters, our family. Everyone has to come together. And this is this is our transformation right now that's happening on the planet. And then I think that this is where business has to be, because when we come out of this on the other side, what ever it's going to look like? No, if we're going to have an economic collapse, we don't know if we're going to go into a depression. We don't know if we're going to hit the ground running and go, wow, like, you know what? It wasn't that long. And we got, you know, all the, you know, the government injections that were necessary to keep our businesses fortified, to take us out on the other side. A lot of fear. And and for myself, I'm just trying to instill in people that that we either live in fear or we live in love and to live in fear. We're not making great decisions for ourself. And so how do we move through our life right now with such love and gratitude, such reverence for being able to be on the planet right now in this great awakening that we're going through? Because that's what that's what I'm calling it. To me, it is a great awakening of what we're experiencing. And it's like everything's happening at once. The economy, a pandemic, the planet is changed to. The sun is changing. All these frequencies are changing for us. And and and what an honor it is to be a part of this incredible show. 

 

[00:25:39] Yeah. And to reflect that, we've had a we've had a remarkable history as a species and as a continent, as you and I share the same continent of survival through, you know, through tough times. And it's good to remember that that's where that kind of grit comes from. I think that it's interesting as a Vegan business owner, because as you so eloquently kind of covered, there's this small business owner and community member responsibilities and all of these emotions happening. But then further, as a Vegan, you know, I've spoken with a lot of people. I call them unlikely vegans because these are the people that kind of chose a vegan lifestyle that you wouldn't have normally thought it was not a normal trajectory for them. These outliers that are now becoming vegans for a variety of reasons, health, things of that nature, age and disease, and they're seeking out the vegan lifestyle. But a lot of these people have said that they know the pandemic is a very interesting concept for them, aside from tragedy and life loss, because they feel as though it's it's kind of recalibrating how people are looking at health and not just the wet markets. And I don't want to get into the controversy of wherever one thought thinks the crunch of various started and all of that. Like, I'll leave that aside, but just re examining health and and what we take for granted and how we look at it and health care systems and even getting all the way back down to, you know, food, which is is is a medicine. It's our original fuel and it's the most powerful medicine and it's the most powerful cure. And people believe that this is it is kind of naturally filtering that concept through people that might not have thought about it until sickness or something like that came upon them. And I'm wondering if you've kind of had any thought with that about how it might burgeon. You know, the industry out there with you have you look towards a new horizon where more people are educated or likewise or consequently thought about educating people more who could be more curious about veganism. 

 

[00:27:36] Certainly. So I I couldn't agree more. I think that there's this there's this awakening of how we are nurturing the vehicle that gets us around. So the humanness, our humanness is human body that's housing our spirit. Right. And and and how are we going to live? Either we're going to live in pain and suffering or we're going to live in tremendous joy with an optimal life. And maybe, you know what? We're gonna get this gift that we could to live to 110 and we sort of play soccer till that age, you know. So for myself like this this week in particular, actually, I put up a really cool smoothie recipe on Kelly Chiles dot com. So that's my. Another website of mine. And and it's a heavy metal detox smoothie. And it was inspired to me from medium. I don't know if you've heard of Anthony Bloom or not, but he's a great guy. And I've I've been battling myself now with with a chronic virus in my body for about two years. So it's something that's like in my sinuses, I feel fatigued. And and I came down with it about two years ago. And then it was just so weird to me because I would feel good for a week and then I'd feel like crap again, like a week later. And and I would just constantly going these cycles. And, you know, I went to a doctor a couple times and they said, oh, yeah, you've got an allergy, you know, take this puffer steroids or something. And I just don't do pharmaceuticals. I just I just don't I don't I go to a natural path and everyone has sort of been sort of stumped with this thinking maybe it's a steam bar or something like that. Anyways, I discovered Anthony Williams medical medium in October, and he's a plant based. And so I've been doing celery juice and then had a mental detox smoothie with wild blueberries and all this beautiful stuff. And once I posted it, it kind of went viral as though people are. And this is just to add what you're asking about and people, you know, getting more introspective. They've got this time on their hands and they're home now and they realize that they can't live on potato chips and say Kraft dinner and, you know, McCain's deep chest freezer cakes or something like whatever it is. And and they're wanting to take their life and their health to another level. And I believe that our mind, body and soul are connected. And so, like we saying to us that there's multiple reasons why we go Vegan. And it could be for ethical reasons, of course, we don't want the animals to suffer. But a lot of people are blind to that. Some people just want it for their health. And they've been told maybe by their doctors or health reasons that, you know, they they've got coronary heart disease or, you know, there is diabetes in their family or their cancer or something. And someone told him that Vegan is going to be better for them and also for myself. I understand that we ingest the suffering of the animals. So when an animal is killed and it would not be to their choice. And if an animal is raised with suffering as well, too, and very disgusting, horrible, filthy, incomprehensible situations, they are S.A.M. and beings. Pigs have the intelligence of a six year old. I mean, we can go on and on with this kind of debate right now. And it's like there they are, real human stories. I should rephrase that. Rumor has it that there are you know, humans are incarnate sometimes through animals. So I don't want to jump to that. We don't have to talk about that. But animals there are there. They are soulful and and and who are we to to impose the pain on them? Who are we as these dominant species that we humans can be awful people where we're awful. Our species is awful. We're the only species that kills for the the joy of it. We're we're killing to eat the we'd let them live in barbaric situations. And it's just that that energy we ingest. You know, and so there's this there's this cleansing that's happening right now. There's this if we are wanting to ascend and to become all we need to be on planet Earth as as incredibly beautiful human sentient beings like, we can't keep killing the animals for us to eat. We can't keep on doing this. And I'm not that big an activist. I want to clear that up. I am not. And I've actually had an errand. I both have a daughter and I have both had Vegan activism pointed at us because, B, we have not decided to partake in that solidarity within Vegan activism movements because we've just been lovers. We have not been haters. We have not been judges. And we like that's just how we've rolled and how we've we've grown our business, I believe, to such a success. And I don't mean a success. That has to be monetary. I mean a success that we have so many people that come through our doors and they realize after the fact that we're Vegan they they realized after the fact there was no eggs and there is no dairies and it's right in the cupcakes or their their brownies or the, you know, the cookies and stuff in the food that they eat. And. And that was always my thing, was sharing the love first and the all inclusiveness first and let them get wowed with the love. And then oh by the way, you know, it's Vegan and. And that has what has worked for us tenfold. But it's bothered an awful lot of Vegan big and activists. And many times they've reached out to us too, to do in protest. And they've wanted to do protests in front of our business. And there there's a couple of times that I've had to actually ask them to leave our property because it was horrifying, the people that were in our business. And it was just it was just not how we roll. Yeah. 

 

[00:33:16] So, yeah, you're not gazetting if you're not upsetting somebody. I'm not sure you're doing it right. You know, as they say, someone's going to be a little unhappy. And I think everyone deserves their own path, you know, and Vegan should should get that ahead of everybody else. But again, you know, I think you're always going to get someone with a differing opinion. And I'm lucky enough and proud enough to be in a country that, you know, encourages diverse opinions. So I think that life begins judging, judging other vegans. Every religious political group in the world does it, too. So I do think it's a little ironic when you have something that's developed out of compassion and humanitarianism to kind of turn inwards and fight is is a bit rough. But I do I do see that happening a lot of times, especially when I talk to people about their Vegan journey. I want to end with talking about your cookbook. It's called Made with Love. It's 50 recipes of sweet and 50 of savory. It's written in collaboration with your daughter, Aaron. And it came out in 2016. And it's a bestselling cookbook. And I can't wait to get into. 

 

[00:34:23] How did you decide on your baby's the 50 and 50 that you were going to put in there? And given that the smoothie recipe that you've just posted is kind of taken over the world? 

 

[00:34:33] Which ones do you get a lot of feedback from your cookbook, like very favorite recipes that you've put in there. 

 

[00:34:40] So, yeah. So how did you decide it was it was kind of a we want to pick our best sellers that were from our beautiful kind through days that was like kind of just throwing it out there, too, and supporting the love and the the baby that we birthed from the beginning. So we chose basically all the recipes from there. I don't know if we excluded anything from like the bootable to our Caesar salad dressing like people's love, it's made with cashews and stuff. So we we infused the savory and the sweet through it. And the red velvet cupcake, I'm going to say, is one of the more popular ones. And I Teppei Ribbon is in there. And and, you know, because this book is about how do I say this? It's a very easy book. So to me, it's not like a complicated book where, you know, you're going to need multiple levels of ingredients from it. Everything is homemade, though. You know, this everything is from scratch. But it's a book that I think why it turned out to be such a great selling book is that it's relatable. And we talk about our story in there, too. And it's just it's just it's just a total feel good book. I think that people love it, too. Even Mother's Day coming up. It's one of those books that daughters like to give their moms and moms like to give their daughters because it's written by mom, a daughter. So there's a there's a beautiful feel about that, too. And, yeah, I don't know, like. I'm going to say that, yes, you're right, that that smoothy that's gone viral right now, too, like we've got to incorporate that, too, in our next book that we're doing. And that book is going to come out in spring 2021. And we're really excited about it because it's some it's kind of going to be every favorite that you wanted from the Made with Love book from 2016. It's now going to be included in this next book. So, yeah. Because we did go back a couple because we went. Well, then we're going to go out of business. Everyone's just going to go and copy our recipes. But it anyways, it is it's it's been it's been so well received. And because people are on lockdown right now. It is circulating. And I was joking with with so many of the fans and people that have been sharing their recipes online, they're taking pictures of everything they're cooking. So wouldn't that be amazing if it came back again as another bestseller? Right. You know, it did a revival four years later. So you never know. 

 

[00:37:04] Absolutely. From your lips to the universe's ears. Fantastic. 

 

[00:37:10] Well, I wanted to ask you, wrapping everything up for anybody who is listening to your story, any part of it from being a small business owner to being a Vegan, to being, you know, a woman, a female identified in any way anyone like that right now in the during this time period. What is a thought? Like the top three pieces of advice or mantras that you give yourself on a regular basis to kind of keep everything cool. You know, everything encouraged and motivated. 

 

[00:37:43] I mean, I do a daily twice a day, actually practice of meditation. I think it's very important to tune in to the space and. And just just tune into another frequency and get get our our head out of our head. If you want to call it that. We have to get our thoughts out of our head and into the space that can create all this goodness for us. And I think that right now, I think it's OK. You got to give yourself permission to be OK. I think there's many of us that feel guilty right now. Maybe trying to be happy and trying to be positive and almost feeling guilty because we really shouldn't, because the world's in a pandemic and no people are getting sick from this. And that sort of thing. And I think that for myself, that's what we need to rethink that. And because I think that our vibration is what's going to bring our our planet downward if we stay in that fear mode. And I think we just have to just be so kind to ourselves and just say, you know, it's okay for me to feel OK. Give yourself permission to to to feel OK right now. And that would be some words right now of wisdom from myself, from this global situation that we're in. 

 

[00:38:58] Perfect. I love it. Meditation, daily meditation and self permission to be OK. Those are awesome. I completely agree. 

 

[00:39:04] And I try to remind myself daily that, you know, from the moment I saw Yo-Yo Ma starting his movement of online music in collaboration of sharing to the Italian opera singer in the apartment building complex, there's there's a lot of beauty and humanity that we were not given voice to because there were a lot of other things going on and being able to harness back in on those and redefine who we are, as, you know, as it as a as a species throughout some of those beautiful lenses. It's an opportunity and I completely agree with you to giving yourself permission to find that beauty and revel in it and be OK with it is is just as important as having compassion for the pain and suffering. Happening right now, I want to say thank you so much, Kelly. I really appreciate you coming on today. I love your pearls of wisdom, your candor. And I know for everyone listening, I'm going to have Kelly back on our other podcast, which is Patricia. Kathleen speaks with female entrepreneurs and industry experts so that we can get some of her back story on a much more business focused angle. But today, I really appreciate all of your Vegan advice and your story, Kelly and I. I hope that the future is swift and that your shop bug opens back up and I will pop in and grab a cupcake. 

 

[00:40:23] I would love that. I would love that. Thank you so much for having me. 

 

[00:40:26] Thank you. 

 

[00:40:26] And for everyone listening, thank you for giving us your time today. And until we speak again next time, eat well, eat clean and be safe.